When pure isn’t pure

why should Brad Wardell, the CEO of a very well run company with an excellent record for concern for their consumer (what other game publisher has created a "gamer's bill of rights"?), have any respect whatever for reclaimyourgame.com?

reclaim is just a web forum that caters to a particular point of view. its users are motivated either by paranoia or a desire to get away with piracy or both. its really not a very respectable community you've got there.

these concerns for "privacy" are utter non-sense. you can't function as a member of modern society if you insist that no private entity is ever allowed to know basic things about you. you can't even buy telephone service or get a checking account without providing a huge amount of "private" information. unless you live in a shack in the woods and do all of your business with cash you have no ability whatever to maintain your "privacy". this is non-sensical tin foil hat paranoia.

the far more relevant case against DRM is that it degrades the quality of the product. Stardock doesn't use that type of stuff at all though. their validation system is 100% passive and runs in the background. Stardock products are generally higher quality than alot of their competition because they avoid draconian DRM and stick only with non-invasive passive validation systems. criticizing Stardock or Brad Wardell is the last thing you should be doing, they may be one of the only game publishing companies in the world trying to move the general business model of their industry in a more consumer friendly direction.

This Thread-

Forces of Light:

Frogboy (Oak? I think he's like Oak. Or possibly Rook.)

GunslingerBara (Senda? because she's a healer and Gunslinger's in tech support?)

Forces of Darkness:

Sarawati (Queen of Thorns)

Sblade1 (Lord Eberus/Unclean Beast)

FIGHT!

Whoever wins, it will be AWESOME! I think we can credit Frogboy with Firstblood. I've played games across the spectrum of DRM, and have had the fewest headaches and best support from Stardock and Impulse. (Steam comes in second, but that's a battle for the future!)

LAWL. Forget those people Brad.

I just went to their forum and read through a post with their admins talking to each other. My advice Brad, Stay away from the negative people. Don't let them drain your energy. Be positive. Positive mindset. Let them say what they want to say. At the end of the day, it's not about who is right. It's about you believing that you are doing the right thing. You don't have to justify yourself to them. Your articles have appeared in many game magazines and web articles. They have emm.. well just their website.

As long as I can play without running Impulse and play Single Player, in my opinion, that constitutes as DRM free. It's a totally different feeling from playing a game that requires a discheck or has an installation limit.

I don't see how having an Impulse account constitutes as having DRM.

Looks like my Email, my ISP internet account, my Gamespy, Fileplanet, VPN, workplace LAN are all some sort of DRM according to this website's definition.

Rest assured Brad, if there were a form of DRM that you secretly implemented, we'll be the first ones to sniff you out. Not some website with some self-righteous people who think they know what they are talking about.

Ironically, I would've posted, but the need to register threw me off.

Frogboy

comment 50

I've never received any emails from you. Other people do not seem to have a problem contacting me as I get a lot of emails each day. I cannot ignore an email I did not receive.
Using Outlook's search, I found no emails from "Reclaim your game".
I received an email from one of our users regarding the article on your site and linked to it.
As for how I will be perceived versus you, I will let your own words speak for themselves.

Hi Brad

We did not email you, I pm'd you at Stardock on the 12th of April and got no response. I can send you a screenshot with that pm if you like? All our responses were trying to sort out was some questions we had about Goo.

Kathleen

We did not email you, I pm'd you at Stardock on the 12th of April and got no response. I can send you a screenshot with that pm if you like? All our responses were trying to sort out was some questions we had about Goo.

My PM stack in just this forum is 230 from just this week alone not counting the 470 from last week. I apologize to you and everyone else who PMs me here on the forums but I am currently not in a position where I can respond to a forum PM in a timely way.

I would suggest emailing my executive planner Kristen (kristen.white at stardock.com)

So what do people think? Does having to register to download updates for demigod constitute DRM?

I kind of think it does. But it is a very, vey mild version. Nevertheless, some access is restricted to publisher content. An extra step, if you will, that the legitimate user has to go through if he wishes for the updated version. Although since the form of the restrictions are so loose, I would still hesitate to call it "DRM", since that particular phrase now has its own implications.

Still, it is their business model to "reward" the legitimate customer with patches and some additional content. And to do that there must be some way to separate legitimate from illegitimate users. In a sense, their business model is built on a form of DRM (once again hesitating to use the term) since it is based on restricting some access to new stuff. Still, it should be noted that while patches and such do require registration, the original game has no form of DRM whatsoever.

The gamer's bill of rights, which is not violated by this:

Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

Seriously, Kathleen and whoever the fuck you guys are, you guys are complete idiots. If you guys think that Stardock is becoming all draconian and shit, you can go play another fucking game and the rest of the world will go on, not giving two shit about you and your lameass website. It is completely fucking obvious that you guys couldn't win 2 cents with your knowledge on DRM.

