The "Generals" Discussion 2.0
Since Beta 1, we've been dealing with Assassins and we know them and love them for what they are. The introduction of Beta 2 brought a new side of the game into the light, Generals, and though we know they are far from finished this thread has been erected as a staple to help them grow into becoming something fun and unique to play. Join our discussion, express your ideas, and remember one fact when considering feedback:
Important Notes
* Consider how Generals can become more unique, within the bounds of what is already existing in the game of course.
* This is not the first thread of its kind, the original thread is found here: Demigod Journals: Generals
* Please provide clear feedback, following these guidelines:
- Title your ideas.
- List them in short, concise bullet points.
- Give details, in order, well below the list of bullet points.
- DO NOT quote other people's ideas in full length and type: "I agree"
- DO NOT quote other people line by line to "break down" their arguements.
Current List of Generals
Some Materials for this list originated from this thread: General Generals
For more details on each General, pleaese visit link provided above.
Oak
Lord Erebus
Sedna
Queen of Thorns
Primary Concerns from Community
- Generals are, at present, nothing more than Assassins with the option of additional units.
- Plays exactly like an Assassin.
- Can do everything an Assassin can, but thensome.
- Doesn't even remotely feel like an RTS element.
There is a lot of feedback from the community again Generals, this is why I'd like to make this thread more of the focus of that dicussion. In order to start things off on the right direction, I'll provide my feedback here as an example of the guidelines I've listed above. Thank you for your cooperation in this effort to expand upon the game in this open form of communication between community and development.
~ Orlean Knight
Suggestion: Generals and Assassins play 100% Differently
Right now, my largest concern with Generals, even though they are a new element that is far from complete, is that they share too many things in common with an Assassin. I feel that they should play very differently, and get rewarded in different ways. Assassins should play very differently from Generals, and in essense be almost two different games. Complicated indeed, but I think I have some ideas that may get things moving into that "gereral" direction.
Overview:
Things I feel that are WRONG with Generals
- Generals hold their own against Assassins.
- Generals have to enter the battle and lead their minions.
- Generals can not develop or adjust their minions.
- Minions are not a General's real strength.
- Generals can wear equipment.
- Generals have combat abilities to battle against Assassins.
- Generals have no unique form of income.
Things I feel Generals MAY resolve these issues
- Generals should be no stronger an Giants.
- Generals can command and control their presence throughout the field, without leaving the base.
- Generals can upgrade and adjust their minions attributes like the Citadel.
- Minion's are the General's presense on the field.
- Instead of Equipment, the Shop has sections for Generals to develope thier Minions.
- Generals should have abilities which focus on healing and buffing grunts and minions and maybe area attacks.
- Generals can earn gold to Upgrade Citadel, but a General's power pool could be generated from the death of mindless grunts.
Breakdown:
When I think of a General, I think of a miliatry tactition who doesn't stick their neck out in the face of combat. Instead, they focus on amasing strength in numbers of having youthful muscle run out and do all the fighting for them. A general shouldn't leave the base, and if they do it should be for two reasons:
- The enemy is breaking into the base, and more defense is needed on the front lines.
- Your team is pushing hard on the base and they need an outpost to keep the push going.
A General should symbolize the measure of your war effort, and can have a lot of power when it comes to the direction and motivation of units on the field. Like in most RTS games, the General is the player themselves, the mouse pointer and the screen. The physical form of the General should only be a means in which to halt a player's command of an army for a duration of time. Making them a target which sits safely inside of the base behind defenses.
Unlike the Assassin, the General should use minions alone to try and take down enemy Demigods. Their Minions alone are their strength, and their only real physical fighting power. They can develop minions in the base using the shop as seen below:
Image Explaination:
- This modified General Shop shows several unit types on the left that a General can summon via the Star Icon.
- Selecting a unit shows upgrades for that unit type alone. Allowing you to increase armor and damage for choice units based on your play style.
- The skull is an additional upgrade which adds effects to units on death. Making Assassins think twice before killing your minions.
- The blue icon at the top is an idea, it represents Souls that Generals can collect and invest into upgrades.
Souls
This is an idea I have, I'd like to know what others think. But I feel there needs to be a proxy for the General on the field, and I feel that could be in the form of a Soul Reaper. This unit is the only thing I can think of that would actually be something 'new' that the artists would have to generate, so therefore it makes the suggestion questionable. But even so, I'll illustrate the idea as best as I can so help others judge whether or not something like this is a good idea or not.
This proxy can be a critical unit which, like the Oak's ward, can draw in souls from units that die near it. These souls can then be utilized by the Generals back the base to invest into various unit upgrades. These Soul Reapers become a prime target for shutting out the production of a General's units, and also makes them very precious for the General to keep alive. I would imagine they wouldn't be able to defend themselves, but instead have a good sum of HP to absorb some damage, and they protentially even be upgraded. This idea is variable, I just felt it'd be interesting and different.
Experience Points and Abilities
Well if a General is not in combat, how would they accquire experience to develop their abilities? This question could be answered with the soul idea listed above, but just incase no one takes interest into that idea - there would need to be a sound alternative. I feel the minions under a General's control could be able to amass experience points just like other Assassins. When they kill something or capture something, that experience is transferred into the General who can gain levels and put points into developing abilities that heal and buff their minions and grunts. Also, potentially Area Damage skills can be used as well to frighten off Assassins who try to hinder your army's movements.
Protection spells seems like very good alternative to attacks, such as putting up a shield against the Torch Bearer's Rain of Ice for instance. A high level Rain of Ice can sunder a whole army, but if a shield is thrown up to cushion the blow, the General's army can still push on and lead the charge. These abilities can be cast anywhere within a minion's range and proximity as the General remains in the base.
Fortifications and Outposts
Another idea that would make Generals interesting would be to turn them into physcial outposts, think The Queen of Thorns taking root and opening her bud. She is underguard by her Honor-Guard while in this mode, these units can be deployed by her and are seperate from her minions that she produced back at the base. This mode leaves the General very vulnerable, but can become a big help to a team on the move. Because a General can then spawn units from their location to quickly aid in the battle, furthemore magical orbs can appear which can be remote links to the Shop and the Citadel for friendly Demigods to use so they don't have to run all the way back the base and keep the forward push strong.
I would also image a General in this state can emit an aura the increases the defense of Towers of Light, making them a suitable defensive line against Grunts.
Death of a General
A General's demise should not spell the end of his/her units. Instead, they will no longer have a leader to command them. Minions in this state can go "rogue", attacking anything and everything in thier proximity, even friendly Demigods. This should make Generals think twice about leaving the base and making themselves vulnerable to attack. Once a General comes back to life, they'll regain control over whatever survivers are left of their once proud army.
Unit Flexibility
Aside from just be able to purchase units and upgrade them, Generals should be able to choose from a wide range of different types of units, including Angels and Giants, which will allow them to make an army more tuned to their play style. If they want slow, lumbering tanks on the field - allow them to summon Giants early on, but of course restrick their numbers. I'd like to see many different units, allowing for Generals to make an army they really can call their own, and plays the way they want to.
And that to me, is what I feel a Genral should be about. Any questions? ^^
