The Official Demigod Change Request Thread

By Frogboy on March 29, 2009 3:29:09 PM from

Want something in Demigod’s balance changed? Make the case in this thread.

Everyone here at Stardock and GPG can feel the electricity in the air. It’s that feeling, that knowledge that the game you’ve been working on is going to be a hit. Those of you in the game industry know that feel. But for those of you who aren’t let me explain: Game projects take years from start to finish and let’s face it, statistically, most games aren’t very good. And for those on the project, it can be a real morale killer because the teams on those games usually know it long before release but cannot really do much about it. With Demigod, both teams (Stardock and GPG) know they have something special here.

That said, I’ve put together a list of change requests that are in front of us to see what we can do and what we can’t do.

This is the official change-request discussion thread. As these features are changed/added/addressed we’ll update this post.

I. Game options

d. Tower Strength

i. Weak is 2800. Please change to 4200.

ii. Normal is 5600. GOOD.

iii. High is 14000. Please change to 8400.

e. Grunt strength

i. Please change to” Grunt HP”

ii. Weak is 240 HP. GOOD.

iii. Normal is 390. GOOD.

iv. High is 870. GOOD.

f. New option: Grunt Damage

i. Weak: 75% what it currently is.

ii. Normal: what it currently is

iii. High is 150% of what it currently is

iv. Severe is 300% of what it currently is

g. Gold rate

i. Low. please increase by +1.

ii. Normal. Please increase by +2.

iii. High. Please increase by +3.

h. Starting gold

i. add: Please add “low: $0”.

ii. normal is $1000. GOOD.

iii. high is $20,000. Please change to $5,000.

iv. filthy rich is $40,000. Please change to $15,000.

II. Citadel Upgrades

b. Building Firepower. Please reduce cost on each one by 50%.

c. Currency.

i. Currency I. Please change to 4 gold.

ii. Currency II. Please change to 6 gold.

iii. Currency III. Please change to 8 gold.

d. Black Smith

i. Black Smith I. GOOD.

ii. Black Smith II. Please change to 40%.

iii. Black Smith III. Please change to 50%.

iv. Black Smith IV. Please change to 60%.

f. Experience.

i. Experience I. Please change to 20%.

ii. Experience II. Please change to 30%.

iii. Experinece III. Pleae chnage to 40%.

iv. Experience IV. Please change to 50%.

III. In-game Balance

a. Going up a war rank gives all players on that team 1000G.

b. When teleporting, the target destination displays an animation to cue players that someone is teleporting in.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhuPKYyKu5I&eurl=https://forums.demigodthegame.com/342558/page/4/&feature=player_embedded for refrence

c. Torch Bearer

i. Fireball I. Please increase damage from 300 to 400.

ii. Deep Freeze. Cool down penalty on others reduced by 3 seconds on each on.

d. Rook

i. HP decreased by about 10% at all levels.

ii. Boulder Roll 3 stun time reduced to 3 seconds.

e. Unclean beast

i. Base speed reduced to 6.0

ii. Reduce melee damage by about 10%.

iii. Reduce HP or Armor by 10%.

f. Destroying a tower provides 800 gold, destroying a fortress 1600 gold.

IV. New Items

a. Scroll of rebound. $250. Upon use any spells cast on that player or area around player within the following 2 seconds are rebounded upon the caster.

b. Ring of rebound. Instant cast time. Upon use, any spell cast on that player or area around player within the subsequent 2 second are rebound upon the caster.

V. Ongoing Bug issues that must be resolved

a. Disconnects in-game

i. More consequence for disconnecting

ii. The game must be able to cleanly recover from a disconnect.

b. Connectivity

i. Connecting to other players needs to be as reliable as possible

ii. Current beta connectivity dialog needs polishing

c. Pantheon

i. Pantheon experience when connecting needs polish

ii. AI players should be last resort and there should always be at least 1 human player on both sides.

d. In-Game (separate bug database not covered in this thread)

VI. User Interface Requests

a. Tracking toggle button on screen (for new users, the [T] track option for having th3e camera follow and center on the Demigod is very nice but not easy to get to.

b. In the lobby screen, display the Experience rating (from the Pantheon) by a player’s name to make it easier for players to balance custom games.

