Citadel upgrades

Regulus and the Unclean Beast should rarely buy citadel upgrades. These guys need good equipment more than any other DG's. Buy only very high priority upgrades, and only if your allies cannot afford to do so (or just aren't doing so)

Conversely, Queen of Thorns, Sedna, and Torchbearer really don't need equipment as much as other demigods. They more than anyone else should be sinking their gold into citadel upgrades.

Rook, Erebus, and Oak come down the middle. They're not utterly dependent on good items like Unclean Beast and Regulus, but they can put them to good use. These guys should strike a balance. Buy extra citadel upgrades if your team can't afford them, go for good equipment if your team has the upgrades covered.

Great post Darvin. The questions I have about QoT and Sedna though is that it seems to be viable in most maps that they need to deal with their mana issues ASAP, wouldn't that make them at least very mana gear or mana pot dependant?

Also wouldn't some builds of Regulus do just fine w/o much gear if they are relying on stuff like snipes and mines?

As Reg I just max mark and mines and that does plenty of damage right there and I spend the rest of my time ninja flags and taking down towers at range. None of that really needs gear.

Also wouldn't some builds of Regulus do just fine w/o much gear if they are relying on stuff like snipes and mines?

While it's true those builds can thrive without good gear, they still become awe-inspiringly powerful with good gear. Putting a mageslayer on a Rook makes him great; put one on a Regulus (regardless of his build) and he's awesome. He puts high end items to better use than other demigods, which is why he's usually the one who should be going for them.

I myself usually run Reggie as a snipe/mine/mark build with few passives. You need lots of mana gear to keep it up, but once you have the time to add some damage gear to the mix he becomes incredibly devastating.

I agree fully with Darvin3, but would like to just add that some DGs are better at making money than others either due to killing the enemy DGs or due to good AoEs which allow them to farm the creeps very efficiently. For example, when playing Regulus, if I get an early kill I often buy the first level of Currency for the team ASAP.

He who kills more should help team more with citadel upgrades they get more gold.

If you end up the game with most gold and not most citadel upgrades basically you were a tad greedy

In my opinion, every player should set aside 1200 to 1800 gold to spend on the citadel before they hit level 10. The only excuse would be that all the upgrades that cost less than 1800 gold appart from priest have been purchased. This sets each player back a small amount but gives you a big advantage especially if the other side didn't do the same.

i think the real point of distinction becomes what to do in mid to late game. everybody should be pitching in to the citadel until ALL of the following upgrades are purchased: building health 1, building damage 1, gold income 1, experience 1, creep damage 1, creep armor 1.

once those are bought then you get to worry about who saves up for artifacts vs. who saves up for catapults.

each Demigod has a different method of farming and pushing so they should trend towards buying the upgrades that best enhance their farming method.

Beast farms almost exclusively by hunting enemy DG's. he's noticeably poor at creeping. Pure damage works well for Beast. he's a good carrier for Mageslayer and Ashkandor.

Regulus can creep extremely well with Angelic Fury and Mines or he can hunt demigods extremely well with Snipe and Mark of the Betrayer. its very hard to play a build that does BOTH well. Angelic Fury build can also be deadly to demigods but probably not before a significant amount of attack speed gear has been purchased. If you're mainly farming and Pushing with Angelic Fury you probably don't need much gear just for that so you can buy alot of Citadel Stuff. if you're hunting Demigods (regardless of your build) you're almost definitely going for the best attack speed gear you can find so Mageslayer, Cloak of Flames, and Ashkandor are on the top of the list.

Torchbearer is noteworthy in being able to play without much equipment. it doesn't really matter what your build is as long as you've got a Blade of the Serpent, which will provide you with as much mana as you ever really need. Torch is extremely good at creep farming as well. this suggests he should buy the creep and experience upgrades at the citadel.

Rook is an extremely good pusher and creep farmer. he's bad at killing Demigods unless they try to confront him in a tower farm, which they won't if they're smart. Tower builds of rook are also noteworthy in being almost totally indepent of gear. Rook is also a good choice to buy alot of the creep and experience upgrades at the citadel.

Sedna is great at killing enemy Demigods and great at capping flags. she's very bad at creep farming and only barely average at tower pushing. her mana use is extreme so she needs to buy alot of equipment. i think for this reason Sedna is a good choice to save for artifacts. I'm quite fond of Orb of Veiled Storms and Bulwark of Ages on Sedna.

Queen of Thorns is massively strong at pushing and creeping but she chews through mana just as fast as Sedna. you can easily spend 10k gold on mana items as Queen before you're ready to buy much of anything else. Queen is a good choice to save for Artifacts as she benefits alot from stuff like Cloak of Flames and Stormbringer.

Oak is very versatile and either of his major playstyles (Raise Dead oriented or Penitence oriented) are good at lane pushing due to Surge of Faith and Divine Justice. His Raise Dead build is not good at killing enemy DG's until the lategame (when a few towers are down and the minions can pursue much further without dying). The Penitence build is vey good at killing enemy DG's and can farm money quickly this way. Either build is only medium equipment dependent. a few health and mana items help alot as do Idols but Oak has a very low need for artifacts. for this reason I think Oak should generally be trying to buy citadel upgrades once he's got the few items he really does need.

