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Biggest Imba's That Need Balancing

By DalzK on May 18, 2009 9:26:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1. Rooks Towers. Simply too strong when spammed and abused - especially at higher levels. On small maps like prison they just become a joke when 8 towers are plopped up infront of your base. Something about them needs to change. Either the max cap of them goes down, the mana cost, the cooldown, the HP of it (imo this is the best solution) - any one of those is fine. NOTE: Only OP in certain situations.

2. Heart of Life + Shield. This can be done with Oak, and can provide an easy 6 seconds of very high hp and mana regen. You can use this with any Demigod if you take Orb of Defiance. Whenever you get hit - whether you actually take the damage or not, the Heart of Life regen should be interupted.

3. Heart of Life and Cape of Plentiful Mana should not let Erebus regen mana in mist form. In fact, maybe this is okay - but I think that Erebus should only be allowed in mist form for a max amount of time - 10 seconds or so maybe? (figure can change). It feels like this move can be abused pretty easily.


4. Erebus - Despite his bite nerf, he is still clearly OP. His bite should not slow you down. The fact one move with a 7 second cool down can - 1. Damage you 2. Heal 3. Slowdown 4. Reduce Armour - is just too OP imo. I still dont see why his bite needs to slow enemies down if he already starts with a base speed of 6.3. Also, im thinking bring back the old mist. Mist should also do damage to Erebus. Not crazy amounts, just slight ones. If any of you were in the beta you will know what im talking about.

So far thats the only noticeable imba I can see that definately needs balancing. If anyone else has any other imba's that they think needs balancing post here and back them up with good reasoning and logic and I will add them to the list.

 

+26 Karma | 121 Replies
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Reply #26
Sly_Squash
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May 18, 2009 11:36:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like kittens so I agree with Azrailx.

Reply #27
Sly_Squash
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May 18, 2009 11:42:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

And yeah, towers need to die when rook dies.

Reply #28
woppin
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May 18, 2009 11:45:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Kitkun,
reply 14
I have to agree with DalzK. When Rook camps a portal flag, you're screwed.
It was really frustrating to simply not ever have a possibility of killing him. We got close a few times, but even with Silence, his health was so high and the player good enough that he could always make it back to base or his ally if we were able to drive him off. We would be in no condition to fight after that, and so Oak would come back out and immediately drive us off. Trying to fight 2v2 was just pointless. His ally stacked health and had HoL as well.

You've got silence, and I'd assume pounce. So you get 5 seconds to hit him where he can't do anything much against you and you're going to take off a decent chunk of health. What were your allies playing as? If you all use your stuns/silences well and nuke him all at the same time you should be able to get a kill since he can't shield and he can't run/port away. Yes this is simplifying things, and requires teamwork just to kill 1 player, but some opponents ARE that hard to kill. Playing as Sed you would surely appreciate that some DGs are very, very difficult to kill without exploiting their weakness carefully (stun for Sed gets you killed in a flash, anything else you can shrug off most of the time)

Actually that reminds me, there was a thread about Last Stand on Fortress mode being retarded, so that should probably be added to the list of things to reconsider.

Reply #29
DalzK
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May 18, 2009 12:09:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually that reminds me, there was a thread about Last Stand on Fortress mode being retarded, so that should probably be added to the list of things to reconsider.

If someone could explain this in more detail I can add it. I have yet to have it be abused vs me so I dont really know what its like.

Reply #30
Kitkun
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May 18, 2009 12:10:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You've got silence, and I'd assume pounce. So you get 5 seconds to hit him where he can't do anything much against you and you're going to take off a decent chunk of health. What were your allies playing as? If you all use your stuns/silences well and nuke him all at the same time you should be able to get a kill since he can't shield and he can't run/port away.
It was Sedna+UB. Oak always opened with Penitence, and so he was swinging away for heavy damage. After the first Silence, he would retreat sooner and use Shield+HoL sooner as well. Still, he survived everything simply because there was no way we could deal enough damage, and we could barely get him off the field before he was ready to fight again.

