@Frogboy - This is a job for YOU! » Forum Post by Spartan

It's a bird...

It's a plane...

It's a frog... A FROG ??!!

You're right. What's more, this will help Frogboy's Presidential bid for 2012.

No kidding- if anyone should be able to speak on the behalf of consumers as a company, it's Stardock.

I'm glad the FTC is taking a look at this. I don't favor government intervention, but with a money-driven society, a lot of choices are made for profit rather than the benefit of society/consumers. The big challenge here will be striking that fine balance between companies being able to enforce copyrights and consumers not being saddled with DRM that is far too restrictive, not advertised as existing when purchased, and causes the consumer to repurchase a product or be unable to use it.

Good find, Spartan! (+1)

and causes the consumer to repurchase a product or be unable to use it.

Or worse yet, breaks the customer's computer (the SecuRom shell extension was causing windows explorer to crash every time I right-clicked the wrong file... which also had the effect of making it impossible for me to play)

Frog Punch DRM.

Had to say it since Ippo came back today.

I must say this is great news. Hopefully Securom and Starforce will be banned from the US also hopefully EA will be shut down.

Honestly, I can't see how the FTC can do much about this without either a Supreme Court ruling or federal legislation banning the licensing of software. As long as software companies (including Stardock, however differently they address DRM) can legally license software, they are free to put whatever limitations they feel like on that license. Even Stardock would be violating consumer rights right now if licenses didn't sidestep the first sale doctrine. Anything preventing you from selling used software (which Stardock's update policy technically does) violates first sale. At present, tacking a EULA on the software neatly avoids this issue.

Until buying software is legally the sale of a good, consumers are going to be victimized. The FTC might be able to up the threshhold of consumer notice required to make a license agreement (must sign before purchase, mandate return policy for not agreeing after purchase, whatever), but they can't end the practices that are currently pissing so many people off.

This should be fun!

OKAY guys, the governement is involved. Expect to solve the problem in 2050!

Quoting WIllythemailboy,

reply 7

Honestly, I can't see how the FTC can do much about this without either a Supreme Court ruling or federal legislation banning the licensing of software. As long as software companies (including Stardock, however differently they address DRM) can legally license software, they are free to put whatever limitations they feel like on that license. Even Stardock would be violating consumer rights right now if licenses didn't sidestep the first sale doctrine. Anything preventing you from selling used software (which Stardock's update policy technically does) violates first sale. At present, tacking a EULA on the software neatly avoids this issue.

Until buying software is legally the sale of a good, consumers are going to be victimized. The FTC might be able to up the threshhold of consumer notice required to make a license agreement (must sign before purchase, mandate return policy for not agreeing after purchase, whatever), but they can't end the practices that are currently pissing so many people off.

The idea of a developer securing their product is fine with everyone, other than hippy pirates. It does become a problem, however, when certain "copy protection" mechanisms can damage your operating system or your hardware itself (Hello, StarForce!). At that point, a line needs to be drawn.

If a studio wants to copy protect the A-Team Collection that's fine. It's not so fine if it sends Mr. T over to punch me in the face to make sure I don't try to burn a copy.

Goodgimp, damn! I'd buy that collection and then TRY to burn a copy just to get Mr T over to my house!

OKAY guys, the governement is involved. Expect to solve the problem in 2050!

thats sooner than never. I might be alive to see that day.

Quoting The_Regicide,

reply 11

Goodgimp, damn! I'd buy that collection and then TRY to burn a copy just to get Mr T over to my house!

Hahaha, for that

I believe in the power of consumers.

Obnoxious copy protection and DRM will die not because of the government but because gamers will simply purchase alternatives that don't treat them like criminals.

The NPD figures for 2008 came out recently and Sins of a Solar Empire was in the top 10 best sellers at *retail* which doesn't even consider the fact of the millions of dollars sold of it via digital distribution.

People vote with their wallets and the tide is turning. Even iTunes is rapidly moving away from restrictive DRM.

@Frogboy - So does that mean that you and the presidents of your affiliate (GPG, ICG) development houses are going to submit panel member petitions? Being a publisher and developer with one of the best, if not the best, customer support reputations in the industry, as well as all the accolades SD has received in the past month I would think you at least would be a guaranteed selection.

OKAY guys, the governement is involved. Expect to solve the problem in 2050!

And cost about $1,000,000,000,000

My main concern is that Sony, EA and Ubi will fill the place with paid meat puppets. I can see it now, when they ask for audience members to speak to the panel the people will say shit like "DRM is the greatest things mom and apple pie!" or "DRM is the frontline against this nation thieving pirates and all the evil people in the rest of world" -etc... After all look what ConCast, TW and AT&T did at the hearing they participated in the last few years. Can we expect less from the same type of companies in the gaming industry? I think not...

January 6, 2009 18:53:55

My main concern is that Sony, EA and Ubi will fill the place with paid meat puppets. I can see it now, when they ask for audience members to speak to the panel the people will say shit like "DRM is the greatest things mom and apple pie!" or "DRM is the frontline against this nation thieving pirates and all the evil people in the rest of world" -etc... After all look what ConCast, TW and AT&T did at the hearing they participated in the last few years. Can we expect less from the same type of companies in the gaming industry? I think not...

What if DRM ends up subsidized by the government? That's my worry.

I just don't want to be FORCED to accept DRM to legally buy games. If that happens, I would leave the market.

FTC + DRM + Industry 'Experts' from the big publishing houses - Frogboy = Bad

FTC + DRM + Industry 'Experts' from the big publishing houses + Frogboy = Better but FTC and DRM in the same sentence makes me cry.

Sammual

All hail the frog!

Quoting Spartan,

reply 17

My main concern is that Sony, EA and Ubi will fill the place with paid meat puppets. I can see it now, when they ask for audience members to speak to the panel the people will say shit like "DRM is the greatest things mom and apple pie!" or "DRM is the frontline against this nation thieving pirates and all the evil people in the rest of world" -etc... After all look what ConCast, TW and AT&T did at the hearing they participated in the last few years. Can we expect less from the same type of companies in the gaming industry? I think not...

That's what i'm worried about the most. Frogboy, please help the gaming community don't just sit there, help convince the goverment to ban DRM for good.

I'd rather frogboy create this great games and not waste his time. Who cares about DRM when all the good games come from Stardock?

Quoting Emperor_Seth,

reply 20

That's what i'm worried about the most. Frogboy, please help the gaming community don't just sit there, help convince the goverment to ban DRM for good.

A government at rest will tend to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside source of funding. We're already winning in the fight against DRM, so I'd rather Frogboy appeal to the FTC's inertia than try to push against the tide of lobbyists and campaign donations.

Save the pushing for copyright reform, which is the real root of our problems.

Quoting Tototot,

reply 21

I'd rather frogboy create this great games and not waste his time. Who cares about DRM when all the good games come from Stardock?

Save the pushing for copyright reform

Make it a clear reform, a water-tight, clearly understood reform.

Quoting Tototot,

reply 21

I'd rather frogboy create this great games and not waste his time. Who cares about DRM when all the good games come from Stardock?

What Luckman said, if Brad goes to that case than it'll be the final blow for our war against DRM.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

@Frogboy - This is a job for YOU!

The government is finally getting of its ass a trying to do something for gamers!