Erebus is very bad at creeping and tower pushing. he's extremely good at killing Demigods. this makes him alot like Sedna and thus a good choice to save for artifacts. auto-attack damage boosters like Mageslayer are particularly good for Erebus. Erebus can also be mana intensive (Bat Swarm and Charm both cost alot) so items like Cloak of Flames are good for him as well.

Quoting transitive,

reply 7

Beast farms almost exclusively by hunting enemy DG's. he's noticeably poor at creeping. Pure damage works well for Beast. he's a good carrier for Mageslayer and Ashkandor.

I have to disagree with the part about UB being a poor creep killer. Early on this is true but with post mortem UB can kill an entire wave in 2 or 3 hits. With ooze he can kill a wave in a few seconds just by standing nearby.

As for upgrades, I play as UB and spend my first 2k or so on items and then by the gold mint and experience upgrades. I can usually get these fairly early by farming enemy DG, as transitive stated. Then I focus on items for the rest of the game and depend on my allies to buy anything else that is needed.

But do yourself a favor and don't buy priests until at least mid-game when you know you can get up to catapults soon after. Otherwise you'll be feeding your enemies experience.

Regulus can creep extremely well with Angelic Fury and Mines or he can hunt demigods extremely well with Snipe and Mark of the Betrayer. its very hard to play a build that does BOTH well.

Not true; using mines as hand grenades can be incredibly devastating and set you up for an easy mark/snipe combo kill. As I said, you need a lot of mana to get it to work (otherwise you run out of mana before you complete your combo), but it's one of the best damage spiking builds out of any DG in the game.

Once the land mines take a nerf to their activation time this build won't be nearly the slayer it was, but for the time being it's a very deadly build overall.

I have to disagree with the part about UB being a poor creep killer.

I second that (no pun intended); UB wipes out creeps just about as good if not better than most as soon as creeps start exploding.

Am I the only one who thinks that the tower health upgrades are almost useless?

The first one is cheap enough that it doesn't really matter and I'll buy it sometimes if the enemy is pushing early.

But in 90% of games, by the time the enemy starts pushing it only takes 10 seconds to knock a tower down. The health regen just can't keep up.

re: my statement about Beast's creeping abilities

Post-Mortem just barely makes him able to keep up. its an inaccurate statement to say he has any advantages in creeping relative to other DG's. he has a simple tool that allows him to be just barely good enough. he still falls short of the mark set by real champion creep farmers like TB, QoT, Rook, or Oak.

re: Regulus

Darvin, what you've described is basically the Demigod hunting abilities of the Snipe Build. its entirely possible to include mines in that build. i very much doubt you'll also be able to include Angelic Fury. the only distinction I was trying to make was between builds that emphasize AF (and thus have high sustained damage and are good at creeping) and builds that emphasize the other stuff (and thus have high burst damage but tend to be mana hungry and thus poor at creeping unless you're packing alot of mana regen).

i very much doubt you'll also be able to include Angelic Fury ... and thus have high burst damage but tend to be mana hungry and thus poor at creeping unless you're packing alot of mana regen

Exactly my point; it's a very mana hungry build, but if you can bring out those mana items early enough he can creep, push, and kill quite nicely. There are ways to balance these things, so it's highly presumptuous to say any Regulus build is either good at creeping or killing.

Am I the only one who thinks that the tower health upgrades are almost useless?

The first level is your most important asset. If someone rushes a tower it's going to go down no matter how much health it has, but if they're trying to pick away the hit points over time (such as the beast with spit, or Regulus with snipe) then this is utterly invaluable.

Post-Mortem just barely makes him able to keep up. its an inaccurate statement to say he has any advantages in creeping relative to other DG's.

But to say they have any advantage over him is equally false. While he must go into the melee to deal with mobs, both ooze and post-mortem can very quickly annihilate anything that isn't a giant.

I make sure to buy what I consider my 'integral equipment' before anything else. In the case of Erebus, I buy my idols and Vlemish helmet. Then I start saving for upgrades. Depending on the situation, I'll either save for full citadel, or split between equipment and citadel.

Darvin,

re: Regulus

a mana hungry Regulus must spend gold on mana items. this is gold not spent on Citadel Upgrades, Health Items, or Damage Items. there are tradeoffs for everything.

re: Beast

i will say without hesitation that Oak, Queen, Rook, and TB all have noticeably and important advantages over Beast when it comes to creep farming.

Oak regains health and mana during creep farming due to Divine Justice. He also buffs his own creeps during creep farming due to Surge of Faith. Additionally Surge is an AoE and thus can destroy a very large number of creeps at once, this is highly relevant in endgame.

Queen is not exposed to any damage at all while destroying a creep wave due to a ranged AoE auto-attack. Additionally Ground Spikes is AoE and can destroy a very large number of creeps at once, which is highly relevant in endgame

Rook can passively destroy creeps with his towers and shoulder turrets while the Rook himself is doing other things, such as retreating, or attacking an enemy DG. he also has a limited form of AoE with his Hammer Slam.

