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“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – B. Franklin

By on February 19, 2016 6:20:52 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
+2258

 

Tim Cook, is saying “No!”, in thunder to the DoJ.

But…”What if there’s info in there that would help catch terrorists?” That “What if” that makes us decide for ourselves the answer to Ben Franklin’s statement. Tim Cook said “No.” to the Justice Department’s Order to assist the FBI extract data from the San Bernadino terrorist’s phone. Wanna know something? He was right to do so.

Why? Well, for one thing, does it occur to anyone that the FBI has the terrorist’s fingerprint? So, why can’t they unlock the phone? Does it occur to anyone the government has super Cray computers which could have unlocked that phone? Why do they want the backdoor which they’ve wanted for a year at least? Why are they saying this is a “once only” when it clearly is not?

The FBI says it would be a “one time”, and that your device’s security wouldn’t be compromised. Security experts disagree: THEY say it will. Guess who I believe? Why should anyone believe that “one time” nonsense? The NSA collected your data illegally for years. Now? Congress has made it legal. Trust them to take your rights without a fight.

From the moment the FBI was created, J. Edgar Hoover collected dirt on everyone and used it to blackmail Presidents and Congresses and Courts. You think anything has changed? They’ve only gotten better at it, and justifying it because they know they’re dealing with sheep (sorry, Jim). The government has violated your rights with impunity, and poo-poo it, and they’ve done it for years…and will continue to do so.

So, if they can unlock the phone (does anyone really believe they can’t?), why ask a Court for an order? Because they want it “legally” (who doesn’t love a farce?), and more than ANYTHING, they want a PRECEDENT. That is what they MUST NOT obtain. The Bill of Rights stands as an integrated whole. The First, Second and Fifth Amendments most definitely depend upon the Fourth Amendment, and “What if” is Not sufficient reason to violate anyone’s privacy, just as “We want to know” isn’t, either.

The government knows it cannot justify the iPhone search with proof there actually is data there which is critical to the security of America. They are acting out of “What if?”. Well, that’s called a “fishing expedition”. It is inadequate reason for a Federal Judge to grant a search warrant. The Court Order was a serious breach of every citizen’s right to privacy and unreasonable search and seizure. Judges guard the Fourth Amendment jealously. They’d better, because the FBI would be looking at their phones with any imaginary “what if” they could dream up. Not just the FBI: Every local Police Dep’t. could “justify” such a search in a similar manner. Where is the boundary?

“We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.” – B. Franklin. Well, The EFF and ACLU, Google, Twitter and Facebook are standing with Apple on this. Shaping up to be an epic fight. I hope “We the People” win. “Backdoors” weaken security. They do not strengthen it. If a backdoor exists, ANYONE can exploit it, and will. The CIA has been trying to break into iPhones for years without success. You can bet the FSB and others have, as well.

So, Tim Cook is vowing to fight the DoJ’s Magistrate’s Order all the way to the Supreme Court. So would I: At best? There’ll be a tie, and no way to resolve it. Fitting in a karmic way.

Source:

http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/fbi-apple-iphone-explainer/

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February 20, 2016 12:10:06 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Taking a wild guess, this report is more important than the current situation in Syria. (SARCASM!"!!!)
Now i ask myself why not buy bunch of new crapphones and try to crack/jailbreak the shit out them. 
Once a hack is successful, try with another new phone with some random data stored on it, before attempting the same hack on the device in question?

The funny thing is that one guy already said, that leaking data from the device could be done with simple tricks...but the FBI was trying to break it for years you say without success - hilarious once again. Ohh and did they or did they not change the SID?  Must has been a breakthrough!
The story just doesnt fit together very well
same like this image


I doubt that this is about personal rights or the ultimate goal to take those away from anyone, nor is it to mass control all of the Iphone users.
The purpose of this is surely much greater nature.

In reference to the first line, Nah better make a huge fuzz about cracking a single device, people will love it and Donald "Duck" can use the opportunity to score some Duffy points. All neat but even that does not seem like the center stage atm?
 




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February 20, 2016 12:19:25 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting benmanns,

indeed hilarious

Not to mention out of touch with basic common sense.

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February 20, 2016 12:23:03 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

We actually have access to all the fossil fuels we need now.  We even export.  We're effectively in the midst of a test of wills with the Saudi's to see who blinks first.  They are keeping production high and prices low enough to make our energy industry suffer.  It's the only card they can play at the moment, quite unlike when they had a stranglehold on supply and could dictate the price.

