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Demigod: Day 6 Status Report!

By on April 21, 2009 5:57:51 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

image Greetings!  Tons of different things to talk about today so bear with me.

Based on the logs, multiplayer is working pretty decently for most people but for others it is completely broken.  A program called Game Ranger has helped a lot of people but there’s a lot of warez users on there.

Let’s talk about the pirates

I’ve read a lot of misconceptions out there. First, no, we very much don’t like it when people pirate our stuff.  Our position has simply been that people are going to pirate a game whether it has draconian copy protection or not and the people who will buy a PC game will buy it and the people who won’t won’t. 

The first few days of Demigod being miserable on-line was largely the result of us simply not having taken into account the effect pirated copies would have on our server resources. So we had to scrounge servers and get users onto there.

Once we got legitimate users onto the servers that were isolated from the infrastructure that was being pounded on by the pirates, the connection situation improved dramatically as you know.

It’s easy and convenient to blame piracy for the launch debacle of Demigod but that would be inaccurate. Even had Demigod had some nasty copy protection on the DVD, it would still have been cracked and this problem would have come up anyway.

So contrary to what some have said, Stardock’s anti-copy protection stance is not the cause the first few days of Demigod’ connectivity. More like, our inexperience in publishing multiplayer-centric games caused us to underestimate the server infrastructure needed.

We do not intend to change our policy on copy protection. This leads us to the next part.

Understanding how Stardock supports games

Our “copy protection” is to treat our games as a service rather than a product.  Those of you who have our non-games like Object Desktop or Multiplicity know what I speak of.

That is, we keep releasing updates to our games for a long time.  Our publishing agreement with Gas Powered Games includes game updates to the game for at least a year. And after that, we still expect to release updates.

Once the multiplayer connectivity stuff is straightened out, we can start to talk about the kinds of things we can add like team based joining, how clan support should be, what kinds of items people would like to see, what kinds of additional demigods people want, and so on.

But our first priority has to be to those users who find connectivity flakey or just plain non functional. They paid $40 for a game and we have an obligation to help them before we start adding in new features and such.

Stardock’s business model is that our titles generate revenue over a long period of time rather than in the first 90 days. So we look at our journey with you being at the very beginning.

Why we love the community

Another thing that really keeps us going is just how wonderful the community is.  Obviously, it should be clear by now that we weren’t anticipating the kinds of connection challenges some people have run into. Our guys have been working with the guys at Gas Powered Games night and day on resolving them. 

I can assure you that Gas Powered Games is as interested as we are in making sure problems people run into are solve quickly.  Not in some patch a month from now but like updates in a matter of days.

But what really also has made this experience a bit amazing is just how great the community has been to us.  One user (OrleanKnight) sent our team a box of Mrs. Fields cookies.  Other users have sent us cards and pictures their kids have made of various Demigods.  How can you not love such a group of people?

Let’s face it, you guys just rock out there.

Getting the next update out

We’re going to start to try to be a bit more careful about how quickly we put out updates. The last update went out without updating the pantheon security checks to support the new version which resulted in most games not being counted. That’s the kind of thing that haste brings.

That said, as I type this, the team is working on an interim update to Demigod.  It doesn’t “Fix” connectivity issues one way or the other but does provide better error messages (and we still have work there).

For example, one “Fix” that still needs to go in is the “Failed to join game” message in custom games. What it should say is “Game is full”. But a lot of frustration people run into is in the kinds of error messages that are shown (or lack there of). 

I’m pretty sure this update tonight does start to wean experienced users off of AI players in skirmish and pantheon. At the very least, it has the support so it can become a server side change tomorrow.

Eliminating the connection issue

For those who can’t connect (you know who you are) the solution will be the UDP proxy servers. They spent a lot of time today getting them up and starting to test them to see how they work.  Unfortunately, it’s not something that can be done overnight. The team says later in the week they hope to have it ready.

But what that will do is alter Demigod from a peer-to-peer game to a quasi-client-server game that maintains the peer-to-peer performance.  If there are any IT people reading this, feel free to explain to lay people the significance of being able to do this in a couple of days without having to change the game client.  

Long Term

For us, Demigod is a long term commitment. So people who worry about this being like a typical release and move on type thing need only to look at our other games.  We will be continuing to work to ensure Demigod evolves over time.  I look forward to having official tournaments between individuals, clans, etc.  So there is definitely a lot to look forward to.

