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aphantasia–cannot visualize

By on February 9, 2016 4:30:34 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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My wife and I recently came across a show that referenced a person who had the inability to visualize images in their minds. 

My immediate reaciton was, “Of course they can’t, nobody can.  We call those hallucinations.”  I thought it was absurd to suggest that people could just conjure up an image in their minds. 

Turn out, I’m the defective one: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/science/aphantasia-minds-eye-blind.html?_r=0

So in my case (which for 45 years I assumed was the same for everyone else), I can’t close my eyes and visualize say an apple.  If I see someone and close my eyes I won’t recall anything I just saw.  I couldn’t identify their shirt.   Unless I explicitly memorize it, I won’t remember a visual detail (like what my son’s glasses look like – I have no idea). 

To me, you close your eyes, it’s dark.  Sort of “Duh, of course.” 

I was aware that I could not easily recognize people.  Put one of my friends at the mall here and I wouldn’t recognize them easily.  But until the show we watched, I had no idea that people could actually visualize an image in their mind.  For me, it’s pretty mind blowing.

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February 9, 2016 4:50:22 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

So what happens when you dream? Is it just dark?

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February 9, 2016 5:21:26 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Quoting Borg999,

So what happens when you dream? Is it just dark?

Not dark. Just very abstract.  Flickers of color.

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February 9, 2016 5:33:43 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wait, people can do this while they're awake?  I kid.  Well, sort of, I've never been able to do it, I just figured out that I wasn't a visual learner when I was still in elementary school.

 

The only thing confusing me here is that scientists just discovered this.  I thought this was the whole point of some people being visual learners, who can see and store that imagery for recollection, and people who can't and learn best either by hearing, or doing.  Recalling imagery while I'm awake is as likely to happen as sprouting wings.

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February 9, 2016 6:03:22 PM from Ashes of the Singularity Forums Ashes of the Singularity Forums

Has a publicity designer i have to do it every days along with my team ,my objectives depending what clients want,  i project in mind so then i put on paper so then ower group decide what fit or not to the month project.

But yes not all people can put objects or figures or diverse environments on the mind so then draw it.

 

I have a friend that always draw what he see in his imagination, the result is always what you see in real life its what he draw.

 

My teacher taught me a good way.

Imagine the place you like in a quiet place without noise.
View all the details as you can and draw , if you can manage to draw what you visualize you have art inside you, if you can not you stay just by wanting this job.

 

But i think with some train all can do it test it and you will be surprise after some attempts.

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February 9, 2016 6:08:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

"Visionary thinker"....

The reason not everyone is/can be an Architect [or at least a half-decent one] is whether or not they can 'visualize'.

Better still if you can 'think' your way through a design/structure as if it were a 3D VR tour.

Eons ago my maths teacher revealed he was totally colourblind only saw in greyscale.  That too was an eye-opener [no pun].

 

Fun part is...if you're good at visualizing it all becomes entertaining if you're smoking pot....

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February 9, 2016 6:14:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wow, this is awesome. I mean, these things are super-interesting. Since i feel like all my memories are more or less visual in nature, i find it incredibly difficult to even imagine how can it be possible to have any memory at all without it for someone.

I suppose there is direct connection between this and why i was always shit at math/algebra. If i cant visualize it in my mind, i am screwed. And abstract stuff like math is notoriously difficult to visualize.

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February 9, 2016 7:00:32 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Timmaigh,

And abstract stuff like math is notoriously difficult to visualize.

One of my 'party tricks' was to do long division in my head ...

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February 9, 2016 7:22:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I can do long division in my head, as long as I can memorize the equation.  Suffice it to say the length of the equation is somewhat drastically short at this point.

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February 10, 2016 7:12:16 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Fun part is...if you're good at visualizing it all becomes entertaining if you're smoking pot....

I used to do that. Imagining all sorts of stuff behind closed eyes was, to some extent, exhilarating. Forty years later...not so much. Good thing I still have an active imagination. Weird but active.

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February 10, 2016 7:38:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Jafo,


Quoting Timmaigh,

And abstract stuff like math is notoriously difficult to visualize.



One of my 'party tricks' was to do long division in my head ...

Like Rainman?

 

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February 10, 2016 7:52:28 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Timmaigh,

Like Rainman?

I am old enough to remember a time before calculators ....where the only options were pen and paper....shuffle stick...or using your head...

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February 10, 2016 8:47:40 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Yo Jafo, ya forgot the slide rule.

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February 10, 2016 8:57:09 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

@Frogboy,

You are not the only one. Welcome to the club.

Turn out, I’m the defective one

Defective? According to who? Just different.

 

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February 10, 2016 8:58:17 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting WOM,

Yo Jafo, ya forgot the slide rule.

We called 'em 'shuffle sticks' ...so nope, didn't forget...

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February 10, 2016 2:37:33 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

 




Defective? According to who? Just different.

