Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more

By Frogboy on August 15, 2010 2:31:13 PM from

There’s been a lot of discussion on these kinds of topics on recent games and I thought I’d give you our perspective on it.

No Copy Protection

Elemental, out of the box, like all of Stardock’s other games, has no copy protection whatsoever. However, you obviously need Internet access to get updates. But then, why should this be necessary?

Because Elemental, unlike our previous games, has really been designed to be a game that people can play for decades, this is something that has concerned us. Because we want to encourage people to have the latest version but at the same time, we are aware that some people are worried that 10 years from now, they won’t be able to get the “better” version.

So here is what we’re going to start doing on our developed titles: We’re going to start making archival DVD versions of the game that can be sent to customers. We already do this with Object Desktop (our most popular non-game product). This archival version would have no copy protection whatsoever. It would just be a DVD you can put into your machine.

So starting in October, what we will do is make archival DVD editions of our games starting with Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition and Elemental. Roughly every year or so, if there have been updates, we’ll create a new archival version of the game that people can have sent to them (it’ll just be a DVD).

LAN Games

There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends. Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle.

#1 You’ll need to install Impulse on the machines that will be playing the game. But that’s all. Just install and go to step 2.

#2 Go to http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com which is the web interface to Impulse. From here, you would download the web package of Elemental. As long as Impulse is installed on the machine, you can install the game.

#3 When you install, type in your serial #. If it’s on a LAN, just use your single DVD key, Impulse::Reactor’s GOO uses smart activation (i.e. it doesn’t have a “activation limit” type system) so you can just install it on the various machines on your LAN.

#4 When your friends come over to play, they will need, once in the game, to logon with their own accounts (so they or someone will have to provide them with a serial # to attach to their account but they can use it at your LAN in game). This is because on day 0, the data from the game is handled by our servers (this way, when we update the game data for balancing players don’t have to update their game which would be a real hassle for LAN players). Eventually we plan to release custom servers so that players can make their own stuff but we won’t have that ready at release.

+892 Karma | 434 Replies

Ahh ok Frog. I understand that and no issues with that whatsoever. Basically, with my serial number I can put it onto my laptop and desktop and not have to buy another then, if im reading it right. But that computer would still need Impulse to run it then, or is that only for Multi and updating? I did notice when you play the beta 4 that it had an update feature on it. Ive actually played around a bit with Impulse and like what it does. Do you see the future of buying games going like this then? If you dont mind me asking.

You need to purchase the game once per player. It's in your EULA. Does no one even read those? -.-

It just doesn't have any copy-protection so you "could" just give it to your friends to play Single Player, and - I believe - once custom servers go up then you wouldn't need to have one copy per player, though, again, violation of EULA.

You could probably also hack around the hosting the data externally...

This is a wonderful idea. I like to have a full digital archive on hard copy. And I will never install STEAM again.

What is Stardock's position on having two copies installed simultaneously...for instance one on a desktop and another on a laptop computer so long as they are not used simultaneously?

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 23

Almost. You would have to have a second serial # when you logon. The game's not attached to any particular computer but any player still has to have an account with a serial # attached to the person.

That's reasonable to me but if that's the case I wouldn't really claim that there is no copy protection. You may not consider it to be copy protection but I do and I'm sure I'm not alone. This method is also listed on Wikipedia as a type of copy protection.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection#Copy_protection_for_computer_software

"A registration key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer games use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

What is Stardock's position on having two copies installed simultaneously...for instance one on a desktop and another on a laptop computer so long as they are not used simultaneously?

We explicitly allow that, so go right ahead.

Ill be honest and say I dont read the EULA very much at all. Is that dump, probably, but to me alot of whats in there doesnt make much sense anyway. Its kinda like a bill going thru Congress thats 2000 pages long...I just dont understand it! Anyways, I wouldnt give games to friends, as to me, thats illegal just from a common sense view. Then again, they often call me a "goody goody" cause I wont get movies and other stuff off the net that I consider wrong. Oh well. Still cant wait for this to come out!!

Holy cow..i just noticed im only about 8k member number from Kyro. I wonder if I keep moving up if I can be an employee!! I suppose I could pay ya to be employed lol

Quoting abomination5,

reply 29

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 23

Almost. You would have to have a second serial # when you logon. The game's not attached to any particular computer but any player still has to have an account with a serial # attached to the person.

That's reasonable to me but if that's the case I wouldn't really claim that there is no copy protection. You may not consider it to be copy protection but I do and I'm sure I'm not alone. This method is also listed on Wikipedia as a type of copy protection.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection#Copy_protection_for_computer_software

"A registration key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer games use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

I could be wrong here, but isn't the serial number only used to register it on Impulse for updates and multiplayer? Is it actually asked for during the installation process?

