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“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – B. Franklin

By on February 19, 2016 6:20:52 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
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Tim Cook, is saying “No!”, in thunder to the DoJ.

But…”What if there’s info in there that would help catch terrorists?” That “What if” that makes us decide for ourselves the answer to Ben Franklin’s statement. Tim Cook said “No.” to the Justice Department’s Order to assist the FBI extract data from the San Bernadino terrorist’s phone. Wanna know something? He was right to do so.

Why? Well, for one thing, does it occur to anyone that the FBI has the terrorist’s fingerprint? So, why can’t they unlock the phone? Does it occur to anyone the government has super Cray computers which could have unlocked that phone? Why do they want the backdoor which they’ve wanted for a year at least? Why are they saying this is a “once only” when it clearly is not?

The FBI says it would be a “one time”, and that your device’s security wouldn’t be compromised. Security experts disagree: THEY say it will. Guess who I believe? Why should anyone believe that “one time” nonsense? The NSA collected your data illegally for years. Now? Congress has made it legal. Trust them to take your rights without a fight.

From the moment the FBI was created, J. Edgar Hoover collected dirt on everyone and used it to blackmail Presidents and Congresses and Courts. You think anything has changed? They’ve only gotten better at it, and justifying it because they know they’re dealing with sheep (sorry, Jim). The government has violated your rights with impunity, and poo-poo it, and they’ve done it for years…and will continue to do so.

So, if they can unlock the phone (does anyone really believe they can’t?), why ask a Court for an order? Because they want it “legally” (who doesn’t love a farce?), and more than ANYTHING, they want a PRECEDENT. That is what they MUST NOT obtain. The Bill of Rights stands as an integrated whole. The First, Second and Fifth Amendments most definitely depend upon the Fourth Amendment, and “What if” is Not sufficient reason to violate anyone’s privacy, just as “We want to know” isn’t, either.

The government knows it cannot justify the iPhone search with proof there actually is data there which is critical to the security of America. They are acting out of “What if?”. Well, that’s called a “fishing expedition”. It is inadequate reason for a Federal Judge to grant a search warrant. The Court Order was a serious breach of every citizen’s right to privacy and unreasonable search and seizure. Judges guard the Fourth Amendment jealously. They’d better, because the FBI would be looking at their phones with any imaginary “what if” they could dream up. Not just the FBI: Every local Police Dep’t. could “justify” such a search in a similar manner. Where is the boundary?

“We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.” – B. Franklin. Well, The EFF and ACLU, Google, Twitter and Facebook are standing with Apple on this. Shaping up to be an epic fight. I hope “We the People” win. “Backdoors” weaken security. They do not strengthen it. If a backdoor exists, ANYONE can exploit it, and will. The CIA has been trying to break into iPhones for years without success. You can bet the FSB and others have, as well.

So, Tim Cook is vowing to fight the DoJ’s Magistrate’s Order all the way to the Supreme Court. So would I: At best? There’ll be a tie, and no way to resolve it. Fitting in a karmic way.

Source:

http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/fbi-apple-iphone-explainer/

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March 7, 2016 12:31:33 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,

Plus, nobody and nothing in this world is 100% good or 100% evil.

Hmmm...a certain *cuniculus* comes to mind...  ...as 'good', of course. 

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March 7, 2016 12:45:39 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
Hmmm...a certain *cuniculus* comes to mind...  ...as 'good', of course. 

AHAHAH! Nah, we're all sinners. Which is as it should be because that is the condition of being human, i.e.; creatures capable of duality (i.e.; being both good and evil at the same time, although in different degrees) instead of absolutes. It is this capability that allows us to freely decide which side we want to be at, or rather, which side we want/allow to be stronger in us.

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March 7, 2016 1:07:24 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,

being both good and evil at the same time

At different times...unless you feel a specific action (or inaction) can be good and evil simultaneously...

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March 7, 2016 1:34:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Being both good and evil at the same time sounds like theoretical physics.

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March 7, 2016 1:45:11 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
At different times...unless you feel a specific action (or inaction) can be good and evil simultaneously...

Ouch. This one will take things waaaaay off-topic, but...

I think that, first, it depends on the intention.

Second, yes, there are actions (perhaps all actions?) that have both a good and an evil component, especially in an non-perfect world such as this where every resource is limited (so you cannot eat your cake and keep it too).

For instance, based on that famous trolley ethical problem that doesn't really have a 'right' answer: a train is coming full speed to a rail intersection. There are five people working in one of the tracks, and a child playing on the other. You can save one or the other by pulling a lever, but not both at the same time. What do you do? Do nothing and let fate take its course? Save five people and 'kill' one child? 'Kill' five people that have families and children of their own to save one child?