 

Agreed. The article states people with aphamtasia just have different ways of processing information. Like one of the questions mentioned in the article about knowing how many windows are in your home. The first thing that pops in my mind are images of what they look like in each room. The people with aphantasia  still arrive at the answer regardless. Their process works. I'd like to know how their process works. It's pretty fascinating whenever we learn the things we take for granted as universal experiences simply aren't.

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February 10, 2016 2:57:07 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Eve, I believe the folks with aphantasia learn facts like 1+1 = 2 : They learn that abstract fact without picturing one orange and another one orange - two oranges...with the mental picture of 2 oranges. While the non-affected are analog, the affected are digital...make sense?

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February 10, 2016 5:07:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

As someone with one of those very strange brains that remembers things oddly, I can explain my typical process of recollection.

It's a bit like random firing, a vast sea of facts that can't be sifted through, and you lock into a particular subject and things just start coming up.  Actually visualizing what someone or something looks like is like trying to focus on a spot in my vision, it slides away as soon as you do.

 

If you're trying to recall the name of someone you met a month ago, it's all but impossible.  Your chances of ever recalling their name will depend on how many ways you can come up with it, did you play pool together, do they have the same name as someone else you're familiar with, do they look like someone else.  Every detail that sticks out will help, because when you're trying to figure out their name, those details are what you have to actually think about.

 

When you're trying to recall something larger that fits together, like the way a command economy works versus a market economy, or the plot of a book, you dip into that general area and grab hold of one little bit of information.  From there it spreads like a virus and pretty soon you've got the entire subject mapped out, with extraneous thoughts that are only somewhat relational to the subject firing off throughout.

 

Dates, names, things that are arbitrary, disconnected from the overall fabric of what something is, are like using a sieve.  They just wont come.  I can recall playing pool in college, and remember a staggering depth of detail about the people I played with, details about individual games, individual shots in those games, personality quirks, people that were simply present often are recalled in vivid detail, but I can just barely picture them at all when it comes to physical attributes like eye or hair color.  I remember basically everything I knew about them, but I would struggle to describe what they looked like because it's not part of who they are, and I remember not a single name of any of the dozens of people I could easily map out well enough for them to recognize each other, just because I thought about playing pool.  What makes a thing the way it is, relational material that ties together into something larger, is very easy to pull up, but it comes up like a brainstorm would from a very large group of people.

 

If I want to remember the name of an actor, say Bruce Willis(yes, I forget his name frequently), I often end up recalling the names of many movies, people he acted with, movies they did that he wasn't in, and some times it can be hours before it pops up while I'm doing something else.  I can only tell you there are 12 windows in my house because I know there are two per room, that one bathroom and the kitchen sink have one, that the dining room has a beveled corner for three, and I realized I was wrong and that there are 13 while adding them up, because the living room has two, but I was thinking of the big living room window I had as a kid.  I actually forgot how many windows are in my own living room and had to go look...

 

Not the best example of good recollection.

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February 11, 2016 4:22:47 AM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Maybe that's why you don't require much sleep - no need to process all those terabytes of garbage visual information 

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February 11, 2016 9:42:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

What makes a thing the way it is, relational material that ties together into something larger, is very easy to pull up, but it comes up like a brainstorm would from a very large group of people

Now that's a really illuminating way of putting it.

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February 11, 2016 10:21:19 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Psychoak you got to stop filing information. You don't forget you just stop thinking of it until you need it. I can't differentiate pre four year old memories from dreams they are just a clear as when I had them. Though the more I think the more vivid they get. I have no problem visualizing numbers. Some people doodled as a kid I just had a lot of unlabeled numbers. Why label them if you can identify them by the numbers. Long division sucks decimals percents and fractions to avoid lo gdivision is better. I thought I had this problem until I saw pictures as I read it, so I just don't visualise unless it's numbers. 

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February 12, 2016 1:18:46 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

Fun part is...if you're good at visualizing it all becomes entertaining if you're smoking pot..

And you know this how?

Oh, and I'm not saying what I visualise.

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February 12, 2016 7:23:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,

And you know this how?

I did the student protests  at the law courts re people burning their draft cards ... did the Sunbury pop concert in 73 ,,,, got shit-faced drunk in Paris  in 72 ....was roadie for a band who lost to Bon Scot's one in the Battle of the Bands...BEFORE ACDC.... been there done that....

...and yes, one of the lesser evils was smoking weed....

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February 12, 2016 9:36:43 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

one of the lesser evils was smoking weed.

Not for me... can't touch the stuff without becoming quite ill.  Simply put, something in it does not agree with me.

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February 22, 2016 6:28:26 AM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Don't know whether I have to be grateful for this post or not. For almost 50 years I've lived in blissful ignorance, now I know I'm missing out on something

I never understood people who hated a movie adaption because it didn't match the way they saw the original book, I could never visualize one. And I'm afraid I would like to.

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February 22, 2016 10:24:55 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm the opposite. Everything gets visualized for me (especially faces, not always names ). But now this makes a lot of sense on why I see ways to fix things or do things that my wife may not see. (And why me trying to explain it makes no sense to someone who can't see it visually in their mind)

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