Biggest Imba's That Need Balancing

And what exactly were you doing for nearly a minute and a half while Rook was apparently wandering around in front of your base, gradually amassing eight towers? Not only do Rook's tower farms take a lot of time to set up, but the things crumble on their own over time, meaning it requires constant effort to maintain. I don't see how people call this overpowered.

I think they're OP when there's only one creep wave.

My experience is different, I don't think rook's towers scale very well, I'd like to see their initial health lowered, but the health gain per point put into the skill increased so they are a little more than just fodder at higher levels, and slightly less of an impassable barrier at the outset. Playing Sedna, Rook is pretty much out of bounds until I buy a bunch of minions to bring them down without taking too much damage. Ranged classes are going to have a lot less difficulty than the melee ones, but I agree that on Prison tower Rooks are overpowering unless the player is complete trash.

Then again I think Prison is the worst map of the bunch anyway, so I avoid it in custom games.

Also I don't think the towers should stick around after the Rook has died, likewise Reg's mines should be removed after he dies. You can nullify a minion build General by killing the General, but you can't EVER get rid of mines as an assassin without taking the hit? Seems a bit odd, though certainly not gamebreaking.

Quoting SkepticalMind,

reply 1

And what exactly were you doing for nearly a minute and a half while Rook was apparently wandering around in front of your base, gradually amassing eight towers? Not only do Rook's tower farms take a lot of time to set up, but the things crumble on their own over time, meaning it requires constant effort to maintain. I don't see how people call this overpowered.

It can happen quite easily, all that needs to occur on Prison is that you lose the initial skirmish and the rook takes one of the flags, from that point on you are very much fighting an uphill battle to regain whichever flag the rook has tanked up. Then he's going to extend the farm across the entire front gradually, his towers killing most of your creep as they approach while he runs around (albeit slowly) harassing you. Losing the initial skirmish at the flags is generally not a sign that you're completely screwed, but against rook it definately changes things since he's quite difficult to move once the towers start going up.

It takes longer to kill a towers than it does for the skill to cooldown in most cases in the early stages of the game, which is what makes the strategy hard to deal with.

Ultimately, the rook is pretty crap at everything else though, so I don't see towers as needing a giant nerf, just a slight tweak.

Dalzk the reason you say they are op on prison is that prison is a terrible map. There are no lanes and its just ffa in the middle untill they train you back to base. My advise is not to play on prison just like most people i know.

Prison is one of the main maps that all the good players play and the map they often use in finals for some tournaments. Prison is a good map if anything

Crucible on the other hand...

Just to clarify, Rooks towers are not only OP in Prison. Have you ever had your portal taken in Cataract and then 8 towers spammed around it so there is no way you can take it back?

I know, everything is OP in this game.

I mean, how hard is it to comprehend that almost each demigod has a powerful move? How is that OP?

Quoting DalzK,

reply 6

Just to clarify, Rooks towers are not only OP in Prison. Have you ever had your portal taken in Cataract and then 8 towers spammed around it so there is no way you can take it back?

No, I don't let people sit on my portal flag for 90 seconds to summon that many towers, I get in there and kill said rook because he can't create a tower farm that quickly. When the aforementioned rook attmepts to teleport away since his move speed is too slow to run, I interrupt his tele and demolish him. He could block you off from a lane and work his way down to the portal fromt here, but even then it would take a long time and he would have difficulty getting past your towers if you harassed him at that point.

I know, everything is OP in this game.

I mean, how hard is it to comprehend that almost each demigod has a powerful move? How is that OP?

Im getting fed up with you people saying "everything is OP /endsaracasm" when ever an OP thread is made. Yes most of the time they are complete bull, but have you guys ever stopped to think - Wait, maybe this game isnt perfectly balanced and there are certain imba's in it like every other game that is in existence. Towers were complained about towards the end of the beta too.

Im not saying make towers useless, im just saying give them a small nerf - that is all. From experience they can be way too OP.

No, I don't let people sit on my portal flag for 90 seconds to summon that many towers, I get in there and kill said rook because he can't create a tower farm that quickly. When the aforementioned rook attmepts to teleport away since his move speed is too slow to run, I interrupt his tele and demolish him. He could block you off from a lane and work his way down to the portal fromt here, but even then it would take a long time and he would have difficulty getting past your towers if you harassed him at that point.

So a Rook and lets say a Sedna go to capture your portal, they lock it. The rook puts up two towers. You go in and try to recapture your flag but the two towers and the giants flowing out the portal is too much of an advantage for the opponent, especially with a Sedna behind him. You have to go back to heal or your forced back. By then another two towers have come up. Thats four.

You see how easily the towers can start to stack?

Quoting DalzK,

reply 10

So a Rook and lets say a Sedna go to capture your portal, they lock it. The rook puts up two towers. You go in and try to recapture your flag but the two towers and the giants flowing out the portal is too much of an advantage for the opponent, especially with a Sedna behind him. You have to go back to heal or your forced back. By then another two towers have come up. Thats four.