TB has numerous high powered AoE attacks and simply destroys creeps much more quickly than anyone else. Rain of Ice in particular allows him to wipe out an entire creep wave with zero exposure to himself.

these are all remarkable advantages that greatly exceed the capabilities of Unclean Beast. i didn't even count the fact that Queen and Oak can be assisted by minions during their farming. Beast cannot farm creeps at the speed of those DGs and he cannot do so without paying much more health than those DGs. he is altogether a much less efficient creeper, on the low end of the creeping efficiency spectrum.

A Regulus (AF) build does not need to acquire any mana items (BotS).

A regulus who doesn't use AF can level quite a lot slower (mine mana requirements vs AF auto attack)

A snipe Reg should contribute more to cit upgrades than an auto attack build. Some snipes are not needed but taken anyway.

Honestly it's all going to hinge on kills and how effective you are keeping your warscore up over the other team. If you are getting kills and keeping the flags locked down regularly I wouldn't buy any upgrades until you and your team are ready for the push then buy it all at once and then only minions priests etc. Again I would rather some of the towers down and keeping the flags locked down then buy it all or as much as possible then cap lock their portal flags and make a push. IF you are on the receiving end of this you won't have much warscore and even if you do you won't have the money to upgrade effectively and the off chance that you do get priests or angels the other team might just decide to buy them plus cats and giants as well. You are boned then.

these are all remarkable advantages that greatly exceed the capabilities of Unclean Beast. i didn't even count the fact that Queen and Oak can be assisted by minions during their farming. Beast cannot farm creeps at the speed of those DGs and he cannot do so without paying much more health than those DGs. he is altogether a much less efficient creeper, on the low end of the creeping efficiency spectrum.

Keep in mind, you only need to do 25% damage to get credit for the kill. UB can turn on ooze, sit in the middle of the wave and check his e-mail for 3 seconds and then move on to his more important work, confident that he'll get credit for those creeps when they eventually die.

Compared to TB, he loses a second or two per wave and he pays no mana cost. The difference in creep efficiency is too minute to be of any signifigance.

standing in the middle of a creep wave while having a constant health drain is NOT too minute a difference to be of any significance.

the risk factor alone is a gigantic handicap. the general narrowness of Ooze is yet another. the more effective builds of Beast don't use Ooze at all. you'd be deviating from a proven Demigod crunching cookie cutter build (Spit, Grasp, Inner Beast) to get a high risk farming ability. TB (and every other DG I listed) gets those high end farming abilities in their most popular, highly effective cookie cutter builds.

edit: double post

Beast farms almost exclusively by hunting enemy DG's. he's noticeably poor at creeping. Pure damage works well for Beast. he's a good carrier for Mageslayer and Ashkandor.

And later with Plague he can be farming creep waves at the start of their spawn (depending on where the contagious enemy demi's have hared off to to heal )

Quoting transitive,

reply 19

standing in the middle of a creep wave while having a constant health drain is NOT too minute a difference to be of any significance.

the risk factor alone is a gigantic handicap. the general narrowness of Ooze is yet another. the more effective builds of Beast don't use Ooze at all. you'd be deviating from a proven Demigod crunching cookie cutter build (Spit, Grasp, Inner Beast) to get a high risk farming ability. TB (and every other DG I listed) gets those high end farming abilities in their most popular, highly effective cookie cutter builds.

You can get ooze a plenty in the most successful cookie cutter builds with UB too.. you don't NEED 3 levels of the interupt just the first one.. and you don't need to have any snare at all if you focus on move speed yourself.

The boots that give a 50% move boost are EPIC for the beast and can have him jetting about at move rate 12 with one other piece of move gear. And not even Sedna can outrun you unsnared..

Other facts to note: once you get to a point you are killing enemies in three hits anyway you don't need any more weapon strength upgrades either

standing in the middle of a creep wave while having a constant health drain is NOT too minute a difference to be of any significance.

the risk factor alone is a gigantic handicap. the general narrowness of Ooze is yet another. the more effective builds of Beast don't use Ooze at all. you'd be deviating from a proven Demigod crunching cookie cutter build (Spit, Grasp, Inner Beast) to get a high risk farming ability. TB (and every other DG I listed) gets those high end farming abilities in their most popular, highly effective cookie cutter builds.

Dude, Ooze is greatly loved. It's not that narrow, it does three things:

Efficient creeping
Increases damage against enemy DGs by a modest but unremarkable margin
Slows enemy DGs auto attack quite a bit (up to 40%)

Regarding the health cost, a smart player won't let himself get into a position where the 300 or 400 points of life Ooze costs has the potential to kill.

Quoting Darvin3,

reply 1

Regulus and the Unclean Beast should rarely buy citadel upgrades. These guys need good equipment more than any other DG's. Buy only very high priority upgrades, and only if your allies cannot afford to do so (or just aren't doing so).

Interesting... I nearly always play Regulus, and I nearly always get the upgrades award after the game ends.

I don't think this higher level of DG understanding and teamwork strategies are common knowledge yet.

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