If any of you have any questions, just comment here and I’ll do my best.

Cheers!

 

Evening update

Just wanted to give you a head's up that we're not going to put out the update tonight. We have it staged but there is a concern about releasing it and then having the team go home in the event there is some unknown problem. So we're going to put this up tomorrow afternoon. Stay tuned.

+912 Karma | 103 Replies
April 21, 2009 11:18:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update. And the update telling us that the update is not going to be released tonight, that was a good idea in case it causes any issues. Glad to hear you are working on connection issues. I have no trouble playing the game online actually, a friend of mine does though so it is good to know. Update should be nice when it comes

April 21, 2009 11:51:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

keep up the great work Stardock and GPG team!!

This game is all full of potential, I can't wait until all these growing pains are behind us, and we can experience this awesome game we all know it will be!

April 22, 2009 12:18:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's updates/ reports like these that makes me feel like I spent my money wisely. I feels great to know that the game is being worked upon.

April 22, 2009 12:25:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update frog.  I really appreciate these.

April 22, 2009 1:00:12 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

One thing I can say is that as a long time Blizzard fan is that they are well known for long support once a game is released. It's no accident people still avidly play SC, WC, and DOTA (yes, I understand that's a non-Blizz map/mod) after all these years. And for that ethic, they were rewarded w/ the cash cow also known as WoW.

It's good to know SD and GPG have the same attitude. For me, a game is not a toy I goof off with for a week or two and then put away...it becomes a hobby and a passion that often spans years.

April 22, 2009 2:05:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great updates, thank you.

I'm hoping you have the /nosound issue in your main list of issues. If people find a significant performance increase by using /nosound on the command line then please post to here https://forums.demigodthegame.com/348232. This issue is a real deal breaker for me

Needs to be a sticky on the /nosound issue imho.

April 22, 2009 2:07:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I find it almost INSULTING that people with pirated copies of the game have an easier time playing via hamatchi etc. then us legit users who can only enjoy the AI flaws at this time.

I should be misunderstanding something here. Are you saying that legit version can't be used with hamachi? That is the only way I can understand your sentence.

April 22, 2009 2:07:49 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Blitz64,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 11
Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.
 

That's because custom games gives an unfair advantage to players.   People can have an arrange team in custom games.  Also you don't know what level of skill the other players are.  So most of the time, you are dominating or getting dominated in custom games.

 

Pantheon/skirmish matches you with same level skill players, or atleast it's suppose to.  So majority will pick these modes just like all other rts games.

I have to agree.  Once the game went live I found all to often that when I joined a custom game, I was greeted by familiar beta players all stacked on one side, while I was stuck with the scrubs.  If I'm not coordinating to play with someone, I pick Pantheon or Skirmish because I know nobody can stack against me.

April 22, 2009 2:37:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Based on the logs, nearly everyone plays pantheon and skirmish games online, not custom games.   I can't tell you why that is though.

 

I'll tell you why,  most people know that the guys starting custom games all know each other and either;

A:  Want to "pugstomp"

B:  Want to go against other teams

It's not a big deal.  Pantheon should remain kind of anonymous instead of allowing pre-made teams to queue up,  OR have a seperate ladder for teams and one for those who queue without one.

April 22, 2009 3:01:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

There should be seperate people working on the connections than are doing gameplay ;o

April 22, 2009 3:23:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting innociv,
There should be seperate people working on the connections than are doing gameplay ;o

It is likely that GPG are mainly looking at the gameplay/bugs right now while Stardock are probably mostly looking at the connection side of things as that's how the 'ownership' is generally divided.  Although I imagine there is cross pollination.

April 22, 2009 3:49:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy, can you please answer my question. It's in the bottom of page 1

April 22, 2009 3:50:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You guys are the most active and honest gaming companies I have ever come across.  Just a note to all those people having problems opening ports, I had a Diamond DSL / Router Combo and opened the ports on the Router settings.  But I discovered that the NAT wasn't working for the last year or so.  Although I was able to connect to other games on the market Demigod just wouldn't budge.  My solution, bought a Netgear DSL / Router Combo and everything is in order.  That wouldn't of happened without Stardock/GPS and the Demigod Community.  A big THANKS to everyone!

