Rage Quits and v1.1 of Demigod talk

Excellent ideas, however I'd like to make a suggestion with

Rage Quits
If a person quits the game without the team concede and the game lasts more than 10 minutes longer, that person gets a rage quit. In the connection dialog, that person’s rage quitting percentage will be displayed as “Disconnect %”. Players with a high Disconnect % will likely get booted in lobbies and will be put further back in line for skirmish and pantheon games.

Instead of having the system automated, which will limit it's usefulness, when a player quits the members of their Team should receive a small Vote dialogue asking if the player unfairly left the game. If the majority of the surviving members vote 'Yes' than the player is penalised with a Disconnect mark against them.
If a person needs to leave for personal reasons, such as an emergency, then informs his Team Mates and leaves - and they continue to play afterwards - he is punished despite that the Team was completely kept in the loop.

Just a quick thought.

Quoting DeadMG,

reply 11

I think the fact that people RQ in droves is a demonstration that the game is decided far too early. Demigod kills give half a trillion times too much gold, and the game is over after the first few. A couple of kills early on can easily be a new armor or mana item, which is far too much. That's assuming you're not saving and didn't buy both, or HoL.

When people RQ, you should ask yourself why they feel that the game is no longer worth continuing, and try to deal with that first.

+1

Quoting lukkas_ROCKUS,

reply 22

I promise i will rage quit everytime my DG dies or loses a kill because of the ability attack bug.

And you, you're the target demographic also. It kinda makes sense that you aren't jazzed about the idea: you're the one we're weeding out.

Funny that i didn't ever quit a game before, even if the game was lost or my team mate was replaced by retarded AI. My point was about the damn ability bug and the need to fix it once and for all, but you missed it...

I think that the disconnect stats should either decay over time, or be reset periodically. That way, if some ragequitter turns over a new leaf, or someone improves their connection, they won't have a permanent stigma.

Quoting hoogamaphone,

reply 3

I think that the disconnect stats should either decay over time, or be reset periodically. That way, if some ragequitter turns over a new leaf, or someone improves their connection, they won't have a permanent stigma.

Yes!!! I like the idea of decay over time.

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 1

If a person quits the game without the team concede and the game lasts more than 10 minutes longer, that person gets a rage quit. In the connection dialog, that person’s rage quitting percentage will be displayed as “Disconnect %”. Players with a high Disconnect % will likely get booted in lobbies and will be put further back in line for skirmish and pantheon games.
Instead of having the system automated, which will limit it's usefulness, when a player quits the members of their Team should receive a small Vote dialogue asking if the player unfairly left the game. If the majority of the surviving members vote 'Yes' than the player is penalised with a Disconnect mark against them.
If a person needs to leave for personal reasons, such as an emergency, then informs his Team Mates and leaves - and they continue to play afterwards - he is punished despite that the Team was completely kept in the loop.

Just a quick thought.

This is perfection.

Quoting TeroBlackWolf,

reply 11

Little idea for people sharing this little::

"It generally takes me much longer than 3 minutes before I realize my team is full of noobs and I don't want to play with them."

How about you just dont quit? Why not stick around and try to teach the newbies how to play the game better--I mean seriously, how the hell else will casual players/people who just don't learn that fast, pick up on the better points of playing?

I know I'm not very good at playing this game yet--so I ask tons of questions while I play because I, thankfully, have a fast typing speed. Sometimes I get answers, sometimes I get flamed, and somtimes complete lamers just leave when I start asking questions.

If you want a better player base--help the noobs, stop being noobs--what a novel idea. ¬¬

Just my two bits.

-T

This is quite possibly the greatest thing I have ever heard. When I first started playing, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. Instead of people giving me pointers, all I got in text chat were comments similar to "fuck you you suck," "you're so noob," "uninstall." I'm not the best at the game now, I still have a lot to improve, but if people were more inclined to help me when I first started I could have gotten better more quickly and been less motivated to rage quit.

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 1

Excellent ideas, however I'd like to make a suggestion with

quoting postRage Quits
If a person quits the game without the team concede and the game lasts more than 10 minutes longer, that person gets a rage quit. In the connection dialog, that person’s rage quitting percentage will be displayed as “Disconnect %”. Players with a high Disconnect % will likely get booted in lobbies and will be put further back in line for skirmish and pantheon games.
Instead of having the system automated, which will limit it's usefulness, when a player quits the members of their Team should receive a small Vote dialogue asking if the player unfairly left the game. If the majority of the surviving members vote 'Yes' than the player is penalised with a Disconnect mark against them.
If a person needs to leave for personal reasons, such as an emergency, then informs his Team Mates and leaves - and they continue to play afterwards - he is punished despite that the Team was completely kept in the loop.