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February 20, 2016 12:28:10 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The Donald tweeted his call for an Apple boycott... from his iPhone.  He uses iPads as Square terminals for selling his swag on the road.

At least he wears his hypocrisy on his sleeve for all to see, unlike the rest of the potential Presidents who try to hide it.

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February 20, 2016 1:10:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Victechnical,

Thanks for your post and the above portion in particular. What is missing from the conversation is the extent to which the "West's" exploitation of the middle east has made it a target for terrorism. If we were really willing to stop the meddling and meet our own energy needs it would become possible for the situation to change.

 

While that is certainly possible, the situation hadn't changed for the thousands of years before oil was being used commercially. And frankly Muslims as a whole don't seem particularly interested in stopping their quest to be the one true religion, by any means possible. Sure there are some great Muslim people out there, but they do little to anything to help change the path of Islam in any meaningful way on a global scale.

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February 20, 2016 1:25:28 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Guys...the thread was really about our right to privacy.

While things usually do go afield, the religion/politics thing can make some feel uncomfortable...so please, let's end that stuff here, especially since frogboy has stated that stuff should not appear in Forums.

Thanks.

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February 20, 2016 1:53:52 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Politics is (should be) fair game in the 'Politics' section of the Forum.  The topic 'Right to Privacy' could easily be considered a political topic as opposed to a personal computing topic.  So maybe the whole thread should be over there?

You see the difficulty in purifying discussions, no?

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February 20, 2016 2:14:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Guys...the thread was really about our right to privacy.

While things usually do go afield, the religion/politics thing can make some feel uncomfortable...so please, let's end that stuff here, especially since frogboy has stated that stuff should not appear in Forums.

Thanks.

Agreed, I apologize for joining that, and if you'd like I'll delete my previous post if you request it.

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February 20, 2016 2:35:38 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Np i changed my comment 

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February 20, 2016 4:06:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Thanks to the folks who understood.

Privacy, IT, passwords...have to do with several fields...but mentioning specific candidates/religions...well, they have nothing really to do with the topic besides them hypocritically using it to their own jingoistic ends.

 

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February 21, 2016 1:25:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

That'll be right on the money [no pun].

Apple needs to protect its 'bottom line'.

Remember...this company is ever so righteous and humane.... but if it loses a single penny how the hell can it afford to purchase more suicide catch nets?



Let the fuckers first pay Oz the $300 million they owe in 'avoided' taxes .... then I might just consider them slightly less than pond scum.



There are really fucking good reasons why I own exactly zero products from Apple.

Oh yeah, and what about Microsoft?  They too were recently exposed as an offshore corporation NOT paying its due taxes here in Oz..... and you own zero MS products as well, right?.   Google, Yahoo and Adobe are others who were outed for Oz tax evasion, and we don't use their crap, either, right?

Seriously, I don't like any of them, either, but if one is to keep abreast of things in this eectroic age, one has to bite the bullet and use some of those products and services no tax was paid on.  I have an Apple Mac Mini and several MS Operating Systems (save Win 10.... not bloody likely) but I'm far from being a fanboi of either company.... same with Google and Yahoo.... both of whom are being brought before some senate committee to show cause as to why neither paid its tax bill.

 

And anuvver fing.....

You're a nation of 'starkers' in that regard..

I resemble that.  I'll have you know that I happen to have a very well balanced mind regarding such matters and more.  Just because I don't Like or trust Win 10 I'm tarred with the same brush as the other crackpots who cover their minds [and ears] with tinfoil hats.

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February 21, 2016 3:15:12 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Here's a very good article explaining why this is important to the piddling 300,000,000 or so of us to whom it applies and matters.

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February 21, 2016 3:30:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Agreed, Daiwa. It's a great article...and I'm amazed at all the folks who supposedly revere the Constitution as well as those having specialized in Constitutional law, willing to rape it for doubtful results except that once again, terrorism will have succeeded in changing our country for the worse.

Why these savants cannot see that is beyond me.

 

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February 21, 2016 3:45:40 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Agreed, Daiwa. It's a great article...and I'm amazed at all the folks who supposedly revere the Constitution as well as those having specialized in Constitutional law, willing to rape it for doubtful results except that once again, terrorism will have succeeded in changing our country for the worse.

Why these savants cannot see that is beyond me.

