When pure isn’t pure

IMO, my definition of DRM is really quite simple.

DRM
1) CD/DVD Check (Starforce/Safedisk/*rom/*disk)
2) Installation Limits (Tages/Securom)
3) MUST-run 3rd Party software prior. (Eg, Steam)

Non-DRM
1) No CD/DVD Check
2) User Registration + CD Key input ONCE
3) No installation limits
4) No 3rd party software required to run prior

Hey guys, calm down. This is a misunderstanding, not an Internet jihad against Stardock/RYG/whoever.

Going completely insane on them like this is not helpful when simply pointing out why the page in question is wrong would be a lot more effective.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 2

Hey guys, calm down. This is a misunderstanding, not an Internet jihad against Stardock/RYG/whoever.

Going completely insane on them like this is not helpful when simply pointing out why the page in question is wrong would be a lot more effective.

If you go over to their site, you'd see that their Admin, Kathleen, had already ruled judgement and she hasn't even got a copy of the game. Then they come here all high and mighty and authoritative.

It's all "reports from this and that and blah blah". I heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who has the game. No facts. No evidence. NONE.

They didn't try the other communication channels to get to Brad. All they did was PM, yes a PM. And when he didn't reply, down came the hammer, guilty as charged, "We, RYG find the defendant, Stardock guilty of having DRM." It's like putting an innocent guy in jail without having all the facts and evidence. Seriously, at this point, I have no respect for the admins of that website.

I posted a single post just forwarding Brad's email address and I got accused of flaming. Can you believe it? I couldn't even bother justifying a reply.

Seriously, I have my copy of Demigod and I have multiplayer issues but I'm still defending Brad because it's a matter of principle. I still have a beef with Stardock, not because of DRM but because I can't play the game online in Pantheon/Skirmish.

Quoting saraswati,

reply 1

Firstly, we were trying to work out whether Goo constituted a DRM, but as you referred to it yourself as a DRM in a previous blog post here, we took you at your word. If you now feel it's not DRM, I'd love to hear what makes you now consider Now, as all of the other content in that section uses no copy protection or DRM of any kind, your content no longer fitted in that category and we ahd to remove it. If we get to the point we've got more straightforward copy protection games listed, we would be able to put those games back.

Goo is not used yet, so why did you remove Stardock from the list?

Quoting saraswati,

reply 1

In relation to the privacy concerns, this is a legitimate issue. Severl people on my forum expressed the same concern. A good chunk of people out there get very worried about what happens to their personal details when they share them with a company.

Besides a user name and a password, you do not have to give any personal details away, in order to use Impulse.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 2

Hey guys, calm down. This is a misunderstanding, not an Internet jihad against Stardock/RYG/whoever.

Going completely insane on them like this is not helpful when simply pointing out why the page in question is wrong would be a lot more effective.

The problem is, that they did not make any effort in making an informed decision.

Quoting Spooky,

reply 5

The problem is, that they did not make any effort in making an informed decision.

That statement had more reason to be if they'd be a company with hired people. They're volunteers working for a common cause with limited resources and a thousand things to do.

They screwed up, but so did you and I at one point. I believe they are now better informed and more capable to make their own decisions in this matter. I'm sure Frogboy will have some time *cough* to respond to their questions about GOO. I'm also interested to know more about it.

It's with Publishers not making any effort to understand their own market and screwing up with idiotic DRMs that I'm more concerned about...

. I'm sure Frogboy will have some time *cough* to respond to their questions about GOO.

After reading the thread on Prism, they may think that Elemental uses GOO because Brad told that Elemental will implement a functionnality available with GOO, the ability to have used license. This is point #2 in that thread https://forums.demigodthegame.com/344320 and could be read as using GOO in Elemental to achieve that.