Just a quick thought.

PLEASE THIS! Its obvious when someone rage quits.

Quoting Andianqz,

reply 8

I find this idea terrible personally. It generally takes me much longer than 3 minutes before I realize my team is full of noobs and I don't want to play with them. But if I get a bunch of disconnect% I will be kicked from lobbies-- so I won't be able to play.. despite having purchased the game =/. So now, in situations where I currently would leave and be able to play another game and enjoy demigod I will be stuck. First thing that comes to my mind will be that I'll hit the concede button, afk and alt tab and do something else. It feels like that would ruin the game all the same-- but it's the only way I can continue to play demigod in the future, lest I be branded with a scarlet letter. Or if I have nothing else to do and want to play another match I will just feed the opponent until we are hopelessly outmatched and my team finally gives up and concedes. Doesn't sound great either.

It's people like you this proposed system is specifically designed to deal with. Demigod would be better off without you as your behavior is completely self serving and ruins the fun of the other 3-7 people. A more thoughtful player in your position would realize organizing with other skilled players is the solution that doesn't ruin the game. Since you can't handle the risks a pug brings, why put yourself in that spot?

I do realize there are flaws with the proposed system. Some tweaks are needed, the mass disconnect/game splitting must be solved, but players like you deserve a special stat that lets me know I don't want you on my team.

All this noob crap makes me ill. Keep it up with that nonsense and alienate yourself from about 99.9 percent of the gaming public and marginalize your opinion. I am not going to spend 168 hours a week playing Demigod just so that I can join a game without being bombarded with messages from kids about how lame I am.

Here is what I will do, and when I say "I" henceforth I mean the general gaming public. I will play this videogame with you and attempt to have fun with you the best I can. If I am met with hostility then I won't care to play the game. If I don't care to play the game then you and your tiny minority can have the game to yourselves. Good luck with that.

While this is a good idea in principle, I would have preferred the game was made more stable before peple started getting punished for "disconnecting". Ive crashed to desktop and desynced a number of times through no fault of my own.

Quoting bloodcornking,

reply 8

All this noob crap makes me ill. Keep it up with that nonsense and alienate yourself from about 99.9 percent of the gaming public and marginalize your opinion. I am not going to spend 168 hours a week playing Demigod just so that I can join a game without being bombarded with messages from kids about how lame I am.

Here is what I will do, and when I say "I" henceforth I mean the general gaming public. I will play this videogame with you and attempt to have fun with you the best I can. If I am met with hostility then I won't care to play the game. If I don't care to play the game then you and your tiny minority can have the game to yourselves. Good luck with that.

What a narrow opinion. Surely you can see there is room for both new and casual players as well as the hardcore players? This isn't an issue with gamers it's a design issue. Some people DO want to play this game seriously and competitively, who are you to say they can shove the game for wanting this? I feel that YOU have the right to enjoy casual games. I have the right to enjoy SKILLED games, we both take different things from DG and gaming. What you don't seem to understand that players' preference for play style isn't the flaw here, it's the game design that does not cater to new players.

You say that the 'noob crap' is makign you ill but it's a simple fact that there are players who will crush a whole team of new players. All I'm asking for is the ability to differentiate between these groups so people can play with other's of similar skill/incilations.

But you go ahead and quit the game and blame everyone else... I'm sure that helps us all so much.

Thank you SD and GPG for listening to the community on this issue.

Quoting Vladesch,

reply 9

While this is a good idea in principle, I would have preferred the game was made more stable before peple started getting punished for "disconnecting". Ive crashed to desktop and desynced a number of times through no fault of my own.

With these new rules I know at least 5 decent players that would be getting punished because they have had crashes. What an awesome idea GPG.

quoting post

Rage Quits

If a person quits the game without the team concede and the game lasts more than 10 minutes longer, that person gets a rage quit. In the connection dialog, that person’s rage quitting percentage will be displayed as “Disconnect %”. Players with a high Disconnect % will likely get booted in lobbies and will be put further back in line for skirmish and pantheon games.

I don't like that idea at all, if I play with idiots, I'm going to leave because I don't wanna torture myself playing a game to the end with a guy that dies every 2 minutes and why should I get punished if that game goes on for another 10minutes after I quit, that doesn't even make sense, how am I supposed to know how long it will go on before I leave.