Holy cow..i just noticed im only about 8k member number from Kyro.

I actually have #2803, I just couldn't remember the login back when I got GalCiv1

No copy protection is the smartest thing in my book and one of the biggest reasons i always buy from stardock, i really hate copy protection being installed on my machine when only the people that buy the game have to and all the pirates dont and the pirates usually crack the dam copy protection before the game comes out anyway lol.

Very few people read Eula's anymore because for the 10,000 lines of legalese needed to make a binding contract due to anal lawyers and laws there are maybe 10 to 15 lines that are actually relevant to the bulk of users. This also allows the odd developer to do wierd things now and then like put spyware on your machine and say but its in the EULA. The EULA has become the small print/fine print of the gaming industry that no one reads anymore because most of it is useless garbage.

Quoting Nesrie,

reply 33

I could be wrong here, but isn't the serial number only used to register it on Impulse for updates and multiplayer? Is it actually asked for during the installation process?

My interpretation of his post is that two people cannot use the same CD key at the same time in multiplayer (even on LAN). That's copy protection to me.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 19

We have dedicated servers already. We are talking about letting end users set up their own custom modded servers.

Yeah sorry I should have specified "dedicated server binaries", ie something I can run for my own dedicated server. I realise you already have the actual machines set up.

If people care about the hassle of updating let them play on the main server, I don't see why you should prevent those who don't mind it from hosting their own, even if it's just until "eventually".

I'm a bit confused with this whole LAN issue now. Let's say I unplug my cable modem. Can I still play LAN games? If I need to connect to impulse its not really LAN is it? Isn't that the way BattleNet works? Sorry if this is a dumb question

Quoting jmccrea,

reply 31

It's at the very top:

EULA

Use on a Personal Computer.
1. You may:
a. Install and use a single registered copy of the Software on one harddisk or other storage device for one personal computer, and you may accessand use the Software at that location so long as only one copy of theSoftware is in operation..
b. Install and use a second copy of the Software for your exclusive use,and as the primary user, on a backup or portable computer, so long as eachregistered copy of the Software is used on only one computer at a time.However, you may only install a second copy of the Software on a secondcomputer only if you are the main and primary user of this computer (e.g.,a second home computer or laptop) and the Software installed on the secondcomputer is linked to your Impulse account.
c. Install and use a copy of the Software on a new primary computer orreplacement primary computer only if you change or replace your primarypersonal computer and uninstall the Software on your old primary computer.

d. Install and use the Software on a network only if you have legallyacquired a separate license for each workstation on the network. The numberof users on the network must not exceed the number of licenses for theSoftware you have legally acquired.
e. Make a single backup copy of the Software for archival purposes only.
2. You may not:
a. Copy and distribute the Software or any portion of it except asexpressly provided in this Agreement.
b. Sublicense, rent, lease, transfer or assign your personal serial numberor registration key.
c. Sublicense, rent, lease, sell or resell the Software or any portion ofit.

Civfreak:

Yes, you'll need to connect to Stardock's servers initially, to download the XML files (which is a little fishy in my opinion... I will say I REALLY don't like that and I find it dishonest to say that Elemental supports LAN play when the program has to "phone home"). There may be ways to get around that (eg, modifying a .ini file and having the XML files pre-downloaded).

Quoting abomination5,

reply 37

My interpretation of his post is that two people cannot use the same CD key at the same time in multiplayer (even on LAN). That's copy protection to me.

Yeah. I realise there's no arguing with the EULA, but it just feels like saying you _can_ lend your girlfriend* your new TV, but you can't watch it together, she'll have to buy her own TV for that or it's an EULA-violation.

* Purely hypothetical girlfriend. Playing awesome games made by awesome developers naturally leaves no time for a social life.

I'm pretty confused too Civ. I will have one copy of the game, which I want to install on 3 different computers here for Lan play. When we play Sins on the Lan, it's super easy, but Elemental does not sound as easy so far. And does that mean I should tell anybody comming over to try Lan play to get their own account on Impulse?

Signed,

Forest Gump.

Quoting Nesrie,

reply 33

Quoting abomination5,
reply 29

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 23

Almost. You would have to have a second serial # when you logon. The game's not attached to any particular computer but any player still has to have an account with a serial # attached to the person.

That's reasonable to me but if that's the case I wouldn't really claim that there is no copy protection. You may not consider it to be copy protection but I do and I'm sure I'm not alone. This method is also listed on Wikipedia as a type of copy protection.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection#Copy_protection_for_computer_software

"A registration key, a series of letters and numbers that is asked for when running the program. Many computer games use registration keys. The software will refuse to run if the registration key is not typed in correctly, and multiplayer games will refuse to run if another user is online who has used the same registration key."

