Generals need to start with Tier1 idols

I think that's a really good idea!

No comment on the suggestion, but I tend to concentrate on the skill-based minions at the beginning. In a short game, it's not uncommon that I disregard idols altogether.

As for having to choose between equipping your demigod and buying citadel upgrades, yes, I think that is intentional. It adds more variety to the game when you can't always get everything.

Something certainly needs to be done. At current state generals have way too much over head compared to assassins.

Quoting databeaver,

reply 2

As for having to choose between equipping your demigod and buying citadel upgrades, yes, I think that is intentional. It adds more variety to the game when you can't always get everything.

Oh yes I understand that, what I mean is that Generals have to buy:

1. Items

2. Idols

3. Citadel Upgrades

Assassins only have to buy:

1. Items

2. Citadel Upgrades

This skews thing, as a team made up of assassins has far stronger forces than generals. This, to me, seems backwards.

Quoting databeaver,

reply 2

In a short game, it's not uncommon that I disregard idols altogether.

The point is, the games area always supposed to be short. The only time I have ever bought the extra minions is when I've played a game with the "filthy rich" setting on. I don't think that's how it should be.

I am thinking the same thing.

Actually, I am thinking that generals should get more gold.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 6

Actually, I am thinking that generals should get more gold.

I agree, I am just trying to figure out how to justify this in the story/plot of the game. I also believe their citadel upgrades should be 10% cheaper than assassins.

I really like this idea and my tired mind has came up with some more suggestions. What about abandoning that idol shop thing and making idols player level dependent only?

Let's say you are level 1 and start with all tier 1 idols. My idea is that on third level you would get an offer of upgrading one idol to higher tier. Then you would get the same offer every second level. This way you could max one idol on level 7 and all idols on level 19. Variability would be guaranteed, because you could upgrade whatever type of idol you would need in the moment.

Example:

I start with tier 1 minotaur, archer and monk, and i can jump right into action with this and start leveling. On level 3 i get one "idol upgrade point" and i spend it on tier 2 monks, because i need more healing power in the field. When i hit level 5, i spend a point on minotaurs and decide to rush them to tier 4, which i achieve on level 9. Finally i put the points from levels 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19 to equally upgrade archers and monks.

Pros:

- Generals would have more money for gear and citadel upgrades

- Generals would have firepower matching their level, so they could challenge assassins

- Generals wouldn't have to break a fight to go back to shop and buy new idols

- The stronger is general, the stronger are his minions

Cons:

- Firepower matching general's level may not be matching enemy's level, but in current system if enemy kicks your ass you won't have money for better minions

- more cons are a subject of discussion

Quoting Spell,

reply 8

I really like this idea and my tired mind has came up with some more suggestions. What about abandoning that idol shop thing and making idols player level dependent only?

Let's say you are level 1 and start with all tier 1 idols. My idea is that on third level you would get an offer of upgrading one idol to higher tier. Then you would get the same offer every second level. This way you could max one idol on level 7 and all idols on level 19. Variability would be guaranteed, because you could upgrade whatever type of idol you would need in the moment.

um... THIS. I think that's a really great idea!

Quoting Spell,

reply 8

I really like this idea and my tired mind has came up with some more suggestions. What about abandoning that idol shop thing and making idols player level dependent only?

Cons:

- Firepower matching general's level may not be matching enemy's level, but in current system if enemy kicks your ass you won't have money for better minions

- more cons are a subject of discussion

Another Con I would add to this list is that it eliminates one of the economic decisions of the game, that being where and how you apply the Gold resource. I'd still like to see some decision making regarding where you focus your general, whether you invest more heavily in equipment or summons. My main gripe right now is that with the current costs the way they are, Generals are too diluted especially early in the game, and even up until late game aren't able to contribute much towards Citadel upgrades without making far more sacrifices than an Assassin does.

So I wouldn't want to see the economic picture taken out completely, I'd just like to see it... a little more balanced.

well the thing is that generalls, economically, have more to decide to spend money on, and aren't as strong as an assassin is off the bat, so putting money in just items isn't going to keep them even. Another option, since generals have 3 main things to pay for,, and assassins have two... drop the cost of everything by one third? (equally, divide the cost of items for generals by 3 for each area of purchase and then multiply it by two since that's how many areas the assassin has.)

Quoting Spell,

reply 8

I really like this idea and my tired mind has came up with some more suggestions. What about abandoning that idol shop thing and making idols player level dependent only?

Let's say you are level 1 and start with all tier 1 idols. My idea is that on third level you would get an offer of upgrading one idol to higher tier. Then you would get the same offer every second level. This way you could max one idol on level 7 and all idols on level 19. Variability would be guaranteed, because you could upgrade whatever type of idol you would need in the moment.