You see how easily the towers can start to stack?

Now you're playing 2v1. Of course you're going to lose. It's the same as if Reg and Sed cap it and reg puts mines all over the place. Or UB spits on you, or any number of things. If there's 2 of them there you'll need 2 people to remove them.

To make you happy you go in with a Erebus and a Regulus. Same situation and problem.

Quoting DalzK,

reply 10

So a Rook and lets say a Sedna go to capture your portal, they lock it. The rook puts up two towers. You go in and try to recapture your flag but the two towers and the giants flowing out the portal is too much of an advantage for the opponent, especially with a Sedna behind him. You have to go back to heal or your forced back. By then another two towers have come up. Thats four.

You see how easily the towers can start to stack?

You're playing 2v1, you're already losing since they have giants. What you want to walk in as Erebus kill everything, giants and demigods include, then cap the flag?

Here. Have a Delusion.

On a more constructive note, no, i do not think Rooks towers are overpowered.

I have to agree with DalzK. When Rook camps a portal flag, you're screwed.

And if the other team having Giants means you've lost, you've played poorly. Most of the time, it's not game-deciding just having Giants.

I found a good health-stacked Oak player with HoL to be completely impossible to kill in 2v1. It's not like we fed him or anything. In fact, we had more kills, map control, and never had a problem with Oak's ally. Then Oak got HoL.

He hit 6K health mid-game. Late-game, even with full burst damage from Sedna and UB, it was about six seconds to lop off 5000 or so health, six seconds more and he was back at full health, and another six seconds before we could even worry him some more. 12 seconds of PvP combat with absolutely nothing to show for it and another six before we would, and by then his ally has been in the fight for at least six seconds.

It was really frustrating to simply not ever have a possibility of killing him. We got close a few times, but even with Silence, his health was so high and the player good enough that he could always make it back to base or his ally if we were able to drive him off. We would be in no condition to fight after that, and so Oak would come back out and immediately drive us off. Trying to fight 2v2 was just pointless. His ally stacked health and had HoL as well.

I played a tower spammer Rook last night. Towers are not OP, and I would even call them UP late game when I can run head first into and then past the camp of 8 towers to kill a fleeing demigod(as Oak).

Early/mid game they can be frustrating, but they're only OP if you think you can run head first into a tower camp with a rook in the middle. Plus, as many other have pointed out - putting up a camp of 6+ towers takes a minute or more. SO DON'T GIVE THEM TIME TO SET IT UP! Even if you die thats generally 30 secs. Regroup with teammates and take him out. Plus, the all the time the Rook is safe hiding amongest the towers is time he cant be defending other places, so send someone off to make a counter attack. And with how poorly tower scale, they shouldn't give you much trouble at all late game unless you are already trailing behind in levels.

All this theory is nice but you guys will experience it eventually in a game and come crying back here.

Anyway im not saying they are outragiously OP and need to be completely butt fucked, im just saying maybe put a 20% hp decrease on the towers late game.

I have to agree with DalzK. When Rook camps a portal flag, you're screwed.

what about buying caplogs an logg their portals? when they are both staying in ur base, take both portals of them with each one dg at once, so u have 3 portals now. they have...one? (only works well on cataract where no towers are near at the portals)

edit: if they could effort giants and u dont, its over pretty soon, if u cant outlvl them. or if u dont have at least 1 ae class in ur team...

i like rook. but he cant be anywhere on the map. dont give him efford the hole game, or u will loose. giving him a lane alone is one of the biggst faults.

I agree with DalzK on high-level Rook tower HP. I'm sure most agree with Shield+HOL.

What about QoT Uproot? If it did the same damage, just 25% or so faster, it might actually be a viable alternative to shield + ground spikes + auto attack.

I agree on the notion that towers and mines should disappear when the demigod is killed, otherwise they are ok.

what about buying caplogs an logg their portals? when they are both staying in ur base, take both portals of them with each one dg at once, so u have 3 portals now. they have...one? (only works well on cataract where no towers are near at the portals)

They'll easily split up to grab your other flag or come drive you off. Rook could just lock it and TP back and start towers back at base.

Everything is OP until you find a strategy to counter it.

As I said before, a new demigod could do 4000 damage at level 1 and people would still argue that it's not overpowered. Clearly there is a counter for such a beast.

That is how that variant of Rook is meant to be played. If it didn't work, nobody would use those skills.

Adjust tactics accordingly and give him a reason to leave. (double team his side in various ways).

With points put in towers and his shown desire to camp, he is not nearly as Dangerous up to the point he is planting around a flag. He must have played extra well to get to that point.

towers are op on any map, even the larger ones

im not saying make a huge nerf, but as op said make a reasonable change to them

if u disagree either you play rook, still think erebus needs another nerf or u dont like kittens

Quoting AngryZealot,

reply 22

As I said before, a new demigod could do 4000 damage at level 1 and people would still argue that it's not overpowered. Clearly there is a counter for such a beast.

If it has 1 HP, only does melee dmg, has no skills and is slow I see no problem.

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