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Demigod May 14th new version

By on May 14, 2009 3:43:13 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

It’s been another crazy week of re-architecting the way multiplayer match-making works to handle the number of users. 

Today we are pleased to announce the new update:

Here’s what’s new for this week:

  • Additional connectivity optimizations and improvements
  • Lord Erebus: Bite's Mana Cost increased, Damage decreased, Armor Reduction decreased
  • Fix for looping audio track after leaving character select screens
  • Fix for audio volumes not being reset on restart
  • Adding /skipintro command line to bypass intro movies
  • Players will remain connected to facilitator if they fail to connect to other players, provided they can connect to the host. The host ultimately can kick people with problematic connections to others.
  • Favor Items fixes, but still some assorted issues that should be addressed in the next update.
  • Major optimizations to audio on low fidelity settings
  • Fixed bug that occurred if you used an ability after issuing an attack command. This is the "won't chase the demigod I clicked" bug.
  • Sending deltas for partially completed achievements.
  • Each player now saves their own achievements and favor items
  • Fixed partial Achievement saves bug.
  • Fixed a bug that occurred if you accomplished an achievement in game.
  • Fixed a bug in disconnect dialog that would try to update it even if we had determined we did not want to show it
  • Changed resample rate to 24k in Low settings
  • Delayed FMOD initialization until audio LOD is set via options
  • Disabled hitbox interference from announcer messages.
  • Life's Child no longer removes Inner Grace (Sedna fix)

Now, that said, what’s NOT in this update?

  • Robust multiple IP support.  If you are talking to the Internet with more than 1 IP, you may have a harder time connecting. This is because you might connect to 1 player with 1 IP and to another player with a different IP.  We have gotten new code from Raknet to address this but it will take time to integrate and test.
  • Better NAT. We have a slew of improvements to the NAT thanks to the Raknet update we got this week but again, it will take time to integrate and test.
  • Route through host.  This works and we came “this” close to putting it in.  The problem is, not all players are really in a position to be routed through.  Now, my machine could do it. But we don’t have a way for Billy Bob with his DSL line from trying to host a game with 10 players. 
  • Route through dedicated proxy.  This too works but we do not have the code in that lets it intelligently pick which proxy (i.e. someone in Japan is not going to want to use a proxy in Virginia). 

And lastly, let’s talk about 5 on 5.

There have been other peer to peer games.  But the connectivity complexity is C = D * N*(N-1) where N is the number of players and D is the raw data being exchanged.   While Demigod supports 5 on 5 multiplayer in custom, LAN, and single player, I have to tell you, unless you know who you are playing with, you’re asking for trouble if you try to do this with strangers.  Even if you manage to find 10 random people to play with online and they all manage to connect to each other, when you get in game, because the game is synced, you’re going to likely have a non-ideal experience. 

Let’s work through the formula where let’s assume D = 10.

With a 3 on 3 game, which, according to what I’ve seen in Supreme Commander, is the typical largest game people get into, C = 300.  On Battle.net with Starcraft, the max number of players is 8.  C = 560.  But when you go to 10 players, C = 900, nearly double the complexity of trying to do an 8 player game.

What our work has been these last 2 weeks has been to re-architect the system so that we can bring down that D multiplier. That’s the only part we can control.

When trying to connect players together, each player, based on their internet connection and PC performance has their own threshold of what variable C can reach before things fall apart.

In the beta, we were able to bring our variable D down by adding more servers.  And most beta testers had high end connections and PCs so they had relatively high thresholds before variable C had problems.

But clearly, in release, that threshold turned out to be a lot less.  The first inkling that our D variable was way too high was that the pirates who were pounding the server that first week were able to overwhelm our servers.  To put things in perspective, Impulse typically gets around 300,000 users using it each day and it doesn’t even break a sweat.  But a mere 140,000 connections that first week brought Demigod’s online experience to its knees.

We were able to get a reprieve that first week by shuffling users off to a new set of servers to get them away from the warez users. But as the game has continued to sell (and it looks like it’s going to break the 100k milestone shortly).

So the thing we continue to do is try to lower that D variable so that more and more people with marginal systems can get in.  There will likely be lots more updates as we find new ways to squeeze it. In the meantime, your best hope is to try not to go nuts with the # of players unless you know them.

We will probably have another small update tomorrow as we continue to refine this.

+897 Karma | 75 Replies
May 14, 2009 3:47:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Those notes look like last patch's notes?

May 14, 2009 3:48:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

hmm, hopefully you can fix the parts not in this patch asap

May 14, 2009 3:55:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Jesus Christ.

My best friend has had the game since day one, and hasn't been able to connect online. At all. To anybody.

He has Verizon DSL and I tested everything down to reinstalling windows, removing all routing, and plugging directly into the modem.

Every week, I throw out the hope that "The proxy stuff is coming, then you should be able to get through. Then you can finally play."