This is a great idea.

Quoting Spell,

reply 8

I really like this idea and my tired mind has came up with some more suggestions. What about abandoning that idol shop thing and making idols player level dependent only?

Let's say you are level 1 and start with all tier 1 idols. My idea is that on third level you would get an offer of upgrading one idol to higher tier. Then you would get the same offer every second level. This way you could max one idol on level 7 and all idols on level 19. Variability would be guaranteed, because you could upgrade whatever type of idol you would need in the moment.

Example:

I start with tier 1 minotaur, archer and monk, and i can jump right into action with this and start leveling. On level 3 i get one "idol upgrade point" and i spend it on tier 2 monks, because i need more healing power in the field. When i hit level 5, i spend a point on minotaurs and decide to rush them to tier 4, which i achieve on level 9. Finally i put the points from levels 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19 to equally upgrade archers and monks.

Pros:

- Generals would have more money for gear and citadel upgrades

- Generals would have firepower matching their level, so they could challenge assassins

- Generals wouldn't have to break a fight to go back to shop and buy new idols

- The stronger is general, the stronger are his minions

Cons:

- Firepower matching general's level may not be matching enemy's level, but in current system if enemy kicks your ass you won't have money for better minions

- more cons are a subject of discussion

I think that's a pretty reasonable method, but you're cluttering the character table a bit. It might simply be easier to give them level 2 idols at level five, level 3 idols at level 10, and level four at level 20...or something like that.

In response to the OP, this is something I agree with, you could very nearly have them respawn with their minions. I know before I go out I will stand by the crystal and summon all my minions if I'm playing a general.

Quoting theubersmurf,

reply 13

I think that's a pretty reasonable method, but you're cluttering the character table a bit. It might simply be easier to give them level 2 idols at level five, level 3 idols at level 10, and level four at level 20...or something like that.

In response to the OP, this is something I agree with, you could very nearly have them respawn with their minions. I know before I go out I will stand by the crystal and summon all my minions if I'm playing a general.

It would be easier, yes, but it would take all variability from general's army. Basically you would play every game with the same minion progress without any options to affect it.

Quoting Spell,

reply 14

It would be easier, yes, but it would take all variability from general's army. Basically you would play every game with the same minion progress without any options to affect it.

indeed... the more variablility, the better!

One option could be altering the sell price for minions to be 100% of the cost. That way a general can invest in minions early without losing money in the long run. Combine this with giving generals a little extra starting cash and you should kick-start their minion action pretty well.

Another idea would be to just create a new resource for generals and take minions off the gold system. "Clout" based on level. Each minion takes up part of your clout and your max clout goes up as you level. Thus minions cost you nothing, but you can only carry so many points worth of minions. This system should give the player the option to pick between maxing one type of minion early or mixing it up.

Why not drop the gold price on those items all together and make them aviable through certain levels of your morale skill?

Edit: i should read a thread befor posting :/

there is already a similiar suggestion above

What do you all think of something like this?

General starts with a base (Tier1) idol of each kind. Rather than buying replacements for idols, he instead buys upgrades in a sequential order. So an upgrade to Minotaurs would be be something like T2: 600 / T3: 800 / T:4 1000 (numbers completely arbitrary, I'm just pulling them out of the air). That way, previous upgrades aren't wasted like buying lower-level idols are since they aren't being replaced per se, you're just upgrading them.

Costs of course should be balanced and, IMO, reduced from what they are now. The reason I suggest this idea are the following:

1. It leaves a strategic economic choice of how to utilize your gold. You also can decide to ramp up Minotaurs quickly, shoot for Priests instead, or balance out the 3, in whatever order you like.

2. It allows generals to field minions right at the start which sets them apart from Assassins gameplay wise and gives them a little boost at the beginning.

3. It doesn't penalize you for spending gold on Tier2 or Tier3 idols, since you need to follow the upgrade path to the top while still allowing you to gold dump and focus on getting to a T4 idol ASAP.

4. Adds greater variability in the strenght of minions in the game. I oftentimes skip minions completely until I get the T4 ones because I don't want to waste the gold. With this I'll feel more comfortable dropping 800 gold to get a idol upgrade, even if I don't have the full amount for T4 yet because it's contributing towards the T4 idol rather than working against it.

The ideas of linking idol lvls to the Demigod level, either way, are quite reasonable and could work. But on the other end they go against the idea from GPG of adding diferent idols with diferent minions to the game later on.

I would post the link to where i read this but i believe it was on IRC.

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Generals need to start with Tier1 idols