I could be wrong here, but isn't the serial number only used to register it on Impulse for updates and multiplayer? Is it actually asked for during the installation process?

Correct, it ties the game to your account, so if someone else took your game and wanted to update it , Impulse would reject them because the serial is already tied to your impulse account. I know because i brought Sins second hand and the douche told me it was never registered but after i installed it and tried to link it to my Impulse it told me that the code was already in use. Couldn't update it and was stuck with the retail gold version. But single player etc works fine. And yes so far stardock games only ask for serial when going online.

Again, the EULA states that you can install it on ONE other personal computer that you own and are the primary user of (like your notebook). However, you cannot use both computers at once (so, you can have your friend come over and play single-player on your notebook but you can't play with him at the same time on your Desktop). So you couldn't install it on all three of your computers, anyway (legally, nothing stops you from doing it other than yourself since it is DRM-free).

Since, it appears, LAN games "phone home" to Stardock you are going to be required to have a copy per player in order to play together (not the case for Single-Player which you could freely distribute illegally and everyone could play). Again, I think its dishonest to say you support LAN play when it phones home. And they'll need more than their own account on Impulse, they will need their own SERIAL number, which means they have to buy the game. I believe that Stardock will be aggressively updating this game for balance, which is why they are hosting the data on their own servers, so that is the justification for it, even if I disagree.

Will the user need to pay shipping for these archival DVDs? If so, it seems like a slightly annoying extra financial burden on the players (especially people who wind up needing to request more than one version). And if not, it seems like a needless financial burden on YOU guys. Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just release standalone patches that don't require Impulse every year or two and let people physically back them up themselves? As far as piracy is concerned, cracking the original game and obtaining one of those downloaded patches doesn't seem like it would be any easier or harder than cracking an archival DVD directly, and it seems like it'd just go a little smoother for everyone that way.

Not that I want to sound ungrateful here. I'm exactly the sort of paranoid, anti-DRM individual who worries about stuff like this, so I'm thrilled that you're giving the matter due consideration. I'm just wondering why you chose to handle it by physically mailing out updated DVDs in particular. It seems a little clumsy compared to the alternative.

Yes, I don't see why it needs to phone home (connect to Stardock) just to be able to set up LAN play and modding... shouldn't this be supported in the gold version? And I agree that if you need to connect to the internet, and have separate Impulse accounts, it is not "no copy protection", maybe "minimal copy protection" (depending on the person making the judgement).

"No Copy Protection" and "Activation" just don't go together, they are a juxtaposition. It is impossible to have Activation as well as No Copy Protection, as Activation is by definition a Copy Protection of one type.

Frogboy, please alter the title of this thread.

Best regards,
Steven.

I agree with Digsby. Copy protection is a significant determination of what titles I'll buy, simply because I've had horrible experiences with them in the past. I'm never using the latest, greatest computer to play games, and a hidden DRM file or secret tampering in my registry costs me hours of grief to clean up. When I buy a game, I'm not giving the publisher free reign to dump garbage on my hard drive that I have to clean up later.

If you want to update the game digitally, you have Impulse to do that.

If you want a physical DVD that does not require Internet access to play (single player obviously) we will ship one too you (user would pay nominal shipping cost of the DVD).

If you want to play it on a LAN, my recommendation is to use 1 copy to install it on your various machines in the LAN (easiest way would be to use http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com). However, each user playing would still need to enter in their Impulse account ID (which has to have a registered copy of the game somewhere). But they don't have to activate or anything like that on your LAN. The only downsides are for those users who expect to have 1 license serve all their friends or LANs that have no Internet access at all.

Well then, just change the name of this thread to "Elemental: Minimal Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more". I don't mind the copy protection you have (to make sure people actually buy the game themselves), but I do mind that you are calling Activation - No Copy Protection. "Minimal Copy Protection" maybe, but not "No Copy Protection".

Alter this thread's title to say "Minimal Copy Protection", and I think the majority of people would not have any problem with it. Simple as that.

Best regards,
Steven.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 48

If you want to update the game digitally, you have Impulse to do that.

If you want a physical DVD that does not require Internet access to play (single player obviously) we will ship one too you (user would pay nominal shipping cost of the DVD).

Is this what you mean by making updated DVD archives available. We are to pay this nominal fee to keep an updated copy? Why not release the patches or the the image to users digitally?

As for LAN, it's not really a LAN connection if it needs to be online in any capacity.

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Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more