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Demigod: Day 1 Status Report

By on April 15, 2009 11:32:44 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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I broke my 56 hour day this morning and took a nap before coming back.  One of the nice features of Stardock is that it has developers in the US and in Europe so we can, technically, work on things around the clock if necessary which is something we’re taking advantage right now.

So where are we at?

Today

The system works pretty well if you have a few thousand people online at once.  The system works…less well if there are tens of thousands of people online at once. And if there are over 100,000 people, well, you get horrific results such as the game being incredibly unresponsive due to simple web service calls that were considered pretty benign during the beta that suddenly start to bring down firewalls and such due to the sheer massive number of calls that are being made.

Sadly, most of the ~120,000 connections are not customers but via warez.  About 18,000 are legitimate.  So anyway, we spent a lot of time today  trying to isolate out the warez users from the legitimate users (it would require a lot of surgery to actually break them and even if we did, there’d be no friendly “ha ha pirate” message which would result in people just saying the game is buggy).  Mind you, the game makes relatively few server calls, it’s just the sheer number of people.

Our stress tests had counted on having maybe 50,000 people playing at once at peak and that wouldn’t be reached for a few weeks by which time we would have slowly seen things becoming problematic.  With Sins of a Solar Empire, the game was incredibly successful but its user base grew slowly and steadily over time.  Sometimes on a peak time the server would start to get slow and we would adjust so that it would be better next time.

But here, when you’re getting that many connections at once, you’re no longer talking about dealing with the basics like having a good SAN and lots of redundant servers. You instead fall into all kinds of weird secondary issues that start to pop up like yesterday’s case where an older network card couldn’t handle all the packets (not bandwidth limited but # of tiny packets being sent out at once).  

So during the day today, people couldn’t even logon and in some cases, the Demigod forums, which use one of the affected databases for some piddly thing were even down. Even getting the game running was a pain today because a simple HTTP call to see what the latest version would get hung leaving people looking at a black screen. Stuff of nightmares.

Before the game shipped, I wrote a scary email to our team saying how disastrous things would be and predicted doom for us and GPG if there were problems with multiplayer. At the time, my worry was about things like disconnects and CVP. It didn’t occur to me that we’d have near MMO user connections to throw in.

Tonight

Last night and all day today we’ve been working on multiple fronts. 

First, we’ve been trying to shuttle off the warez users so that they’re not slamming our servers. Well, not slamming the same servers that legitimate customers are using.  I’m feeling pretty confident that that is working better because there’s a lot more people in games with lots of people in them.

Second, we’ve developed a new connection system (pictured below).  The connection stuff in Demigod is not part of Demigod but is rather part of Impulse Reactor which in turn is talking to the various connection servers we have set up to get player A to connect to player B and so on.  It’s not done yet but amongst its new features is the ability for the host to eject players who just can’t connect.

image
This whole new connection service has been written in the past 48 hours.

Third, we’ve greatly expanded our capacity.  I tell you, anyone who wants to know why we delayed Society (MMO RTS we are slowly working on) need look no further than how painful the first 24 hours since the official release of Demigod have been. That was done today and hopefully users have noticed an improvement.

We’re in the process of testing out this new update to put up tonight (less than 24 hours after the street date) that should largely fix this.

Early reviews

The early reviews of Demigod have been very good – in general.

Neoseeker gave us a 10 out of 10.

Crispy Gamer gave us a “Buy It”

But the GameSpot review nailed us because of the connectivity with a 6.5. I’m pretty disappointed about that. [Begin Rant] First, I totally understand that connectivity is central to a game like this. I totally agree. But I think that should be weighted with what the average user who gets Demigod will experience and in reality, as annoying as this issue is, it’s not something that’s going to be an ongoing issue, it’s something that is likely to be taken care of in the next day or two.  So this time next week, players will be happily playing but GameSpot’s review will live on.  I suppose the solution going forward isn’t to send out review copies until the game is released and we make sure there’s no network issues. Afterall, in a week from now, the guy buying it from retail will have a great experience. [End Rant]

The IGN and 1Up reviews are coming up.  So we could be looking at a lot of reviews like that if every reviewer decides to take the same approach Gamespot did which I hope they don’t (luckily for every other on-line centric game that’s had a rough first day or two most reviewers haven’t taken Gamespot’s approach).

Video

We took a video about some of the stuff we’re working on and a little quick tour of Stardock. You can see it here:

image
IGN Video

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April 16, 2009 3:05:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Don't worry Brad, the more veteran gamers among us know full well that multiplayer games (especially those which are peer-to-peer based and/or rely on some sort of central server system) know full well that it takes some time to get everything setup just right. Its very difficult to test for real-world conditions and I don't blame you for some of the issues that do exist due to the excess traffic. You guys are doing a good job so far and some people should just have a little patience (especially considering the whole gamestop debacle which isn't fair to you guys).

While I can't talk for everyone else, the game has been working at 100% for me. I have yet to see any bugs or experience a crash and have not had any difficulty connecting to other players, or in hosting games. The game does indeed work quite well, provided you aren't using a convulted network setup at home that isn't setup properly.