VII. New Features

a. New Multiplayer Option: Skirmish [Demigod]

i. User selects Skirmish then choose Demigod and then presses Fight

ii. Impulse Reactor puts together players that are balanced to battle it out.

iii. Pantheon displays separate top players for Skirmish.

b. Pantheon Teams [Pantheon]

i. Players can create and join teams

ii. Player s can only belong to one team at a time

iii. Various ranking options based on Teams.

c. Skirmish Tournaments [Pantheon]

i. Not to be confused with the Pantheon itself

ii. Set begin and end date where players participate in a series of Skirmish games with their rankings filtered during the tournament. Top players win prizes.

Version 1.03: Updated March 29, 2009.

+897 Karma | 228 Replies

Given the timeframe these games are to take place in and existing War rank limitations, I don't think a cooldown on Citadel upgrades makes sense. It's true you can horde gold and dump it on upgrading to Giants, but it's already controlled by:

1. War rank, you can't rush straight for them.

2. Gold. Sure, you can hoard gold and dump it all at once, but you've been missing out on Priests / Angels the whole time, putting you at a disadvantage.

hmm, ok. i don't know if a citadel upgrade cooldown is the answer either.

I think what we are seeing in high-level games though is that if you upgrade piecemeal (priests, then angels, then catas, etc) as you get the rank and gold you are actually at a disadvantage, because your waves can be easily intercepted and destroyed for a ton of experience and gold at least until you get catas.

I always enjoy fighting a team that upgrades to priests early, because the small heals to them aren't worth the immediate jump in levels I get. I'll keep investing in items and grunt armor so that when I do buy up you don't have the same advantage.

What usually happens in games with organized teams is that one team buys directly from archers to catas and then the other one either follows immediately, has superior play and can destroy every wave and keep their portals until they can follow, or loses. Rank doesn't really matter much in this style of play, because you need the time rank limits give you to get enough gold to burst anyway..Maybe this is what it should look like, but I thought we should at least talk about it ^^

If there's a concern that it may make other DGs in QoT's team very difficult to kill on later levels, perhaps simply doubling the absorbtion when cast on herself?

I dont like the idea of telling or showing when someone teleport.

I know I use teleport to stun with rook. but some may have notice that I want others to teleport at flag too so I can pown them when they arrive.

If you get fucked by people teleporting. Then its your problem for not being able to receive them.

When im capturing a flag, I either move / capture with a team mate / capturiing and have my boulder already selected and waiting for the sorry guy whos teleporting

I don´t get your point at those short-handed situations TBO. It´s just logical that you´ll most likely lose those situations if you´re facing 2 enemies. Except you´re hard feeded etc.

Quoting Wagnard,

reply 8

If you get fucked by people teleporting. Then its your problem for not being able to receive them.
When im capturing a flag, I either move / capture with a team mate / capturiing and have my boulder already selected and waiting for the sorry guy whos teleporting

Why would they teleport to you when you are two taking a flag? If they got any brains they just go capture the other 2 flags which are left totally free for them. In any case you gain one flag but lose 2, so you are one down. Also perhaps you should try playing something except rook all the time Wagnard, try taking a flag in a 3v3 where the whole other team got Teleports and you use a hero which doesnt got a stun or 8000 hp., Yes they exist.

So please try to understand this simple logic and stop using "I own everything with my OP Rook so let them teleport here thanks, teleport is no problem lolz!" as an argument.

Also the statement "Its your problem if you cant handle getting instajumped by a 8000 hp Rook from the other side of map Which you had NO chance to see coming with a 0.5 sec cast stun and 2.1k single attack" totally nullifies any other points you may have made in that post of yours.

(and then they may just as well turn out to be 3 Rooks jumping you, so if you get instahammered to death by those 3 rooks, it is obviously your own fault for being so stupid as trying to capture a flag, just go back to you base and sit and wait at health crystal till they kill your citadel instead, GG)

As was said previosly 2 second silence and invincibilty to spells will allow people trying to get flag a chance to prepare but they will be unable to get away as was said earlier. Now if u are going to do it i suggest a visual effect or something to show when they can be effected by spells again, or when they can't. It will aloow a possible chance for Rook to miss because than his lowness will be brought into effect as it should, because if a Rook gets up close with u your basicly already dead as long as hes not noob. I am not sure if this will work so worst thing in the world is they take it out no big deal, but it could work and enough people support it so i think we should give it a chance.