If someone could explain this in more detail I can add it. I have yet to have it be abused vs me so I dont really know what its like.
I actually used this to win a 2vs1 not too long ago. Spec Oak for pure damage, get Last Stand. Helps if you get Shield+HoL to make getting there easier and have more time to do damage. Die. Get free damage because you're completely invulnerable and shoud have high DPS and Soul Power buff.

 

Reply #31
Sly_Squash
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May 18, 2009 12:18:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting DalzK,
reply 4

Actually that reminds me, there was a thread about Last Stand on Fortress mode being retarded, so that should probably be added to the list of things to reconsider.
If someone could explain this in more detail I can add it. I have yet to have it be abused vs me so I dont really know what its like.

Oak just continually suicides on the fortresses dealing massive damage with all his last stand bonuses

Reply #32
ShunKeets
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May 18, 2009 12:29:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The idea is to play aggressively against the rook. Ever since I've seen how the towers CAN be OP, whenever I play against a rook we all just gang up on him until he's useless and they don't have any control over neutral terrority anyway to place towers. You have to keep rook submissive from the beginning--a tower rook's goal is to maintain control over middle territory, so if you don't give him a foothold he is never a threat.

Reply #33
rendari
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May 18, 2009 12:43:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sedna stalemates. They make the game boring.

Reply #34
HorseRadish
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May 18, 2009 12:49:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think most of Imba are still favor related and we either need to add 10000 to every favor level or eliminate favor completely because some characters some favor items work way too good then for others.

Reply #35
ddd888
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May 18, 2009 12:54:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ShunKeets,
reply 7
The idea is to play aggressively against the rook. Ever since I've seen how the towers CAN be OP, whenever I play against a rook we all just gang up on him until he's useless and they don't have any control over neutral terrority anyway to place towers. You have to keep rook submissive from the beginning--a tower rook's goal is to maintain control over middle territory, so if you don't give him a foothold he is never a threat.

 

yeah agree ppl complain cause they have no clue how to fight rook

Reply #36
DalzK
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May 18, 2009 1:16:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think most of Imba are still favor related and we either need to add 10000 to every favor level or eliminate favor completely because some characters some favor items work way too good then for others.

True. I remember now that the Rook also had the wings favour item. Just meant he could camp behind towers to reheal making him very hard to kill.

Reply #37
WickedDemiurge
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May 18, 2009 1:58:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would like to see Rook Towers fundamentally changes to be:

a. more killable overall

b. Take less of Rook's time

 

Power off the Tower is four skill points ever, so it should give 4 skill points worth of effect, or to state it another way, even a Tower based Rook should be required to do other things in order to be effective.

 

That's why I say each tower should be 50% more mana, 50-75% more damage, and the same HP, but you get only 1/2/3/4 of them, instead of 2/4/6/8. That would halve the time it takes to put up a tower thicket, but the thicket would be a little easiest to destroy and do a bit less damage. This would enable Rook to spend more time Hammer Smashing or Boulder Rolling or whatever.

Reply #38
Ke5trel
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May 18, 2009 2:04:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

O man, bring out the waambulance! 

Dalzk and Kitkun are such noobs - Shield plus Heart of Life is easily defeated by anyone who knows how to play.  You just have to interrupt shield!  Simple, see?  (The Heart item is overpriced, imo - should be 2k gold max)

Also, Rook towers are weaksauce, especially on bottleneck maps, and especially when he bunches them together to form a Deathstar.  Maybe you guys should play a couple more games before you go making wild Imba posts, huh?

Also, please bring back stunlocking, it was a valid mechanic and easily counterable.  Same with teleganks.  And Renewal Boulderslams.

Gratz to the many experienced-player responses on this thread for not listening to the mad gibberish spouted by these characters.

Keep on truckin'

Reply #39
DalzK
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May 18, 2009 2:10:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oh Kestrel now you are asking for it!

Reply #40
jochance
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May 18, 2009 2:23:10 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Yes, yes he is.

Thuuundercaaats hooooooooo!

Reply #41
woppin
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May 19, 2009 1:44:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,
reply 13
O man, bring out the waambulance! 