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April 16, 2009 3:12:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy,

 

1. Nice update. Thanks for keeping us informed as always.

 

2. You might ask GameSpot to take another look in a week and issue an update. Something worth looking into, if you haven't considered it already.

3. Way too greedy as Oak in that video.

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April 16, 2009 3:14:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update. I was shocked to see you guys rewrote the connection service in ~2 days. I look forward to your next update.

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April 16, 2009 3:29:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

We're in the process of packaging an update now.

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April 16, 2009 3:47:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

nice to hear and btw maybe you want to update the society page a bit. you are waayy behind the schedule written there

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April 16, 2009 3:57:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
We're in the process of packaging an update now.

 

Excellent job. I'm impressed with your staying power, as I can only go 36 or so hours before I need a good night's rest.

 

Mind if I pick your brain as to the status of the favor reset / negative bug?

 

Quoting Stromko,
The balance seems a little wonky in some cases, and I'm just talking about single-player. Try playing as the Unclean Beast, with allies Rook and Regulus, versus Sedna, The Oak, and Lord Erebus. With normal AI, you'll still probably lose. It seems like Generals are roughly equivelant to Assassins in one-on-one strength, add Minions and they're drastically stronger.

Am I right in assuming that at some point in development they considered making Generals and Assassins just as strong, but making Generals more about buffs, and let everybody have Minions? Because it kind of seems like that now, except not everybody gets minions.

 

Maybe you're playing a hero not your style? I could win in a 1v3 against Normal AI as Unclean Beast (except in Domination, which emphasizes team size differences much more), let alone a fair match.

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April 16, 2009 4:16:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you get horrific results such as the game being incredibly unresponsive due to simple web service calls

When thoses web services calls are made in the warez/retail version? Before or after clicking on multiplayer?

I think that one particular item in the Gamer's Bill of Rights, which is the ability to play single player without requiring to connect to internet should be rewritten this way:

- don't connect to Internet UNLESS required, even if available.

And unless the user chooses multiplayer on Internet, there is no need to try to connect to stardock servers even to check if an update is available.

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April 16, 2009 4:33:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thank you for keeping connected with us Frogboy, you have no idea how much it means to your fan base here to read a status update like this, it really renews the faith and keeps us connected to what's going on so we don't feel so lost and abandoned (even though it's obvious you guys are working on all the issues).

 

Anyways, great post, so excited to see Demigod shine like we all know it's supposed to.  Don't worry about that Gamespot review, they only knock the connection issues, the core game itself is all there, and it's awesome.

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April 16, 2009 4:34:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's nice to see an update being worked on and appiled so speedily I hope it means that I'll be able to enjoy the game that I've already paid for.

 

The Warez server issue sounds like an oversight. Warezing players shouldn't be pulling down paying customers.

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April 16, 2009 5:04:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting WickedDemiurge,

Maybe you're playing a hero not your style? I could win in a 1v3 against Normal AI as Unclean Beast (except in Domination, which emphasizes team size differences much more), let alone a fair match.

 

Maybe I'm just not able to optimize my demigod well enough, or I was playing the Unclean Beast very badly. I just tried a 1vs3 as Sedna vs Beast, Rook, and Regulus on the same map (Crucible) to see if I was right about her being nigh-unbeatable. Well the game did last an entire 50 minutes, but I still did lose. The Unclean Beast was actually the only one able to clean my clock, his damage-over-time spit + melee + ooze aura killed me extremely fast, and since the spawn was set at the default 20 seconds + 2 seconds every death (or something like that), I was getting knocked out of action for half a minute at a time near the end.

It was my first time playing Sedna and I might've done her skills really badly though, the only skill I was able to max out by level 20 were the Yetis. I was able to push the enemy back over and over so long as I didn't get ganked by the beast, but with just one demigod I wasn't able to destroy their fortresses. The Normal AI must know how to kit the beast out a lot better than I did, or I didn't maximize my healing aura enough. I've no idea.

I noticed that the enemy team's War Rank was going up much faster than mine, the funny thing is this was happening even before they started to win any ground against me. So they weren't getting more kills or wrecking towers yet but their tower was developing faster, unlocking things like the forts long before I got the same. I figured since Frogboy had mentioned their intention of setting 1 experienced player versus 3 inexperienced players in the matchmaker there'd be a way to win, but I suppose I'm just not that good at it.. Actually, I think the Normal AI is just smart enough not to make the mistakes that a team of inexperienced players would have to make in order to let an expert solo player beat them.

(edit) Just seems to me that the way the tower gets upgraded, and thus the reinforcements and fortifications also get stronger, this game isn't set up at all for the mismatched teams mentioned in the day zero post, that's the whole point of my last paragraph. I really can't think of a single RTS played in recent history that I wouldn't call 'imbalanced' though. Losing in a 1vs3 match, and losing in a 3vs3 match where the teams are as mismatched as they can get, isn't really grounds to call Demigod unbalanced.