In the end, you have to try to chose the greater good. Or what you feel is the greater good. There is no 'right' answer, only a 'better' answer at most, and that in itself is limited by how little we really know about the 'full picture'.

But we are not required to do the impossible, just the best we can given our abilities. In the problem above, I personally think inaction is the absolute WORST choice.

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March 7, 2016 1:47:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Clearly, the ethical answer is to send it towards the five people working.  If they're not smart enough to get out of the way, your only hope is that they didn't reproduce before nature took it's natural course.

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March 7, 2016 1:49:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,


Quoting DrJBHL,





Don't generalize my position.

In this matter (the OP), Apple's position is entirely correct.




 

 

I wasn't generalizing your position. I was commenting on a post (by someone else), who framed this issue in terms of good and evil,  - making a blanket claim that gov't agencies are evil, and Apple by default good. Which is just not the case.


actually, if you read my entire post, you will discover my focus was on how we use language to >deliberately mislead others.<  The good vs evil was merely an illustration that using words to deceive others has been a 'time honored' practice - and often policy for some factions.  Nothing is totally good, or bad - <sarcasm> except, of course, people misunderstanding my posts </sarcasm>  

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March 7, 2016 1:53:39 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting psychoak,

Clearly, the ethical answer is to send it towards the five people working.  If they're not smart enough to get out of the way, your only hope is that they didn't reproduce before nature took it's natural course.

Lol. Why am I not surprised your answer would be something like that?

Anyway, in the real problem the five people will not be able, for whatever reason, to hear the train coming on time. The choice is yours and yours alone, so take it from there. Again, there is no clear 'right' answer to this problem because something good and something bad will come out of whatever choice you make.

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March 7, 2016 2:08:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm still seeing a pretty black and white answer there, an adult is responsible for their own irresponsible actions, and working on an active rail without the proper precautions is pretty brain dead.  The kid still has hope to grow one and stop playing on the tracks at some point.

 

Five people running from a werewolf and you can push a guy off a ledge to distract it and save them is a much better scenario.

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March 7, 2016 2:41:18 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums
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March 7, 2016 2:43:10 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,

that famous trolley ethical problem that doesn't really have a 'right' answer

Ah...the old "Kobayashi Maru" trolley test, eh?

I saw what you did there.

The right answer lies in the right coding, as Capt. Kirk proved...you of all people should know that.

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March 7, 2016 2:49:23 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,


actually, if you read my entire post, you will discover my focus was on how we use language to >deliberately mislead others.<  The good vs evil was merely an illustration that using words to deceive others has been a 'time honored' practice - and often policy for some factions.  Nothing is totally good, or bad - <sarcasm> except, of course, people misunderstanding my posts </sarcasm>  
 
A misunderstanding on the Internet? It can't happen.
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March 7, 2016 4:05:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

My personal favorite was the guy that decided to commit suicide and make certain it happened.  He tied a rope around his neck, drank some poison, and jumped off a cliff while shooting himself in the head.  He missed, shot the rope, splashed down in icy water, puked up the poison, and was rescued by a fisherman before he drowned, only to die of hypothermia on the way back.  The dude that shot a deer standing on a ledge above him wasn't bad either.

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March 11, 2016 8:04:21 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums
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March 11, 2016 9:31:15 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

What President Obama sidesteps by posing on "the side of the angels" is his NSA's (and every other alphabet soup agency's) endless overstepping their bounds and prying into legally protected areas.

Perhaps if his shoes weren't covered in mud, people might be more willing to allow him to cross over the threshold and onto their rugs.

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March 28, 2016 9:36:05 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/technology/apple-iphone-fbi-justice-department-case.html?_r=0

Well it looks like they don't need Apple's help after all.

Assuming this is true, Apple lost the opportunity to "control the narrative" in terms of unlocking the phone.

If they had helped, they could have kept the method "in house" and under their control. And it brings into question just how secure the phone really is.

"Yet law enforcement’s ability to now unlock an iPhone through an alternative method raises new uncertainties, including questions about the strength of security in Apple devices. The development also creates potential for new conflicts between the government and Apple about the method used to open the device and whether that technique will be disclosed. Lawyers for Apple have previously said the company would want to know the procedure used to crack open the smartphone, yet the government might classify the method."

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March 29, 2016 10:47:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Of course they'll classify it. They won't want to lose that edge. They know Apple can override it and probably will to protect their phones and the customer base, providing they get access to the method used. Catch-22?

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March 29, 2016 11:28:22 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Looks like the FBI turned to an Israeli firm to do it for them (and here I thought the NSA had code wizards)...and they apparently succeeded in unlocking/unblocking the phone and retrieving the data.

