Why is MP dying???

Indeed, the strategy is in the teamwork. I think Dalzyk is merely pointing out there is limited personal skill required to play DG effectively, it's all about positioning with your teammates and coordinating your attacks rather than requiring high APM.

But maybe this begs another question: if you can effectively judge the skill level of your players and you have a large enough player pool, does it actually matter whether there are 50 tricks to learn to compete at the top level?

DG offers a very level playing field. A good player won't be doing recognisably different things to an average one, just their team will probably win at the end. Teamwork is very subtle and difficult to see in action, whereas in the "50 tricks" style games it's very obvious who is a good player and who is not. I guess playing Demigod identified for me that having personal challenge in performing difficult tricks, such as kiting melee with multiple units in something like Dawn of War, is actually just as important as requiring teamwork, and the two should coexist even in a game about teamwork.

Perhaps a good analogy is something like soccer, where personal skills can wow the crowd and win the small battles going on around the pitch, but teamwork is going to decide the winning team most of the time no matter how good one player is at dribbling. DG has the teamwork aspects nailed down to a point, but I don't think the personal skills of any player are relevant enough.

Precisely. Agreed with all of that. "Personal Skill" makes very little difference. It of course can, but the different is much smaller than in other games. The game is a lot about tactics/strategy/combo's etc. , but personal skill has very little to do with the game (it does, but not enough). For some people this is good, for some - it is bad.

In a Team Game, the emphasis shouldn't be able one singular player's performance. In a Public match, fine - it's for shits and giggles anyway, but in an organised Team VS Team environment the emphasis should always be focused on the Team as a whole.

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 77

In a Team Game, the emphasis shouldn't be able one singular player's performance. In a Public match, fine - it's for shits and giggles anyway, but in an organised Team VS Team environment the emphasis should always be focused on the Team as a whole.

This is true. You seem to focus too much on the individual skill level. The skill level isn't very high there. Builds will become solid. But when it comes to teams against teams I think you're simplifying the difficulty of that way too much, Dalzk.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 75

The team dynamics in Demigod are easy to understand but are constantly evolving.

Even the strategies in Demigod are evolving over time as players discover new combinations.

THIS. I have been playing for a few months and I have seen this game evolve. It is very competative if high level skilled player are involved. It is not an overtly complex game, but when you get down to it this game is very complicated.

Heck i remeber when I first started Erb and Oak were played as assasins, and UB was only used in a spit build. Minion builds were nonexistant.

I think people forget how young this game is. The metagame is jsut now being establised. One we get modding, the DGs, and some more balancing, the metagame will comtinually shift every few months as people build counter and whatnot.

I give it at least another 6 months to a year befor we know how great this game can really be. (or not be )

I was nodding away right up till here. I think the personal skills, within a team, of each team members are important to the whole. It's not about clicks per minute, rather simply comprehension; understanding the situation as a whole and making personal, moment to moment decisions - when to press that half damaged Tower, when to pull back from that nearly dead UB. You can tell the difference from someone who 'gets it' and someone who's winging it, even in public games.

I guess I'm not really talking about pub games in their current form...I expect teams to organise themselves and coordinate with each other over voice in a game like DG, and maybe that's something for a sequel to integrate or whatever. When I played on voice, even with a friend who had never played before, by having a single leader barking positioning and the rest of the team giving feedback we would still outperform a pub team with experienced players.

My (attempted) point is this: our player who really had nfi what to do was able to hold his own against people who had been playing for a month or so simply because we were on voice and working as a team. Our opponents were unable to capitalise on what should have been the (very) weak link in our team because despite him having a very low personal skill level, our teamwork was good.

I do think games that placing an emphasis on teamwork are good, I played clan TF2 for a while which was an absolute blast and required a near psychic link between the medics and offensive classes, but my concern is that it's maybe a little too prevalent in DG. You should be able to exploit a weak team member more easily than is the case at the moment, and I worry that in a game of such fine margins the random elements of the game are going to dominate results between even teams.

I don't want to sound like a pointless basher, I just think it's a fairly interesting aspect of multiplayer game design that's probably worth talking about. The new DG with his warp abilities actually sounds a lot like something that would involve some serious timing to get right, so I'm looking forward to the new patch and seeing what we can do with it

This game has forgotten where it came from big numbers, big maps, big economy, big battles. When a game is so short the loser always feels like they could of won it if .... but in an expansive STRATEGY GAME AT THE BITTER END ITS EASIER TO FEEL YOUR BEATEN AND JUST MAYBE YOU MIGHT SLEEP BETTER IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THAT. DEMIGOD IS NOT STRATEGY and that is the problem with demigod its for kids its not like chess.

Quoting timevans999,

reply 82

DEMIGOD IS NOT STRATEGY

Wow, so many people would disagree. I' am tempted to think you are just flame baiting. Your post was useless. Post something constructive or stop playing and posting here please. Thank You.