This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.

May 14, 2009 4:00:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

People with pirated copies never got as far as the P2P complexity issue you raise. Why are you bringing this stupid pirate business up again?

[Edit: To clarify, pirated copies would reach the p2p stage but that traffic would be largely or entirely between the players, so how does that affect stardock. My understand was your servers were overloaded by the game checking for updates upon launch with pirated copies. That has nothing to do with the multiplayer/p2p complexity issue.]

May 14, 2009 4:01:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

good stuff, hopefully i can play more now and wait in the lobby less, it sucks waiting 20-30 minutes to get 5 other people to actually stay in the lobby for a 3v3...

if there were issues with 5v5 known from the conception of the multiplayer part, why was it even included, i have yet to even finish a 5v5 game where no one drops (average is 3 players dropping within the first 5 minutes due to lag).

I also agree with the pirate comment above, it only caused issues regarding the check for a updated patch which slowed stuff down that first 3-4 days till SD got the 2nd patch out. Since then pirated copies should have 0 effect on multiplayer since their Pirated copies don't connect to games threw Impulse.

May 14, 2009 4:02:05 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Shink,
This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.

Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me — I can't get fooled again.

May 14, 2009 4:04:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When I have joined since  the patch, every single server I join has everyone's name as simply "Playername" and I have not been able to connect to anyone, but was fine before.

May 14, 2009 4:15:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've played many 4v4's in Supcom, 3v3 is not a max by any means.

May 14, 2009 4:21:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Shink,
Jesus Christ.

My best friend has had the game since day one, and hasn't been able to connect online. At all. To anybody.

He has Verizon DSL and I tested everything down to reinstalling windows, removing all routing, and plugging directly into the modem.

Every week, I throw out the hope that "The proxy stuff is coming, then you should be able to get through. Then you can finally play."

This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.

 

I haven't been able to play MP since about 5 or 6 patches ago.

My friends been saying the same thing to me each time a patch date is set, and each time it's released I get to say I told you so

May 14, 2009 4:21:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

so basicly changes = fuck all that matters, some in game nerfs and alterations for those that can play.

still no in game network settings page, in game network testing function, decent detection and assigning of direct connection mode (people with correct port forwards still being forced to use NAT shit).

more of the same "we have this great idea or update that we will put up in the future".

 

 

May 14, 2009 4:21:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

at the risk of asking a stupid question, i thought today's update was going to be 1.01? i know it has the changes that were going to be in that, just wondering really...

May 14, 2009 4:22:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have had the games since release and never had an issue connecting with anyone and played 3v3 and 4v4 games without a hitch.  Now since the 5/11 patch I can't even connect to once person.  When I attempt to join a Skirmish, Custom Game or Pantheon all I get is the attempting to connect to players screen and clicking on Connection Information only provides the message, Waiting for connection data.  I used to obtain connection data in at least 5 seconds, now after 15 minutes it still has none. 

Any suggestions?

May 14, 2009 4:28:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

crap and i thought this was a 5v5 game and not 2v2 and 3v3

May 14, 2009 4:36:47 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I was one of those people who could not connect to anyone else until quite recently.  Wellp, I wish I could roll back to the previous patch.  Things were working smoothly for me but now I have trouble even joining the lobby of custom games and end up playing against AI in pantheon, granted I was able to get into a match to begin with.  Sigh, I guess I'll have to wait for the next patch again

May 14, 2009 4:36:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Shink,
Jesus Christ.

My best friend has had the game since day one, and hasn't been able to connect online. At all. To anybody.

He has Verizon DSL and I tested everything down to reinstalling windows, removing all routing, and plugging directly into the modem.

Every week, I throw out the hope that "The proxy stuff is coming, then you should be able to get through. Then you can finally play."

This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.

 

"Jesus Christ"..... Calm down.

Why are you here bitching for your "Friend", can your friend not read frogboy's updates himself. You realize that you do not need to be the "fool" messenger right? Perhaps if your friend actually read Frogboys updates, he would realize all the hard work and effort that is being put into fixing the connectivity problems. While yes the situation is highly frustrating, they are working extremely hard to correct the problems. Your friend can either continue to be patient, and wait it out, or he can take up Stardocks offer for a full refund.

The choice is his.

May 14, 2009 4:39:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

war3 has 12 players, just saying...

May 14, 2009 4:41:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 C = D * N*(N-1),  Whatever, this should have all been plan ahead.  Warcraft3 can do it 5 years ago with 10 players.  People had alot slower computers and connections back then.   I played warcraft3 since day1 for many years without any of the issues I faced in Demigod.

I just want to rage quit every time I play with someone who has a simspeed of 1 right from the begining of the game.

Good luck, I know it'll all be fix someday and we can laugh at this.

 

 

 

May 14, 2009 4:44:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Covenn,


"Jesus Christ"..... Calm down.