A bit (or byte? Maybe bite?) of humor:

http://www.themideastbeast.com/apple-dispute-resolved-as-san-bernardino-terrorists-password-turns-out-to-be-1-2-3-4/

 

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March 29, 2016 7:29:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,


Quoting ElanaAhova,





actually, if you read my entire post, you will discover my focus was on how we use language to >deliberately mislead others.<  The good vs evil was merely an illustration that using words to deceive others has been a 'time honored' practice - and often policy for some factions.  Nothing is totally good, or bad - <sarcasm> except, of course, people misunderstanding my posts </sarcasm>  

 

A misunderstanding on the Internet? It can't happen.


Never happens, never.  LOL  

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March 29, 2016 8:54:08 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Looks like the FBI turned to an Israeli firm to do it for them (and here I thought the NSA had code wizards)...and they apparently succeeded in unlocking/unblocking the phone and retrieving the data.

A bit (or byte? Maybe bite?) of humor:

http://www.themideastbeast.com/apple-dispute-resolved-as-san-bernardino-terrorists-password-turns-out-to-be-1-2-3-4/

 

 

Yep, we all know we should have different passwords for different things, more numbers etc in our passwords but, ah heck, can't be bothered thinking of a new code/password: 1-2-3-4. Done.

 

A man was was unable to log into his online banking account and he pulled up the online chat support.

"I put in my password and I cannot access my account"

"Sorry that password has expired- you must register a new one."

"Did anyone discover that password and hack my computer?"

"No, but your password has expired- you must get a new one."

"Why then do I need a new one as that one seems to be working pretty well?"

"Well, you must get a new one as they automatically expire every 90 days."

"Can I use the old one and just re-register it?"

"No, you must get a new one."

"I don't want a new one as that is one more thing for me to remember."

"Sorry, you must get a new one."

"OK, roses."

"Sorry you must use more letters."

"OK, pretty roses"

"No good, you must use at least one numerical character."

"OK, 1 pretty rose"

"Sorry, you cannot use blank spaces."

"OK, 1prettyrose"

"Sorry, you must use additional characters."

"OK, 1fuckingprettyrose"

"Sorry, you must use at least one capital letter."

"OK,1FUCKINGprettyrose"

"Sorry, you cannot use more than one capital letter in a row."

"OK, 1Fuckingprettyrose"

"Sorry, you cannot use that password as you must use additional letters."

"OK, 1Fuckingprettyroseshovedupyourassifyoudon'tgivemeaccessrightfuckingnow"

"Sorry, you cannot use that password as it is already being used"

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March 29, 2016 10:24:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

LOL ....

Pretty much sums up the entire password bullshit...

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March 29, 2016 10:26:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

....though on second thoughts there would have been the response...

"Sorry, alpha-numeric only, no apostrophe or other characters."

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March 29, 2016 10:35:50 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting mrblondini,

"Sorry, you cannot use that password as you must use additional letters."

"OK, 1Fuckingprettyroseshovedupyourassifyoudon'tgivemeaccessrightfuckingnow"

"Sorry, you cannot use that password as it is already being used"

Absolutely love it... possibly the best 'support' joke I've heard/read in a long, long while.

Oh, and the cleaning bill for the spray of tea that covered my screen, keyboard and speakers... um, that's in the mail... Oz dollars preferable.

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March 29, 2016 11:35:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sadly, password jokes aren't really necessary, passwords are already a joke to begin with...

 

1234 is pushing it, but for anything being hacked over the internet, you can use a six letter word, all lower case, and you're pretty much uncrackable.  These worthless brute force cracking time generators all over the internet that tell you such things will be cracked in seconds are all assuming a locally run program that magically has no delay while it waits to see if the password was correct.  If the hackers already have local access to the system, your password isn't the problem, and odds are even with local access, as long as your password isn't password, you'll be fine.

 

In the real world, where people have pings, the few nanoseconds a computer needs for each try are then added to the few hundred milliseconds of ping you typically have on whatever shitty web portal they're trying to log into, with however long it takes for the over utilized login server to get back to you.  My easy 10 letter all lowercase password gets rated anywhere from an hour to half a day, when in reality it's hundreds of years in such an environment, and if someone takes the time to crack that, I think they deserve to get into a forum or spam email account.  My current contracting work on the other hand requires 14 digit passwords that change every 90 days and require capitalization and numbers, to access systems already behind a several second interval randomized access code, both with a three try lockout.

 

In such an environment, password and 1234 are basically the only passwords you shouldn't use.

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March 30, 2016 12:10:08 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting psychoak,

In such an environment, password and 1234 are basically the only passwords you shouldn't use.

...and 'qwerty' ...

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