Quoting db0,

reply 7

A suggested change for Queen of Thorns (which I've been playing primarily recently), I would like the later levels of Bramble shield to get some increased HP. As it is, in the lower levels the bramble shield is just right to protect against similar level DGs but in later levels it really does not do anything. It is gone in practically 2 hits from most assasins.

If there's a concern that it may make other DGs in QoT's team very difficult to kill on later levels, perhaps simply doubling the absorbtion when cast on herself?

I like that idea.

Harsh Sevenix, but true. Still, the rooks not too far from being balanced, but allowing him to land right on top of you out of nowhere is going to ruin ANY other DGs night real quick. Bringing a friend is simply overkill.

The teleporting mechanic can't be left as is, but if the wrong change is put in place it will make it worse. TBO dissects the proposed changes pretty damn well. The introduction of silence/immunity timers has a whole ton of annoying side effects. I still think the best solution is the 5 pointer, put in a portal animation. You the teleporter are ready, you know the enemy is ready for you if he doesn't split, it's fair. If this can't be done before release, let the issue stand and fix it post launch.

Quoting TheBigOne,

reply 3

even ignoring your other changes to massively increase the amount of gold in play this would be a bad change. Increasing the bounty for destroying a tower would make it even more effective to have all Demigods on one lane to quickly bring down towers. Even now grouping up is considered a bit too efficient from many players. If you want to have strategic gameplay and mapcontrol more important you need to increase the bounty on archers and minotaurs so that when all players are on 1 lane they lose more gold compared to those spread out and killing all creeps than currently.

I like that increase bounty ieda

Wyrmskin Gloves and Warpstone should be priced at same level. We are getting gloves at level 3, stacking them with other slow effects, and ganking hard until the other team can get warpstone much later. Both gloves and warp should be at 3,500 gold or higher..

Edit: Below might be a five-pointer, but I think it would be worth it. Actually if you made one major change before release this should be it, imo -

Currently control spells like stun and snare are coded to replace spells of the same type that are already in effect. So TB warps in and Frost Novas Regulus - Regulus is frozen - Rook walks up and Boulders Reg while he is frozen - Reg is now stunned - Hammer and Shatter come down GG.

Instead spells should be coded to disallow replacement. If Rook Boulders while Regulus is still frozen by FNova then the boulder gives damage but no stun effect. The spell is wasted, and Regulus has a chance to fight or run when Nova expires, as opposed to simply dying, every time.

Or take Wyrmskin Gloves. If your attack speed is high enough you can keep a target in perpetual slow, because the duration is long enough and chance to proc high enough that the slow will be replaced indefinitely. Through some Snare or Diseased Claws in there, maybe a Mine or QoT's insanely longrange slow, and you can keep the target from going anywhere until they die. In the new model only one slow at a time can be effective. It still makes a difference, but it doesn't cause the ragequits I'm seeing under the current model, I don't think.

Without replacement effects all those secondary spells would be wasted unless you trigger them after the first one expires so you introduce a whole new level of SKILL (Ta-Daaa!) because you have to time and coordinate your control abilities very carefully, as opposed to simply slapping them on top of each other like we do know. Your skill ceiling just got higher.

I've made a seperate post on this for any thoughts or comments here.

One of the problems with teleport change is we are rewarding the sloppy seconds of flag capture. This change makes it hard for the team or person who captured the flag first. They cannot teleport to it and defend what is their property they own that flag until taken away. How would you feel if someone was stealing from you but you got to wait two seconds before you can kick their butt. Not a very logical choice you need to be able to defend what is yours. I also think the line of sight of flags need to be opened up a little.

Or to eliminate ganking remove teleport to flags only structures That way you might actually defend your structures/towers more because they are so valuable.

Need to have the ability to pick "Random" from the hero selection in the lobby. This should assign a random hero at game start, not at the lobby. If it just gives a random one in the lobby, opponents still have the option to try to pick counter-heroes (where's the fun in that.)

Want to have a host option to force an all random game.

Want to have a host option to force a light vs. dark game (in terms of hero picks.)

Want to have a host option to change the teams of other players (to force someone to the light team or dark team.)