Why are you here bitching for your "Friend", can your friend not read frogboy's updates himself. You realize that you do not need to be the "fool" messenger right? Perhaps if your friend actually read Frogboys updates, he would realize all the hard work and effort that is being put into fixing the connectivity problems. While yes the situation is highly frustrating, they are working extremely hard to correct the problems. Your friend can either continue to be patient, and wait it out, or he can take up Stardocks offer for a full refund.

 

 

maybe his friend is sick to death of the lack of progress so has stopped looking at the forums that constantly spout assurances about some big breakthrough or a team of network coders being flown in to deal with it yet never seem to deliver whats promised?

perhaps this person feels that its worth passing on the poor experience his friend has had.

May 14, 2009 4:47:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Covenn,

Quoting Shink, reply 3Jesus Christ.

My best friend has had the game since day one, and hasn't been able to connect online. At all. To anybody.

He has Verizon DSL and I tested everything down to reinstalling windows, removing all routing, and plugging directly into the modem.

Every week, I throw out the hope that "The proxy stuff is coming, then you should be able to get through. Then you can finally play."

This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.
 

"Jesus Christ"..... Calm down.

Why are you here bitching for your "Friend", can your friend not read frogboy's updates himself. You realize that you do not need to be the "fool" messenger right? Perhaps if your friend actually read Frogboys updates, he would realize all the hard work and effort that is being put into fixing the connectivity problems. While yes the situation is highly frustrating, they are working extremely hard to correct the problems. Your friend can either continue to be patient, and wait it out, or he can take up Stardocks offer for a full refund.

The choice is his.

 

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
 


 


 

 

Dude, we both paid 40 bucks for what amounts to a paid beta. I've been calm for the last few weeks. My friend doesn't care to read status updates and has no interest in how hard they are working to earn the 40 dollars he ALREADY paid.

It should work out of the box. That may be unreasonable, but I'm sick of trying to retain interest in a game I'd like to love, only to have its functionality delayed yet again. So I'm going to bitch about it right here, in this post.

That okay with you? No? Too bad. Shut up.

 

 

EDIT: Leaving the post the way it was, so it doesn't look like I just tried to cover up the brash and unnecessary attitude.
That being said, I apologize Covenn. Novex put it much more gracefully than I could have just one post above.

May 14, 2009 4:50:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I wonder if it would be possible to display simspeed before the game starts? I really am not too familier with it.

Also when someone mentions they have verizon DSL, mention what speed you have , if you have the basic plan 768/128 , you should NOT be playing a 5vs5.

May 14, 2009 4:59:31 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Somazx


People with pirated copies never got as far as the P2P complexity issue you raise. Why are you bringing this stupid pirate business up again?
[Edit: To clarify, pirated copies would reach the p2p stage but that traffic would be largely or entirely between the players, so how does that affect stardock. My understand was your servers were overloaded by the game checking for updates upon launch with pirated copies. That has nothing to do with the multiplayer/p2p complexity issue.]

I didn't claim it had anything to do with variable D.  My point was that it demonstrated the fragility of the servers.

May 14, 2009 5:01:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting lordkosc,
I wonder if it would be possible to display simspeed before the game starts? I really am not too familier with it.

Also when someone mentions they have verizon DSL, mention what speed you have , if you have the basic plan 768/128 , you should NOT be playing a 5vs5.

 

yeah next itme before i or the host start the game ill ask every one for an answer and hope they answer

May 14, 2009 5:02:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Shink,
Jesus Christ.

My best friend has had the game since day one, and hasn't been able to connect online. At all. To anybody.

He has Verizon DSL and I tested everything down to reinstalling windows, removing all routing, and plugging directly into the modem.

Every week, I throw out the hope that "The proxy stuff is coming, then you should be able to get through. Then you can finally play."

This is the third time i've been made to look like a fool.

I hear the waaaaaahbulance.  Tell your friend to return the game then.

May 14, 2009 5:04:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Blitz64,
 C = D * N*(N-1),  Whatever, this should have all been plan ahead.  Warcraft3 can do it 5 years ago with 10 players.  People had alot slower computers and connections back then.   I played warcraft3 since day1 for many years without any of the issues I faced in Demigod.

I just want to rage quit every time I play with someone who has a simspeed of 1 right from the begining of the game.

Good luck, I know it'll all be fix someday and we can laugh at this.

 

It was planned ahead. I was in the beta and it was fine. And speaking as somebody who was never able to host a game of Warcraft 3 on battle.net, people have a very short memory it seems. Warcraft 3 did not have a great battle.net experience out of the box for those of us who had neatgear routers (google it).

May 14, 2009 5:09:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I couldn't connect to anyone until last patch, since then I have had the luxury playing this awesome game. Its so frustrating we can't all indulge in this together....

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