The only issue I have now is CRAZY LAGG...  Could that be something with my setup?  Could it be tuning the Demigod servers?  Please share...

Frogboy...  Your the reason why this game and the community flurish! GREAT JOB!!!

April 22, 2009 4:02:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have to say that this is the first time i see a game company so involved in the comments of the community. almost daily updates about how it is going, that is what the community needs, and that is what you give us.

That is absolutely great!

I can't wait to see some new updates I only need the favor points fixed though, everything else works, except the favor points, when i've done some matches, and i look at the achievement section, sometimes its back to where it was when i started.

That might've been because my internet fell out, and that my stats weren't saved. Pity.

 

Good luck guys!

April 22, 2009 4:04:47 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Thanks for the update. Even with the online issues I'm still loving it, think its great game well worth my money, and I'm *loving* the fact its running issue free on the W7 public beta

April 22, 2009 4:52:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Blackwing_dk,

...
As I think my connection problems has something to do with that, I'm a little discouraged that all you mention about the connectivity issues, are the proxy servers.

Is this fix for the NAT stuff you mentioned in the weekend still in the works??

And yes, I know very little about networks

Thanks !

I am no official, but as i understand it should fix your problem too.

April 22, 2009 5:30:26 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Wow.

This level of communication is really great. This should be kept as a great reference from when Stardock, the corporate giant, will have the need of a community coordinator.

Hopefully we'll still have frogboy checking out the forums from the laptop at his beach house.  

 

April 22, 2009 6:10:09 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This level of communication is really great.

It's just smart business

And i'm happy too with it.

April 22, 2009 6:14:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OsirisDawn,

Quoting Blackwing_dk, reply 25
...
As I think my connection problems has something to do with that, I'm a little discouraged that all you mention about the connectivity issues, are the proxy servers.

Is this fix for the NAT stuff you mentioned in the weekend still in the works??

And yes, I know very little about networks

Thanks !


I am no official, but as i understand it should fix your problem too.

 

Experience so far tells me that even with all players connecting from a location (EU in my case) the chance of getting all green isnt close to 100% - so if i understand correctly i assume just the proxy servers wouldn't exactly fix this?

Anyway, i cant wait for some of the fixes to come up - it can only get better i guess

April 22, 2009 6:20:17 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm still a relatively new stardock user. I got Sins of a Solar Empire as a gift a couple months back and came to know Impulse through that.

I must say, I'm beyond impressed with how you guys have handled the connectivity issue and early release. The issue hasn't been a problem for me directly (I've only read about it), but the amount of communication with your users is remarkable. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in the software industry. After reading through the initial problem post and update posts, I felt the need to buy both Demigod and SoSA: Entrenchment.

You've already made a long term customer out of me and I look forward to future purchases on Impulse! I also particularly admire your stance on copy protection. It's nice to see a company that understands their customers.

Thanks!

April 22, 2009 7:04:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

the first thing i have learned as a trainee in software development is to handle ALL! exceptions that could appear...

i think your software development skills are nearly as bad as my english skills ^^

but your game design is awesome, so i hope you can fix all of this shit fast enough...

April 22, 2009 7:33:50 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Reading a down to earth update on the real situation of the game and what you guys are doing to improve it warms my heart and gives me faith in the future of PC gaming. I'll admit, in-game I've been pretty harsh on Demigod's connectivity faults, but only because I can sympathize with others out there experiencing similar frustrations. Out of game however, I've encourage every gamer and friend I know to buy it. You guys have done a wonderful thing (and I was never a fan of DOTA to begin with). So please continue to provide high speed, quality and up the minute support for this game. I have hopes that it will be around and enjoyable for years to come (updates and expansions permitting )

Semper Fi
Derek

April 22, 2009 8:02:37 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I think ill just buy Demigod because of this article I wish more companies were like stardock.

April 22, 2009 8:47:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 Its good to her what you ar doing. I like you guys

 

But will then the Problem with negativ favor points be solved? Its hard to stand in a online game against other player and you cant use any fav item, but the others do. I also not want to lose my Achivemts to one game.

Waht about the diffrent community name to the name when I preordered the game? In mid beta it worked. Now not.

April 22, 2009 8:55:53 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update, and the update on the update I really hope the proxy servers behave as you expect and solve the vast majority of the issues!

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