Scenario: I'm playing a 3vs3 and 20 mins into the game it's clear that we will lose. I'm an experienced player admitting defeat and really have better things to do (e.g. playing another game perhaps) than being slaughtered in the coming minutes.

So I start a Team Concede vote but my teammates are either new or want to continue playing. Now I have two choices:
1) Quit and increase Disconnect%
2) Idle in the game and do some other stuff like watching tv

I bet many people will choose option 2. This probably helps the enemy more than an AI player so my intention of a quick loss is coming closer.

The early quits are a good thing, some people just don't get it that torrent+demigod just doesnt work with their 64kbit line...

Questions:

1) What happens when all players disconnect? Do we still have to slaughter the AI or does the game finally end with a win? This will probably not happen very often after the concede option is implemented but it can.

2) What if in a Team Conce vote the result is 50%? (in a 2v2 or 4vs4) What about abstains?

Quoting Techubus,

reply 7

Quoting Andianqz, reply 8I find this idea terrible personally. It generally takes me much longer than 3 minutes before I realize my team is full of noobs and I don't want to play with them. But if I get a bunch of disconnect% I will be kicked from lobbies-- so I won't be able to play.. despite having purchased the game =/. So now, in situations where I currently would leave and be able to play another game and enjoy demigod I will be stuck. First thing that comes to my mind will be that I'll hit the concede button, afk and alt tab and do something else. It feels like that would ruin the game all the same-- but it's the only way I can continue to play demigod in the future, lest I be branded with a scarlet letter. Or if I have nothing else to do and want to play another match I will just feed the opponent until we are hopelessly outmatched and my team finally gives up and concedes. Doesn't sound great either.

It's people like you this proposed system is specifically designed to deal with. Demigod would be better off without you as your behavior is completely self serving and ruins the fun of the other 3-7 people. A more thoughtful player in your position would realize organizing with other skilled players is the solution that doesn't ruin the game. Since you can't handle the risks a pug brings, why put yourself in that spot?

I do realize there are flaws with the proposed system. Some tweaks are needed, the mass disconnect/game splitting must be solved, but players like you deserve a special stat that lets me know I don't want you on my team.

It's not your place to decide who deserves to play or does not deserve to play this game. Anyone with 40 bucks deserves to play this game I would think. If it were up to me, I would like to hit skirmish and be matched with equally skilled players in 2-3 minutes. But we all know that doesn't happen. So we all do what we can to control the situation and join custom games that are in our area and preferably labeled something along the lines of 'pros only'. We all know that doesn't really work super well either. So rather than spending time on tuning match making, the devs spend time designing a more or less flawed system to punish players who are trying to simply find a match to play. If I host a "3v3 pros only west coast" game and I get laggy noobs, then the match making failed. I would leave and go try again; that seems completely logical to me. In fact, this shouldn't even happen in the first place; with all the online games out there I'm sure these guys had plenty of examples of working ladder systems. So I'm already being punished as it is to set up the match I want to play. We've all been there where between disconnects, lobby connection issues, and bad players it takes 20-30 minutes to finally get the game we wanted to play to actually get started. Now on top of that I'm going to have to watch out not to get branded as a communist and blacklisted for simply doing the legwork that the software isn't.

We're on the same side here, so let's not get into finger pointing and broad generalization. I'm sure you would not like being labeled as a 'people like you'. We should focus on discussing ways to simplify and improve games and matchmaking. So tell me, do you never find yourself in the above scenario? I think a lot of people do; there are plenty of "remake" titles in custom games. Come 1.1, all those remake players are gonna get a disconnect%. Maybe not every time, but sooner or later they'll leave at 3 min 10 seconds, and a couple guys will stay and farm favor and they'll get a disconnect%. Play enough games and those disconnect% are bound to unfairly stigmatize people towards you. This system is going to complicate and frustrate players who are looking for a game. At the same time, it really won't stop individuals from ruining your game. All the negative activities I listed above are incredibly common in dota and WoW. And they are going to be common here too, once players aren't able to leave games they find unenjoyable.

Custom games are custom and Pantheon games should be all the same.

But here's an idea for skirmish: let the user pick a criterion for joining a game. I suspect most people quit because they don't like a particular setting, so why not try to address that?

Have criteria like:

- must play/avoid DG X;

- must play/avoid map X;

- must play/avoid gametype X;

- must play/avoid XvX game.

And let the user pick just one of the above. Additionally, the user should be able to (optionally) select something like "wait 1/5/10/15/infinite minutes and if no such game is found, join anything". Alternatively, the same rules as the ones for custom games can be used.