Oh yeah, and I have to login to gog.com to download my old games. Doesn't that mean it is protected by DRM? With your logic, it should be. And I must enter a code to play my game from Kloonigames. Doesn't that mean that the company falls under a DRM company? And you listed Sierra as a non-DRM company JUST because they released one game without DRM? That's complete bullshit. And who the FUCK is Positech? Some game company that makes sims for 40 year old virgins? Because sure looks like it. No shit they don't have DRM, no one would by their games regardless. Oh, and what about those Flash games? I don't have to login when I go on addictinggames.com.

Point is, DRM is an important part in the process of making a game, and it is only natural that SD include it in some way that allows them to cut losses from pirates (in this case, forcing them to log into Impulse makes sure the pirates stay away from the official servers). No one is complaining about DRM, everybody has been using DRM since 1980-whatever, when they had to input a fucking word from the manual. What people ARE complaining about, however, is this DRM bullshit like SecuROM, where they only let you install the game 5 times and leave a rootkit in your system, making it ridiculously hard to actually play the game you legally buy despite the fact that the people who are the reason for the draconian system are bypassing it easily.

You guys, don't know shit. You don't know shit about gamers, you don't know shit about DRM. You guys are just fucking attention whores who thought it would be all cool and stuff to dress up and play knight in shining armor. Honestly, fuck you guys.

kristen.white at stardock.com[/quote][quote who="Frogboy" comment="56"]

We did not email you, I pm'd you at Stardock on the 12th of April and got no response. I can send you a screenshot with that pm if you like? All our responses were trying to sort out was some questions we had about Goo.
My PM stack in just this forum is 230 from just this week alone not counting the 470 from last week. I apologize to you and everyone else who PMs me here on the forums but I am currently not in a position where I can respond to a forum PM in a timely way.
I would suggest emailing my executive planner Kristen (kristen.white at stardock.com)

Hi Brad

I will send your an assistant an email with the screenshot of the original pm attached so you can see that I DID attempt to contact you and get our questions addressed.

For the rest of you guys, I've no need to respond any further. I have work to do and people to help.

Kathleen

http://reclaimyourgame.com/

Quoting vindKtiv,

reply 8

WallofText

You need to chill dude. Why let others get you down bro? And when you're chilled, remove your swear words aye?

@ vindKtiv: That was not appropriate. They are entitled to their opinion just as you are entitled to your's. I believe that you could get your point across just fine in a more polite manner and be less likely to start a war.

@ sarawati: I would like to apologize for the offensive poster and politely request that you hear us out.

I think that this whole debate stems from different ideas about what DRM is. The people from Reclaim feel that any game that requires something beyond installing to play and update has DRM. Stardock feels that having legit owners register their game for updates is a valid requirement and doesn't interfere with the gaming experience.

IMHO, I agree with Stardock. A publisher has a right to protect their intellectual property, but does not have the right to infringe on the gamers privacy. Registering Demigod is optional but probably a good idea.

Guys, don't bother typing another word to "Kathleen" and (omg, is this REALLY his handle???) "Switchblade" (shiver/shake/cower). Just relax in a hamick, drink some lemonade, and hold up a mirror every time they start to speak. . .

What I don't understand is why did Stardock only got removed from the "Free of DRM" list when they annouced GOO? Is it because they only decided to realse what they have been using themselves for a while? The DRM on SOASE is no Different than the DRM on Demigod. So, why did they only get removed recently?

faroguy

comment 61

@ vindKtiv: That was not appropriate. They are entitled to their opinion just as you are entitled to your's. I believe that you could get your point across just fine in a more polite manner and be less likely to start a war.
@ sarawati: I would like to apologize for the offensive poster and politely request that you hear us out.
I think that this whole debate stems from different ideas about what DRM is. The people from Reclaim feel that any game that requires something beyond installing to play and update has DRM. Stardock feels that having legit owners register their game for updates is a valid requirement and doesn't interfere with the gaming experience.
IMHO, I agree with Stardock. A publisher has a right to protect their intellectual property, but does not have the right to infringe on the gamers privacy. Registering Demigod is optional but probably a good idea.

Allow me to also put out an apology for Blade...he gets a little...errr...'heated' at times.

My own feelings on DRM pretty much mirror your own, actually. I definitely agree that anyone who creates something most definitely has the right to protect their created property. And I have no problem using a system such as Impulse or anything else that's simple and non-intrusive. Really, the only DRM I actually take issue with and refuse to deal with is SecuROM and the like.

Hell, my only 'problem' with Impulse is that they haven't had a sale for awhile...and that's somethong my bank account probably doesn't mind.

Servius : Whoops, you must have been posting at the same time I was. I actually agree with you on that score...I made the case at the time nothing had actually changed.

Reclaim Your Game....Fail.