 

While terrorism can prosper under its protection [via anonymity] your country is already in a state of 'worse'....just as that 'free speech' ultimatum protects absolutely such creatures as the KKK..... and other fundamentally flawed/insane cult 'religions'.

Then we get idiots from the US wanting to come to Australia and preach such shit as 'it's OK to rape...provided it's on private property'...

Allowing such idiots to even breathe unassisted is beyond sanity.

Fortunately Oz can restrict permission for such idiots to enter..... bit like the US restricting access to people with a criminal record [because they already have enough of them]...

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February 21, 2016 4:30:14 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,
I'm tarred with the same brush as the other crackpots who cover their minds [and ears] with tinfoil hats.

Hey! I happen to LIKE my tinfoil hat!

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February 21, 2016 4:55:50 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

It's interesting that you seem to think the KKK is such a big deal here, Jafo.  It ain't & hasn't been for a long time.  What whack jobs who still wear the robes usually do so without hoods these days & they can have their space in the town square just like the Black Panthers, Code Pink & any number of similar nutjob clubs.  Mostly, people just smile, laugh, smirk & move on.  What people do is what matters, not what they are free to say.

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February 21, 2016 6:02:47 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,


Quoting starkers,
I'm tarred with the same brush as the other crackpots who cover their minds [and ears] with tinfoil hats.



Hey! I happen to LIKE my tinfoil hat!

You have only one?

 Not me, I have several.... some for different or speial occasions.   I have a closetful, though I keep spares in other parts of the house..... just in case the closet is too far away when the alien, government scanners are about. I just wish that somebody would invent fold up ones that could be kept in yer wallet like a condom, then if you're caught thinking by alien, government scanners while you're out.... but as you well know, current tin foil doesn't lend itslf too well to beimg folded up like that.

As for privacy and its 'supposed' importance to most, it never eases to amaze me just how many blindly trust and willy nilly give it away to companies like Microsoft and Apple.... even worse, Google.

And why have these data mining companies been allowed to collect and store information on just about every Tom, Dick and Harry with  PC and internet access?  It's obvious!   The powers that be only allow illegal/criminal activity when there's something in it for them.... and anyone who thinks some constitution or amendment is going to protect them fom that, they are either deluded or absurdly naive.  Laws and constitutions, while they appear to offer the average person something to believe in, are not drafted to protect or give the average Joe and his missus anything much, certainly nothing of real value..  No, they are drafted to control and keep him and her poor while the wealthy and powers that be, often times they are one and the same, divvy up the proceeds of ill-gotten gain between them.

I bumped into a 'good' politician once.  Well it was actually his headtone, but you get my meaning.

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February 21, 2016 6:36:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

While terrorism can prosper under its protection [via anonymity] your country is already in a state of 'worse'....just as that 'free speech' ultimatum protects absolutely such creatures as the KKK..... and other fundamentally flawed/insane cult 'religions'.

What anonymity? Never heard of the NSA? The FBI can get all of anything it wants...just ask the NSA...or the idiot's ISP.

No...they want to change Apple's (and any other the precedent will determine) OS...and weaken security for millions...and more thanks to the precedent.

They can have all the data WITHOUT changing the OS, and it won't be on just one phone. Amazed you cannot see the real motive, nor the real issues.

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February 21, 2016 7:27:34 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

They can have all the data WITHOUT changing the OS, and it won't be on just one phone. Amazed you cannot see the real motive, nor the real issues.

What I am saying is...if they NEED access to a terrorist's data they can also have mine FREELY.

It's worth it.

I value my life and safety MORE than my privacy.

America as a nation harbors paranoid delusions hence the preoccupation with gun ownership and privacy as well.

The world ISN'T out to get YOU ....but naturally that doesn't necessarily mean you won't at some stage get got.... 

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February 21, 2016 7:30:54 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

BTW.... there is only one country on this planet that has my fingerprints and iris scans .... and it isn't Australia.

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February 21, 2016 7:57:24 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Of course they have your biometric data. That's for the TSA which fails every effing test thrown at it, as well as for when you get lost in L.A.

You actually believe that any info (that they can lift at any time from that stupid phone) is going to make any difference? Those chickens flew the coop long ago. At the time I emailed them after seeing the printer (in the terrorists' home) sitting undisturbed on the floor, and suggested they take it for its hard drive. Duh. You'd think they'd know to do that much, wouldn't you?