Dalzk and Kitkun are such noobs - Shield plus Heart of Life is easily defeated by anyone who knows how to play.  You just have to interrupt shield!  Simple, see?  (The Heart item is overpriced, imo - should be 2k gold max)

Also, Rook towers are weaksauce, especially on bottleneck maps, and especially when he bunches them together to form a Deathstar.  Maybe you guys should play a couple more games before you go making wild Imba posts, huh?

Also, please bring back stunlocking, it was a valid mechanic and easily counterable.  Same with teleganks.  And Renewal Boulderslams.

Gratz to the many experienced-player responses on this thread for not listening to the mad gibberish spouted by these characters.

Keep on truckin'

I'm so confused.

Reply #42
Shadow
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May 19, 2009 1:59:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting woppin,
reply 16



Quoting Ke5trel,
reply 13
O man, bring out the waambulance! 

Dalzk and Kitkun are such noobs...

I'm so confused.

Hint: Ke5trel, Kitkun and Dalzk are friends

Reply #43
Xinoxlx
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May 19, 2009 2:06:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Think the towers need to give some of their durability to rook. The only reason I use them is because the giant walking castle is probably the easiest demigod to kill. Oak who's an empty suit of armour is harder to kill then him. Don't get why they made a demigod so big and durable looking only to have him the exact oppsite.

Reply #44
woppin
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May 19, 2009 2:06:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting _Shadow,
reply 17

Quoting woppin, reply 16


Quoting Ke5trel,
reply 13
O man, bring out the waambulance! 

Dalzk and Kitkun are such noobs...

I'm so confused.



Hint: Ke5trel, Kitkun and Dalzk are friends

I am no longer confused.

Reply #45
woppin
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May 19, 2009 2:08:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Xinoxlx,
reply 18
Think the towers need to give some of their durability to rook. The only reason I use them is because the giant walking castle is probably the easiest demigod to kill. Oak who's an empty suit of armour is harder to kill then him. Don't get why they made a demigod so big and durable looking only to have him the exact oppsite.

I find it amusing that the generals in the game are played mostly as assassins, while Rook is essentially played as a general with static minions. Not that theres anything inherently wrong with that...

Reply #46
DalzK
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May 19, 2009 3:46:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Don't get why they made a demigod so big and durable looking only to have him the exact oppsite.

Well in the beta he sometimes became near impossible to kill and could get up to 8k+ HP which was pathetic, and he simply needed a HP nerf

Reply #47
OrexxerO
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May 19, 2009 4:01:35 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Everything is OP until you find a strategy to counter it.

 

And then if you find there is no counter then it is truly Over Powered.

Reply #48
woppin
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May 19, 2009 4:15:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Kitkun,
reply 5

.It was Sedna+UB. Oak always opened with Penitence, and so he was swinging away for heavy damage. After the first Silence, he would retreat sooner and use Shield+HoL sooner as well. Still, he survived everything simply because there was no way we could deal enough damage, and we could barely get him off the field before he was ready to fight again.

Yeah I see your point there...the beast isnt going to be able to contribute much since spit is DoT and grasp does low dmg.

Even when Oak isnt using shield+hol i find he is one of the hardest to kill as Sedna because of penitance.

Reply #49
NeoVain
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May 19, 2009 4:31:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Towers are easily countered and almost neutralized by armor+health regen, especially late game, they are pretty much worthless. Very few skills are affected by armor, and towers are one of them. Early game they are pretty powerful, which they need to be. Rook needs them to be viable, considering his other skills largely sucks in utility.

Reply #50
NeoVain
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May 19, 2009 4:38:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Also, heart of life+shield is not unique to oak. Erebus can do the same with mist. All DG:s can do the same with orb of defiance (5 sec invulnerability). The difference being that oak can choose to waste skillpoints to get almost the same affect as an item.

 

Another thing people fail to undersand is the erebus "bat swarming" on crucible to base portal and capping it "imbalance" is actually also possible to do by every demigod, either by favor item or store bought items, that teleports you 15 meters. I usually do this with TB for example. Most "cheese" tactics are actually valid strategys, designed into the game to make it more interesting, and can be done by any dg with the right requisites.

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