Want to have a host option to limit number of hero repeats (so you don't get 4 rooks or 4 regulus) - you could choose a number here, obviously need to allow for at least doubles since it could be more than 8 players but there are only 8 heroes.

Want to have a way to join a friend's game through seeing what game they are in (via chat or friends' list.)

Want to have some floating text that gives a visual on gold you get from kills - right now we just see damage (unless I'm missing something.)

Want to have a visual cue to War Rank progression, similar to how we have an experience bar.

The numbers at the center of your experience bar show War Rank progression as well as current rank

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 18

Want to have a visual cue to War Rank progression, similar to how we have an experience bar.

The numbers at the center of your experience bar show War Rank progression as well as current rank

I mean possibly a second bar that shows it visually progress towards the next war rank. If you know you're close to the war rank that gives Giants, maybe you'll stand and fight a little longer before going to spend your cash on items.

O I see Sorry for poor comprehension

Quoting Sevenix,

reply 10

Quoting Wagnard, reply 8

Why would they teleport to you when you are two taking a flag? If they got any brains they just go capture the other 2 flags which are left totally free for them. In any case you gain one flag but lose 2, so you are one down. Also perhaps you should try playing something except rook all the time Wagnard, try taking a flag in a 3v3 where the whole other team got Teleports and you use a hero which doesnt got a stun or 8000 hp., Yes they exist.

So please try to understand this simple logic and stop using "I own everything with my OP Rook so let them teleport here thanks, teleport is no problem lolz!" as an argument.

Also the statement "Its your problem if you cant handle getting instajumped by a 8000 hp Rook from the other side of map Which you had NO chance to see coming with a 0.5 sec cast stun and 2.1k single attack" totally nullifies any other points you may have made in that post of yours.

(and then they may just as well turn out to be 3 Rooks jumping you, so if you get instahammered to death by those 3 rooks, it is obviously your own fault for being so stupid as trying to capture a flag, just go back to you base and sit and wait at health crystal till they kill your citadel instead, GG)

I dont push my rook at 8k life. And Rook is far from be the OP guy atm. have you playted beast recently?

It can have more devastating attack them rook for sure. COmpine it with a ice TB and its mostly over.

Im just againt people crying that teleport are a problem because there is many solution to not getting warp-on and getting kill. SOme team in the tournament from Gamereaply cleary show us that. We had to go me and my brothers to different tactics.

And who is idot enough to start a game against 3 rook in the other team if he doesnt have anything similar... wtf

Thanks for proving my point. The only way to easily counter rook is with another rook, Its clearly the only thing that match up.

SOme team in the tournament from Gamereaply cleary show us that. We had to go me and my brothers to different tactics.

Right. My team tried again and again to get TBO and TLO into a telegank situation - they just wouldn't play that game, or they made sure they were prepared for the pop-up. Even in our game with you guys I saw you porting in and ran out before you got there a few times (though it didn't help much in the end ^^).

On a strategic level, though, offense has to concentrate their forces to mitigate incoming defenders and be prepped to turn the ambush around or wear flags down over several passes. All defense has to do is show up.

I don't think 2 second port debuff/buff is the best solution, but something has to give. Maybe it just comes down to not allowing ports to flags, only to buildings, like HR says.

Thanks for proving my point. The only way to easily counter rook is with another rook, Its clearly the only thing that match up.

Really? Look at Wagnard's game history and you'll see some losses to mixed non-Rook teams and even 1 v 1 against Regulus or TB. Against 3 Rooks I'd probably want 1 Rook, a TB, and maybe Sedna, UB, or Oak. I really think that a good mixed team will beat a good homogenous team every time, at this point, even when you take Rook's ginormous stats advantage into account.

Proposed Change for Mass Charm:

Any target affected by Mass Charm allows Erebus to leech 10% of his weapon damage (per attack) for the duration of Mass Charm. This "duration" is equal to the stun length on regular monsters, so when it is Level 1, the leech lasts for 3 seconds and at level Max, 8 seconds.

(Reason for change: Currently, Mass Charm is like a vanilla version of Frost Nova. The first two levels are both really week overall and need SOMETHING to give Erebus more identity)

Proposed Change for Nightwalker AI:

Reduce Awareness Range by 5 yards. (They currently pursue targets in the fog.)