They're after every shred of data they can lay their paws on, from everyone with no regard to law. They don't even now what to do with it or where to store it when they do get it. They've run roughshod over the law, warrants and every other "limit" put on them...and have since the days of J. Edgar Hoover who blackmailed Presidents, Judges, Senators and Congressmen. He employed (just as his "professional" descendants have) illegal wire taps, etc. The current FBI, CIA, NSA and their foreign cousins GCHQ, etc. have the world wired and have zero regard for law.

Worse? Their own IT security is beyond laughable: All the details on all the FBI employees were obtained recently when they were hacked. But they're going to save your life. Right.

How long ago was the San Bernadino slaughter? Now they're trying to claim the "ticking bomb" nonsense? That's also the excuse they use for water boarding: The ticking bomb. BS. They've never had that situation, and water boarding (despite an AG's "learned opinion") is torture.

Worse, they're insulting everyone's intelligence with that "Apple's doing it for their marketing and image" bs. Really? Who's stupid enough to swallow that malarkey? And CNN puts a former FBI agent and two lawyers: Allan Dershowitz and Jeffrey Toobin on to "discuss" the implications of the iPhone Court Order...without a real IT security expert on that "panel". See how they direct and misdirect attention?

Sure. Go ahead and weaken security for everyone for data which can be obtained in other ways...so that the criminals have easier access to your OS as well. Makes as much sense as anything else every government does. Because it's NOT about that info. It's about no privacy from any tyrant bureaucrat or police official that has a "need" to look at anything and everything he feels like. Oh, and let's install webcams throughout your home and office "for your security".

 

 

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February 21, 2016 8:01:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm pretty sure all the law abiding nut bars who have been imprisoned and murdered by the US government because they were paranoid and had a gun collection in the mountains, or joined a wacky cult, would disagree with your premise that the world isn't out to get them.  There were kids at Waco, and they went in with armored vehicles and a gas the military had already banned for it's propensity to burn buildings down, when they could have gone in by invitation before they started flying helicopters over the place and putting sniper positions up.

 

My government is the only thing I do fear.  My odds of being the victim of a violent crime are very low.  I'm armed to a level that would send the typical lefty running in hilariously misplaced terror, I wont lose a minute of sleep over someone that makes me shoot them, and I don't live in a violent inner city controlled by liberal twats that tell me I can't carry and try to arrest me for killing an intruder in my own home.  The criminal element should fear me, and due to the reputation for shooting intruders without any legal grief in this area, I don't even have to lock my doors.  My odds of having the FBI or ATF come to take away my guns, using the background check list for gun purchases they're legally required to delete and keeping anyway, are much much higher.  They give me cause to worry in the form of hundreds of different factors that all point to the same thing, a social structure that wants me compliant and harmless so they can tell me what to do and when to do it, and wont tolerate any group that decides they're not interested.

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February 21, 2016 9:08:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,


Worse, they're insulting everyone's intelligence with that "Apple's doing it for their marketing and image" bs. 
 

 

All companies are motivated by one thing. To maximize shareholder value. It's insulting everyone's intelligence to believe that Apple's decision is based on some altruistic motive to keep people's personal data secure. They are positioning themselves in the market to appeal to a certain demographic and secure their loyalty. And judging from many of the responses, I think their marketing strategy is working.

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February 21, 2016 9:11:55 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Borg999,

All companies are motivated by one thing. To maximize shareholder value. It's insulting everyone's intelligence to believe that Apple's decision is based on some altruistic motive to keep people's personal data secure. They are positioning themselves in the market to appeal to a certain demographic and secure their loyalty. And judging from many of the responses, I think their marketing strategy is working.

I have no problem with that.  I'm just glad there's a market for such a strategy.  Enlightened (or otherwise) self-interest works for me.

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February 21, 2016 9:18:23 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Borg999,

All companies are motivated by one thing. To maximize shareholder value. It's insulting everyone's intelligence to believe that Apple's decision is based on some altruistic motive to keep people's personal datasecure. Much like the firearm industry hiding their true motives behind the 2nd amendment, Apple is hiding their true profit motives behind the 4th amendment. They are positioning themselves in the market to appeal to a certain demographic and secure their loyalty. And judging from many of the responses, i think their strategy is working.

Yep, what he said....

Americans' fear/distrust of their own Government and/or authority is the fundamental issue.  Perhaps you need a new 'War of Independence' from your own self.

Who is the bigger idiot....the one in power or the one who put him there?...

 

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