I am pretty sure that Brad thinks more to have Elemental available on the future Impulse market place as a title that can be sold. Here is the Impulse road map https://forums.demigodthegame.com/345381

Quoting Peace Phoenix,

reply 7

. I'm sure Frogboy will have some time *cough* to respond to their questions about GOO.
After reading the thread on Prism, they may think that Elemental uses GOO because Brad told that Elemental will implement a functionnality available with GOO, the ability to have used license. This is point #2 in that thread https://forums.demigodthegame.com/344320 and could be read as using GOO in Elemental to achieve that.

I am pretty sure that Brad thinks more to have Elemental available on the future Impulse market place as a title that can be sold. Here is the Impulse road map https://forums.demigodthegame.com/345381

Thanks! I posted your info there.

Quoting Shirley,

reply 7

Win

100% win

So, this thread has done nothing but reveal RYG as a bunch of paranoid children who have their heads stuck so far up their own ends that they deign not to answer for their own stupidity, instead they forge ahead clinging to the only thing that might lend them a speck of credibility, a screenshot of a PM.

Seriously, any smart individual would've given up on this lost cause, but now every troll on this forum is suddenly looking at migrating to somewhere new...If it wasn't for that god awful DRM forum they use -.-

hey're volunteers working for a common cause with limited resources and a thousand things to do.

That only partially flys. They've stepped into a position of authority, and simply because they don't have the resources the 'big boys' do only excuses them from the things they can't do without those resources. Putting a good faith effort into contacting someone doesn't require a lot of effort. An e-mail to go with a PM is a minimal level of utilization. I'd add in snail-mail and phone for something like SD, whose contact info is so readily available.

'pure' win, karma

To RYG:

Demigod's online activation is not required to play the single player game. It is required to play online multiplayer (name me a multiplayer that doesn't require this) and to download patches. This simply means that pirates don't get all the great post release support, which considering they didn't pay for it, is perfectly fair. Once this is done Stardock has a record saying 'this copy of Demigod belongs to this person', which also means that they can freely download the game again off the internet should they get a new computer etc. If you don't want this then you are perfectly allowed not to register the game.

GOO is not actually used on Stardock's own products. It was invented as an alternative to publishers that insist on using some form of DRM. Stardock's response is "we don't approve, but if you insist on using DRM then use this non-intrusive program of ours instead of the invasive and draconian ones like SecuRom".

Poor old Frogboy's lack of a reply is no disrespect to you, but simply a matter of time, not surprising given the chaos caused by Gamestop messing up Demigod's launch.

Please make this clear to you users.

PC Games have been using CD-Keys for many years before the annoying DRM shit came around, where have these people been?

If they claim needing Impulse is DRM then I LOL at them. Steam would fall into this same category as Impulse....LOL @ them.

From my own experience you only need impulse for updates and multiplayer. You can play SP tournaments and Skirmishes wihtout the need of an internet connection.

I read some of the posts and again LOL@them

-Jollyrigger

I apologize, as I believe this all stems from something that I said. I don't think any of us consider requiring activation for multiplayer or patches DRM. Many of us also do NOT believe that GOO sounds like a restrictive, invasive, or altogether unpleasant DRM. However, there was some miscommunication about Demigod in particular, which I believe this discussion stems from.

I originally posted on this forum (post: http://forums.stardock.com/346735 ). Notice around the 4th post of the thread, I ask about Demigod singleplayer, and whether it requires online activation. The immediate response was that "ONCE". Were that a fact that Demigod required activation (which the 5th post suggests), that would constitute (in my mind) a (MILD) form of DRM.

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Err, Single Player and LAN do not require any authentication.

Now this site is saying Demigod is not DRM free because to play online you have to enter a CD-Key? Hello?

Quoting UTtheLofty,

reply 16

I apologize, as I believe this all stems from something that I said. I don't think any of us consider requiring activation for multiplayer or patches DRM. Many of us also do NOT believe that GOO sounds like a restrictive, invasive, or altogether unpleasant DRM. However, there was some miscommunication about Demigod in particular, which I believe this discussion stems from.