I think doing it this way lets many players avoid something they really want to avoid.

Quoting Andianqz,

reply 15

We're on the same side here, so let's not get into finger pointing and broad generalization.

I don't think you're on the same side with everybody else if you buy a MP game and expect/demand to play by your own rules.

I hope the stats will be reset.
I have atleast 20 disconnects from desyncs.
I have atleast 30 disconnects from games I dropped from "Player has left the game"
I quit atleast 20 games, where someone was replace by AI in the first few minutes or didnt even load the game or there was horrable lag.

Also, I've been playing since the beta.

I do believe this is a step in the right direction, but I dont think this will resolve any game related issues. Now players will just idle out the loss, which is completly pointless again. You simply cannot force people to play with noobs or a game they dont wan't to. It will not work. Also personally I feel its a waste of time. Concede should work with 2/3 team vote or with N-1 votes, so no minority can change the vote.

Can I suggest an "abandon game" option? The problem is what to do about games where someone else (and especially multiple people) rage quits, leaving the rest with a somewhat pointless game. Rather than one team having to concede and presumably recording a loss, if a majority of remaining players on both teams agree, the game would end with no penalty to either side.

Also, please please please put the replacement AI for quitters on Nightmare. This would make rage quitting much less of a issue for the remaining players, although obviously it's not ideal.

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 1

Instead of having the system automated, which will limit it's usefulness, when a player quits the members of their Team should receive a small Vote dialogue asking if the player unfairly left the game. If the majority of the surviving members vote 'Yes' than the player is penalised with a Disconnect mark against them.

that would really be the best way imo

Quoting Creep666,

reply 20

Quoting ZehDon, reply 1

Instead of having the system automated, which will limit it's usefulness, when a player quits the members of their Team should receive a small Vote dialogue asking if the player unfairly left the game. If the majority of the surviving members vote 'Yes' than the player is penalised with a Disconnect mark against them.

that would really be the best way imo

I've got a better idea... what about... creating a chat room and allowing premades? 2-3-4-5 people joins together in a party before launching the match up, that would remove the ragequitting, would increase the number of subscribers, lets be real, chat = more people fooling around when they are tired... and more people having something to do while waiting for a game to start, I really hate waiting till a match starts... So chat while looking for match would be great and team joining aswell...

Thanks

EDIT: and it would also increase competitive play and the creation of guild/clans (which also reminds me that a guild system or allowing us to easily create a second account or rename ours would help a lot)

EDIT: also you can either choose to create 2 different pools of gamers, one for pugs and one for premades or face premades vs premades and pugs vs pugs, only allowing pug to face premades when the they have been on the queue for a set amount (lets say 3 min)

The fact is that if you're clearly the best on your team, and you've already lost, then why stick around?

You know, I think this discussion highlights the primary issue with the online community in general. There are two camps - people who play to have fun, and people who play to prove they're better than other people.

You're only going to make one camp happy, really.

The problem from the business stand point is that the people who play to prove they're better than other people will tend to spend more money, but they're more fickle and want things exactly their way -- and will threaten and scream if they don't get it. The people who play to have fun are much more relaxed about the whole thing, but they're not as willing to pay up. So, companies have to choose between the play experience, and cash flow in the long run.

I suppose the only real solution (and I don't know if Demigod's infrastructre can handle it, and the business model can stand it) is to create two separate server pools - one for the 'game' camp, and one for the 'compete' camp, with rules optimized for each one. And make it clear in the multiplayer selection process that, depending on which server farmer you subscribe to, you're either going to game, or you're going to compete.

That fractures the gaming community, but, from reading this (and other threads), the game community is already fractured in terms of viewpoint as to what they want to get out of multiplayer, and there isn't going to be significant movement from those views. (At least, there hasn't been since Quake came on the scene, all those years ago...) So, while I applaud GPG and Stardock for once again trying to break the paradigm, in this case, I think reality is just too overwhelming.

To quote the latest xkcd -- people are complicated.

JGH

This isnt about making any one group happy or even passing judgement. Its about providing information so that people can more accurately choose the type of players they want in their game.

The pro-rage-quit crowd can play games with people with high %'s

those of us who prefer not to play with rage-quitters can choose not to play with those people.

All I want is the option to know what kind of player I am gaming with before I commit 30mins+ of my time not to mention the 5-10+minutes of lobby time. If its not important to you then ignore it and play with other high percentage people who wont care about you being in their lobby. I dont see the problem.

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