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April 16, 2009 5:48:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

hi i live 20 minutes from your building, want to give me a job?

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April 16, 2009 5:58:12 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SuperMudkipz,
hi i live 20 minutes from your building, want to give me a job?

You're the guy that admitted you hadn't bought the game and was complaining about it as your pirated version wasn't working right?

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April 16, 2009 6:14:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update, feedback appreciated

 

Cheers; Snarl

 

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April 16, 2009 6:59:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

can't wait for this update to be out. thanks for the report

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April 16, 2009 7:15:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i really like the status reports, but reading this there is one big question forming up in my head:

 

Why the hell didn't you guys expect something like this to happen? I mean come on - basically it really IS kind of a DotA rip off (not saying your work is not good) with awesome graphics but which plays kind of slow and has about 50 heroes less. Anyway, my point is, many (and i really mean many) players have been actually waiting for something similar to DotA, but better looking or new in some way, because games get boring by time. Seriously, if you guys would have taken a better look at the international DotA (and over all gamer) scene, you would've known what is coming at you and in the end probably managed to get it work the first days and so on...

just my opinion.

anyway, you guys did a great job with the game and i really want to start playing it right

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April 16, 2009 7:33:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Looks like the new patch was just released,

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April 16, 2009 7:50:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I am a patient boy, I wait I wait I wait I wait...

jk, Ever the humanist, I'm perfectly willing to be patient while some issues get hammered out. I guess gamespot isn't. alas.

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April 16, 2009 8:11:30 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks for the update, and the upcoming patch!

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April 16, 2009 9:23:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the Update, I appreciate being kept up to date . I tend to be a lot more sympathic when there are logical yet unforseen reasons behind problems.

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April 16, 2009 10:40:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Gamespot also criticised Demigod for a lack of story driven campaign, hence calling it an unfinished product. But if you look at Battlefield 2, it has a story, but it doesn't have a story driven campaign either. I think to overlook that for Battlefield 2 and give it a 9.3 but criticise Demigod for the same issue is a double standard on Gamespot's part. Clearly both Battlefield 2 and Demigod are multiplayer-centric games, it seems inappropriate to criticise Demigod for a lack of single player campaign when the fun is focused on multiplayer. I used to refer to gamespot's reviews before purchasing my games, but now I can clearly see how inconsistent they are with their review standards, I'm going to just rely on metacritic from now on.

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April 16, 2009 10:48:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Tamren,



Quoting GreenReaper,
reply 11
Exile 3 was a great game. I actually have the source code to it at home (long story). I really got into Blades of Exile, too, but that was about the time I got into programming and also had to concentrate on schoolwork.


Crikey! I have Exile 3 on my desktop right now! I'm still playing through Exile 1 which I never finished but my favorite memory was using simulacrum to spawm vahnatai lords. Took me over 10 minutes of saving and reloading to get the capture but I eventually did it ! 

 

Or the bug in the game that would allow you to simulacrum ERIKA! Now talk about ass-wiping power right there

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April 16, 2009 11:14:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

good read, now this is feedback from a publisher, where else would u see stuff like this?

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April 16, 2009 5:26:02 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Thanks Brad for the update.

I have to say; don't bother review, they are always wrong. The good one and the bad one. 10 of 10? Ridiculous. Why? How can a review can be so accurate to give a perfect score to a game that can't actually be played properly in multiplayer where 90% of the game resides. The same way a review that give 6.5 take care of the fact that it has a lot of connection issue, but not the fact that it can improve a lot in that in a possibly short time (for that should exist post update review). Given that 6.5 is not that bad: it's more than sufficient and you made a game with good but limited contents (good graphics, few demigod, few combination, few maps, no story driven campaign, a bit unpolished) not so expanded but enjoyable (with still some flaws like balance). I think it's fair enough. You wanted more? Not saying anything about that 10 of 10 and assuming that fair it's a bit naive and pretentious. Also users score on gamespot is near 7.8 so I think that that count more and it's a good and more realistic score.

Being or not being a great fault, it's still developers fault if a game don't come out well in the first days. You proved many times how good can be your works. This time you made a short call but I think that time will correct it and usually your game sell a fair amount even after month. If you need good review to do that...

Still I have faith.,,

One things i don't understand. The thing about pirate connection attempt. I thought you needed to log in with your account to play in multiplayer so how come this turn out to be a problem? Shouldn't it be like trying to login on a forum with the wrong user and pass?

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April 16, 2009 5:36:09 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

A competitive multiplayer game aimed at the Warcraft market suffers piracy?  What a surprise?

Server-side authentication is the best way to kill this pretty much instantly.  Everyone's got a profile, linked to a key, so this system is obviously flawed.  It's not wrong to have robust authentication when you're doing the hosting for the tournament/etc.

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April 16, 2009 5:57:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I thought you needed to log in with your account to play in multiplayer so how come this turn out to be a problem?

Because the game checked for available updates when started, not after login has been made .

In short, even if you xanted to play a single player game, the game connected to Stardock servers to see if an update was available.

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