I originally posted on this forum (post: http://forums.stardock.com/346735 ). Notice around the 4th post of the thread, I ask about Demigod singleplayer, and whether it requires online activation. The immediate response was that "ONCE". Were that a fact that Demigod required activation (which the 5th post suggests), that would constitute (in my mind) a (MILD) form of DRM.

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Alas, that poster was incorrect He was describing GOO, which does indeed require a one-time activation when you first launch the game.

But, since Demigod doesn't use GOO, it does not apply there.

There is a subtle but important distinction between retail and digital, and this goes for all SD products past, present, and future: the retail disks do not have activation. The digital download "does", but it's completely transparent and it basically just tells SD that you downloaded it. There is a system that tracks installs for accounts, but it is not a simple "x activations" limit. It cares a lot more about frequency and geographical location, and since it's account based it ties activations to your account and not your machine ID (so upgrading your PC will not cause a re-activation). It won't care if you've activated it 10 times in a year. It might just care if you've activated it 10 times in a day, from 10 different parts of the country.

Quoting Annatar11,

reply 18

But, since Demigod doesn't use GOO, it does not apply there.

I was under the impression that a publisher would be able to choose which part of GOO it would want active. Just the DRM, the second-hand marketplace, across-platform compatibility or any of those combinations.

That way, Stardock would still retain a no DRM policy with the boxed versions of a self-published game, but still have the other GOO capabilities over Impulse. This does need some clarification.

As for GOO's privacy concerns, I believe that's still being worked out.

Stardock does incorporate DRM though. Regardless of what you as a consumer want to define DRM to mean the use of a software key is DRM, period. The issue is that this website and a lot of others throw around loaded words like DRM which are implying it's anti consumer, restrictive, or will ruin the experience of a legitmate consumer over something that doesn't have DRM *which if you could actually find any software like that today it will be a miracle* which is does not.

As for the anti DRM crowd look at it like this. Your car has locks on it and you're giving a "key" so only you can use it. Why would you develope software without locks and a key so everyone else can roll onto the scene and take it for a ride without owning it?

Silly people.

DRM =/= BAD

The Stardock Customer Report for 2008 has a few pages dedicated to Stardock's position on DRM. I think everyone who hasn't should download a copy and read it.

Stardock does incorporate DRM though. Regardless of what you as a consumer want to define DRM to mean the use of a software key is DRM, period. The issue is that this website and a lot of others throw around loaded words like DRM which are implying it's anti consumer, restrictive, or will ruin the experience of a legitmate consumer over something that doesn't have DRM *which if you could actually find any software like that today it will be a miracle* which is does not.

Simply put, the technical meaning of DRM =/= to the vernacular version. Ergo, no.

Heavenfall

comment 57

So what do people think? Does having to register to download updates for demigod constitute DRM?

No having to register to download updates does not constitute a DRM, as least not for me...

...BUT having a DRM being installed as soon as you update the game, DRM that will then force you to reactivate the game online if you ever try to move it to another computer, then that IS definetly a DRM, and that's sadly exactly what happens for Sins and Demigod do.

It might not be "draconian" DRM, but the thing that bother me with that is that Stardock communicates a lot on their "DRM-free retail versions" policy, which is true, the version on the DVD is DRM free, they just forgot to mention that this DRM-free-ness is only temporary and will stop as soon as you ever update the game, in my opinion it would be better if SD was clearer on the subject, a lot of people make the mistake (like I did) to think that the retails versions of SD's games are and will remain forever DRM-free which is not the case.

RYG guys that have no sense of humor, this post is funny. You're supposed to laugh. Even if he's purposefully ignoring you because he's an asshole that hates his customers, it's a funny post. A sense of humor is mandatory for surviving life.

...BUT having a DRM being installed as soon as you update the game, DRM that will then force you to reactivate the game online if you ever try to move it to another computer, then that IS definetly a DRM, and that's sadly exactly what happens for Sins and Demigod do.

You must be doing something wrong. I bought Sins in December and activated it through Impulse once. Since then I've installed Sins on at least 3 of my laptops and computers. Have never had to 'reactivate' anything. Just installed Impulse, logged in and installed.

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