Quoting Sevenix,

reply 22

And who is idot enough to start a game against 3 rook in the other team if he doesnt have anything similar... wtf
Thanks for proving my point. The only way to easily counter rook is with another rook, Its clearly the only thing that match up.

Well A UB can kill a rook verry easylly now.

rook is not as strong as before. UB totally crush him early game and if its 1v1 , thats mean rook can keep up and hes dead.

BTW I want to change my position for the teleport advertisement. I think it may be good after all and add some more dynamic and difficulties.

SO im in for an anouncement or a ping in minimap showing someone teleporting.

And sevenix i dont want to hate each other. I think your a good player and hope we can forget some misunderstanding and actually play some good games togerther.

@Tiberius. Some of those losse were test we made. but some are true but being on chemiotherapy those day is not a good thing when I play but hey I think the treatment is working for my cancer so probaly this summer I'll be here playing full power

Right now I'm wondering what to say Wagnard, on 1 side i want u to get better because thats the right thing to think but on the other I dodn't want to get pwned in demigod, u see my dilema, advice plz.

Im just joking, wagnard I totally dodn't want u to continue having hard times playing demigod.

Question Frogboy can u tell us what the other stats for each unit when u make health normal or high and same with damage.

quoting post

d.      Rook
                                                               i.      HP decreased by about 10% at all levels.
                                                             ii.      Boulder Roll 3 stun time reduced to 3 seconds.
e.      Unclean beast
                                                               i.      Base speed reduced to 6.0
                                                             ii.      Reduce melee damage by about 10%.

iii. Reduce HP or Armor by 10%.

OK I just don't get it. Every time I come to this post there is something new on the UB / Rook

UB: now there is a request to slow movement speed ( his claim to fame, which isn't that overpowering or unique ), Slow his damage, which is EASILY countered with armor. And now they want to reduce his armor and HP.

Alone this DG is not over powered. It was stated that in a certain build he is. Well it isn’t that he is OP, it is that any assassin in that build will be OP to a caster. The UB is strong early game, but becomes quite easily pushed aside by mid game ( 10 combined war ranks) The problem most people have with UB has nothing to do with his HP or armor, it is his attack rate, and then it is only when he is using certain items ( WSG, and Mage Slayer come to mind) There are other DG’s that run out and get these 2 items as fast as possible, but you don’t hear people yelling “NERF” on them YET.

If stacking of slows and stuns/interrupts are fixed as has been being asked since the early B2 days, then the perceived OP of UB will go away and people will start to take on armor to counter his Melee damage, rather than go pure HP to withstand all other DG’s damage since armor has no effect on their SKILLS.

Why not the same call for a reduction in Rook. At game start rook out HP's and armors the UB. It stays this way all the way through the game. Then you have damage. It takes about 8 lvl's ( Whenever god strength 2 becomes available) and the rook is now throwing melee damage that exceeds the UB. Then there is the single highest damage skill in game. One of the longest stuns in game, Towers that persist after death, and that allow his team mates to scroll right into your citadel. Oh, and the ability to self heal. You list here that you are thinking of dropping his base HP by 10% so he will only have 7200 HP at lvl 20 before equipment, more than many other demigod can make with pure HP equipment.

IV.                New Items
a.       Scroll of rebound. $250. Upon use any spells cast on that player or area around player within the following 2 seconds are rebounded upon the caster. Only works on magical spells (i.e. rook hammer slam and boulder roll not affected nor is Regulus’s sniper shot or other non-magical effects).
b.      Ring of rebound. Instant cast time. Upon use, any spell cast on that player or area around player within the subsequent 2 second are rebound upon the caster. Only works on magical spells (i.e. rook hammer slam and boulder roll not affected nor is Regulus’s sniper shot or other non-magical effects). Cool-down time of 24 seconds.

Since these items only work on “Magical spells” and the Rook Hammer Slam and Boulder Roll, along with Regulus’s Sniper Shot and other non-magical effects are not affected by the rebound effect, that they are now going to be counted as MELEE damage, and be able to be mitigated by ARMOR?

I gotta disagree with UB's speed decrease. The damage decrease I can live with, but the decrease in mobility is deadly. UB is geared to deal damage, not take it, so he really needs his speed.

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The Official Demigod Change Request Thread