Assumptions are a bitch... I'm saying this to all parties involved. I actually appreciate what both Reclaim Your Game and Stardock have been doing.

The question pertains Demigod and DRM. So, for some reason the questions didn't get to Brad. It happens. RYG thus places their comments, but Brad does not agree to them. No problem. It's ALWAYS a good time for communication and dialogue, right? Since the main protagonists are already engaged in this thread, how about if Frogboy just answers RYG here?

@SBlade: You have displayed better cool headedness in other occasions. You're one of the good guys. You know me as "Merkar", from other places.

Cheers.

Quoting Servius,

reply 13

What I don't understand is why did Stardock only got removed from the "Free of DRM" list when they annouced GOO? Is it because they only decided to realse what they have been using themselves for a while? The DRM on SOASE is no Different than the DRM on Demigod. So, why did they only get removed recently?

qft

Their argument is about that Goo thingy. However it hasn't been implemented yet and they made a hasty decision based on Brad's inability to reply a PM in a timely manner.

My boss always tells me "When I can't reach a client, I always have other means, if he doesn't pick up his cell, I call his house, if not, I'll get his email, I'll write to him via snail mail, there is no way I can't reach anyone I choose to reach."

And when I read that the queries were sent in a PM that was not replied to and then a decision was made based of that, I can't agree because they simply did not try hard enough.

VoodooKing

comment 68

Their argument is about that Goo thingy. However it hasn't been implemented yet and they made a hasty decision based on Brad's inability to reply a PM in a timely manner.
My boss always tells me "When I can't reach a client, I always have other means, if he doesn't pick up his cell, I call his house, if not, I'll get his email, I'll write to him via snail mail, there is no way I can't reach anyone I choose to reach."
And when I read that the queries were sent in a PM that was no replied to and then a decision was made based of that, I can't agree because they simply did not try hard enough.

I agree with you. It was a bad call.

I wrote this in another thread but it was kind of off-topic for there, so I'm going to repeat it here.

There is a vernacular definition of DRM and a technical definition. 95% of gamers wouldn't consider things like registering to download updates or using CD keys to be "DRM", the term has applied almost entirely to things like the copy protection used in some EGM games etc.

So a short conclusion then would be, no one is offended or outraged by Demigod's highly limited safeguards besides maybe a few pirates and some guys having fun with their forum.

Reclaim Your Game has been doing an overall good job so far. Everyone is able to make mistakes now and then.

I think that most users in this thread are replying with valid points, but I'm not too fond of the more exacerbated approach that some choose to use...

Anyway, I gave myself the trouble to *finally* create an account in RYG's forum and started a thread about the subject in question there: http://www.the-prism.com/index.php?topic=2261.msg25726#msg25726

Feel free to point out any possible incorrections from what I stated.

Cheers.

Reclaim your game = fail.

Don't feed the trolls. Demigod producers and developers have more relevant things to do.

aLap

comment 71

Reclaim Your Game has been doing an overall good job so far. Everyone is able to make mistakes now and then.
I think that most users in this thread are replying with valid points, but I'm not too fond of the more exacerbated approach that some choose to use...
Anyway, I gave myself the trouble to *finally* create an account in RYG's forum and started a thread about the subject in question there: http://www.the-prism.com/index.php?topic=2261.msg25726#msg25726
Feel free to point out any possible incorrections from what I stated.
Cheers.

I responded to your post over there, but wanted to catch up with you here as well (was glad to see you joined, by the way). I pretty much agree with what you had to say. What can I say besides...everyone's bound to make a mistake sometimes.

I am perharps mistaken, but it looks like that the problem with Demigod is linked to the following facts:

- the retail copy is copy free.

- there was a 0-day patch available at launch requiring registration of the serial id, and it can be associated with only one e-mail.

- in order to choose suceesfully Internet in the Demigod menu, you need to have the latest available version

- the retail version was programmed to check if updates were available as soon it was launched

- the various threads from stardock members explaining how to successfully register Demigod may have been perceived as a mandatory step in order to play the game.

Quoting saraswati,

reply 13

PurplePaladin I was as appalled about what happened with Demigod as everyone else, especially considering that it looks like a good, well constructed game. That's their call.. Everyone has to make their own decision.

But as much as we love Brad and Stardock (and we do) it doesn't mean we're going to not question anything he does. It's our right as customers who want to look at buying the game to feel safe buying it.

Are you stupid or just trolling? It's common knowledge that Demigod and Sins of a Solar Empire doesn't have any DRM. You can copy paste it to any computer and it will run.

Having to use an account with a valid CD key to play online is not DRM, it's the selling point. Stardock's stance is "do not do anything that upsets legitimate customers", and that means no SecuROM-like DRM, but that doesn't mean avoiding to have to input a CD key when registering for an account.

Registering for updates is like registering your refrigerator for warranty. Stop being so anal.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.