Quoting timevans999,

reply 82

"This game has forgotten where it came from big numbers, big maps, big economy, big battles. When a game is so short the loser always feels like they could of won it if .... but in an expansive STRATEGY GAME AT THE BITTER END ITS EASIER TO FEEL YOUR BEATEN AND JUST MAYBE YOU MIGHT SLEEP BETTER IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THAT. DEMIGOD IS NOT STRATEGY and that is the problem with demigod its for kids its not like chess."

Please post more regularly. Your incoherency amuses me greatly.

Just because a game sells alot of copys and creates revenue doesnt make it a good game meens it just made money for the companys at hand. Demigod is a shining example of just that IMO. Gloating about 100k + sales then saying they can only afford to give us 2 demigods for free and point to us paying for more down the line is pure rubbish also.

Still waiting till 1.2 to come out and if it still isn't fun for me personally I will try to con sombody into buying my impulse account off me. I'll tell him all about the cool features I've been waiting for that will be in it but fail to mentioning that they aren't in yet nor an eta of when they will come. Or how you can always get a game any time of the day / night but fail to mention that it will take 10-20 mins to finally have enough to start the game (or it will disband withoutstarting).

1.2 still isn't out? I check back once in a while just to see.

Quoting Sly_Squash,

reply 86

1.2 still isn't out? I check back once in a while just to see.

it comes out on tuesday!

actually 1.19 comes out tuesday.

Quoting Maccilia,

reply 87

Quoting Sly_Squash, reply 861.2 still isn't out? I check back once in a while just to see.

it comes out on tuesday!

No it doesn't. 1.19

Quoting Maccilia,

reply 87

it comes out on tuesday!

No, 1.19 comes out on Tuesday. 1.2 has mod support and needs added security to prevent malicious mods.

Quoting ghurka,

reply 85

Just because a game sells alot of copys and creates revenue doesnt make it a good game meens it just made money for the companys at hand. Demigod is a shining example of just that IMO. Gloating about 100k + sales then saying they can only afford to give us 2 demigods for free and point to us paying for more down the line is pure rubbish also.

Demigod is a fantastic game, and is a lot of fun to play. If you don't like it, don't play it. Also, you lack of understanding as to the operation of a buisness amazes me. I thought people learnt the "invest and return" dynamic in high school.

Quoting ghurka,

reply 85

Still waiting till 1.2 to come out and if it still isn't fun for me personally I will try to con sombody into buying my impulse account off me. I'll tell him all about the cool features I've been waiting for that will be in it but fail to mentioning that they aren't in yet nor an eta of when they will come. Or how you can always get a game any time of the day / night but fail to mention that it will take 10-20 mins to finally have enough to start the game (or it will disband withoutstarting).

Demigod is what it is, no new patch is going to dramatically change the aspects of the game to make it fun for people who don't already find it fun. It's not going to become a new game, it's simply going to improve and evolve into a better game, and considering it's already a great game, I can only see better things in store. If you're not having fun, stop playing and sell your account as you said. People like you really aren't wanted here.

Just because a game sells alot of copys and creates revenue doesnt make it a good game meens it just made money for the companys at hand. Demigod is a shining example of just that IMO. Gloating about 100k + sales then saying they can only afford to give us 2 demigods for free and point to us paying for more down the line is pure rubbish also.

There is no objective "truth" about what constitutes a good game. I was merely responding to the contention that Demigod should have had 60 "heroes" and the claim that HoN has a high pre order source "proves" that these games have to have lots of heroes in order to be a success.

As a commercial game developer, there are many factors for determining "success" and profitability is one of them.

Still waiting till 1.2 to come out and if it still isn't fun for me personally I will try to con sombody into buying my impulse account off me. I'll tell him all about the cool features I've been waiting for that will be in it but fail to mentioning that they aren't in yet nor an eta of when they will come. Or how you can always get a game any time of the day / night but fail to mention that it will take 10-20 mins to finally have enough to start the game (or it will disband withoutstarting).

Well that really says more about you than anything else. Apparently Demigod doesn't appeal to the douche demographic.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Still waiting till 1.2 to come out and if it still isn't fun for me personally I will try to con sombody into buying my impulse account off me. I'll tell him all about the cool features I've been waiting for that will be in it but fail to mentioning that they aren't in yet nor an eta of when they will come. Or how you can always get a game any time of the day / night but fail to mention that it will take 10-20 mins to finally have enough to start the game (or it will disband withoutstarting).

Well that really says more about you than anything else. Apparently Demigod doesn't appeal to the douche demographic.

Thought the same thing.

I bet Frogboy is equipped with a +5 sword of Troll Slaying.

I think there's one in Elemental, actually...

Quoting Polynomial,

reply 94

I bet Frogboy is equipped with a +5 sword of Troll Slaying.

So that's where my sword went! Oh well, still got my trusty hammer:

Beat that.

Hahahaha.

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