I don't think mist needs to be nerfed. Erebus needs it as it is today or he will be cannon fodder for example UB. Acctually I think you should refrain from nerfing as much as possible. And instead focus on buffing the weaker Demigods

As a tool to avoid combat completely I think it should be changed. Another example is the most recent mist build in the strategy guide section right now, where EB spends more time out of combat invulnerable than in combat. The idea of running into someone's base with the intention to mist for literally 5-8 minutes straight is, to me at least, silly. Hilarious, but still pretty silly.

The only nerf I would want to see is a 10-15 second cap or a slightly upwards scaling mana cost with higher ranks, and that still wouldn't affect the endless locking strategy (I think that's more of a cataract problem than an EB problem, which isn't to say it won't work on prison, etc.).

Nerfing shield is nerfing a common, robust strategy that's a part of pretty much every game and is critical to oak's gameplay. I agree that the invulnerable locks are silly and I'd like to see them removed, but preventing new spits, snares, and interrupts mid-field so that a fragile player can actually escape is not something I want to see go.

However, nerfing the more extreme 30 seconds to 5 minute mist sessions is nerfing a niche and uncommon spec which seeks to avoid combat completely. At least shield is about getting into a fight, duking it out, and then escaping what would otherwise be your death. Mist is the opposite, it's sitting on a portal indefinitely because it's literally impossible to ever send you home. If they come and fight, you mist. If they stay, they generate zero exp while you farm the portal. Your mist kills the weaker waves an dthen the priests/monks/giants stand still and fight your nightwalkers and eventually fall to the mist as well. There's no solution there for a defender.

For an oak to chain lock a portal he's either gotta be able to kill you outright or make a complete rotation from crystal to portal flag every 45 seconds. He can teleport one way, but he's gotta walk the other. In extreme situations like when he gets the journeyman's treads it can be pretty much impossible to stop him, as he'll warp in and then run out with shield active, but before that point there is a combat solution to the situation.

I could go on and on about this, because for regulus to have enough helms to perma-mist he's gotta spend so much gold that Oak will probably have his boots, but then you guys want to nerf low rank shield but keep high rank shield intact, so your nerfs wouldn't impact the boots strategy anyway... as you can see it's easy to go in circles talking about it.

So I'll stop my rambling and just say that there are a few extreme, abusive uses of mist that I think should be removed. A 10-15 second cap on it would fix them. Also it's worth pointing out that at the heart of both of these issues is the fact that there's just no counter to locks and that locking portals ends games so easily.Dancing around the issue with ranom nerfs is probably the worst solution in the end, and it should be addressed directly.

Personally I don't think you should be able to lock out an enemy portal for 45 seconds, it's just too much. Neutral flags are fine in my book, as is locking your own portals, but personally I would enjoy this game more if you fight from the start of a game to the end, instead of avoiding combat completely 20 minutes in and doing portal locking runs... I think the cap lock nerf did very little to affect late game portal locking because by that point everyone has silence, mass charm, shield, deep freeze, boulder roll, etc. to protect the full cast anyway. However, I do realize that's just my preference and it's not going to change.

The only things they have in common are that they cost mana and you can't be damaged during them, but that's like saying spit and fireball are the same because they cost mana and deal damage.

You spam one and you save the other until the most critical moment. My complaint about Mist is different than your complaint about shield because I have a very specific issue with it, which is misting indefinitely on a portal and chaining stun cooldowns for protected locks. Mist has many legit uses, and I don't think capping it at 10-15 seconds would negate them.

Your primary but unstanted issue with shield is that it lets people teleport safely, but your nerf has a sweeping effect, the biggest collateral damage is that it can't protect against spit anymore, but there's other utilities that would be lost as well.

You're right, I'm not going to agree with you on shield, though I'm not all that opinionated about mist. I don't think it gets extremely abusive until absurd gold levels anyway, I could take or leave it, the only reason why I suggested it is that YOU made a mod nerfing EB and I think that Bite is a critical skill for him and that if you're going to nerf him you should start elsewhere.

Regardless I think it's a cap lock problem, not an Oak or Mass Charm or Deep Freeze or Silence problem.

*edit* Lemm go on to say that it's not even until cats that portal locking is really all that out of hand, at which point you would have rank IV shield anyway and I really think all the AoE cap lock protection methods are problematic. I don't want to see them all nerfed, so why not just finally fix locks?

chainlocking with oak?? well thats not possible against a good team. either he has to run in and can be killed or he has to run out. its not like with erebus who just stays there forever.

Of course this issue goes much deeper but how are u you going to change it if you do dont do anything? you gotta start somewhere and i started with oak. But thats not the only reason why i started with oak. Theers just things about lvl 3 shield that make it way too effective for how early you can acquire it in a game.

Lemme just ask this, Level 3 shield makes level 4 shield completely redundant as it is now, what should i do to change this? If its not taking out stun immunity (which you all know im for), then what?

i think if i reduce the duration it should go down to 4 secs. Then there'd definately be reason to get lvl4 shield. As it stands lvl 3 with stun immunity is just way too powerful so i think 4 secs is appropriate for such a great defensive skill.

You're joking right? His speed is fine, his health is fine, but mist should have a limit. And turn him into an assassin? I don't even know where to begin with that.....

You can win a game without getting a single kill.

Also, the inverse is true: you can lose a game getting a lot of kills.

Also, the converse is true: if you mist all game you won't die.

But you probably will lose on warscore.

esuzu... so true and exactly my point why mist should stay as it is. It serves no "effective" purpose other than to negate debuffs, or used as an escape tactic, much like oaks shield followed by teleport. both have their pros and cons, it then just depends on how you use it.

Still not very happy about removing the armor debuff from Bite though.

I don't think bite is the slightest overpowered in itself. And the combination with the armor debuff and his minions is extremely important. Oak got that kind of thing aswell with Penitence and so does Queen with spikes. They all have some kind of debuff to armor or something similar.