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pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc

By on November 29, 2011 1:07:18 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
+182

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:  https://forums.demigodthegame.com/454943/

Please join me if you like.

 

 

 


 

 

Am I streaming


 

 

Well, I started a thread  back in August (http://forums.joeuser.com/411269/) that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheiRB76x5g
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

 

Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow - http://www.lolking.net/guides/7906
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August 12, 2013 10:56:41 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Well, some fun games last night a few frustrating ones.  Last 2 games had our top laner's with either major connection problems or dc's.  End result was unwinnable games against weaker opponents.  The 2nd dc loss was a bit stuck in my craw.  heh... I stayed up late to get that game in because I was so annoyed about the loss in the previous game due to dc.  Ah well... whatchagonnado.

So, I tried the galio setup that Brad suggested - honestly, I can't say for sure how well it worked as we had our dc problem and that changed a few things.  I rushed chalice and boots 1. Then immediately went for twin shadows.  At the next opportune moment, I went bot for a gank.  We only caught 1 if I'm remember right, and it did not put us into a position to dragon if I'm remembering right... I also might not remember right.  Anyway, right after that I finished athene's and starting on liandry's.  I think that's a reasonable way to build galio.  Pretty important to secure that dragon.  I don't really like rushing TS, but it makes sense and doesn't really hurt galio. 

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August 12, 2013 3:02:23 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

This is worth checking out imo.  Actually, its a pretty decent way to get some free rp.  American Express has a prepaid debit card that gets you quite a bit of RP for next to nothing.

http://about.americanexpress.com/news/pr/2013/amex-prepaid-partner-league-of-legends.aspx

With RP+ from American Express Serve, players can earn Riot Points in a number of ways:

  • +1,000 RP with complete registration -- no credit check, no activation fee, no minimum balance
  • +1,000 RP the first time you load $20 to your Account
  • +10,000 RP the first time you use Direct Deposit to add $20 or more to your Account
  • +1,000 RP for your first 10 purchases with your Card

If you really wanted to milk this, you could likely setup a small direct deposit to this card to get that 10k rp.  Personally, I'd likely load $20 to the ard and get 2k rp. 

I don't think you can get these yet... pretty sure they are out soon.  But its official.

Odds are you could put $20 on the card, get your 2k rp, then credit the entire $20 to your amazon account (if you use amazon).  You wouldn't lose anything and would gain 2k rp. 

 

This also sounds like a completely horrible idea for riot to be involved in. 

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August 12, 2013 6:59:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So you figured out my master plan.  Oh well, it can't be helped.

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August 12, 2013 8:15:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

lucian is due to be released tomorrow say reddit pants

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August 12, 2013 9:55:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

7k

 

It's the 7k! Good job on the streaming!

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August 12, 2013 10:22:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Pwnt

 

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August 12, 2013 10:23:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Grendelgod,
It's the 7k! Good job on the streaming!

heya bro - add pacov as a pal.

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August 12, 2013 10:25:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

2,000,000 views gets next prize - nice try hedgie

who gives out a prize for a million views... bush league.  My bet is that rui won.

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August 12, 2013 11:56:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hey - I think I might vlog the end of the night recap/my thoughts.  Check back here in 5 min if u want to watch live.  I'll have twitch chat up if you want to jibba jabba with me.  Back in 5.  Will post a link prob in the morning for anyone interested. 

 

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August 13, 2013 12:26:37 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

link to vlog incoming then off to bed.  Quite a bit of rambling out of pacov... :/

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August 13, 2013 12:36:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

off to sleep - here's the vod http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2742350

 

Uploading to youtube, so check there if that works better for you and interested.

 


 

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August 13, 2013 10:31:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

streaming an in house game.  Live in about 5 min

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August 14, 2013 12:21:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm off to bed.  I spoke with my 7k contest winner (I don't think its rui anymore).  I tried to gift them the prize but riot has a system in place that doesn't let you gift folks that you just added as pals.  Anyway, I'll keep trying over the next few days and let you folks know what I hooked him up with.  Hopefully you'll see our new pal in some games sometime soon. 

In house games - I'm tired and not going to go into this much atm, but I was extremely disappointed at our showing in game 1.  What we saw in game 2 was what I expected to happen.  That's entirely based on bot lane, btw... so please don't take offense. I thought we'd crush hard bot lane and instead got worked all game long.  Game 2... well, that wasn't a problem.  I took a more fuck cs fuck you mentality during initial laning and did everything I could to drop bot tower so we could roam quickly.  Then, everything fell into place for the outer towers.  Dropped bot, then mid, the top in quick order.  Just going to call out that it wasn't some amazing strategy outside of me decided to put as much pressure on bot tower to kill that quick.  We just got lucky on the timing for wiping the remaining towers imo.  Swan had a decent showing imo and I was decent about capitalizing on errors.

All of that said, I was completely defiled in the previous game... so, I don't really need called to the carpet or anything.  Couldn't get shit together in game 1.  Anyway, I will make some vids and put out both games on twitch/youtube for those that are interested tomorrow. 

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August 14, 2013 12:42:11 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

where's muh lucian?

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August 14, 2013 1:12:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

In house games - I'm tired and not going to go into this much atm, but I was extremely disappointed at our showing in game 1.  What we saw in game 2 was what I expected to happen.  That's entirely based on bot lane, btw... so please don't take offense. I thought we'd crush hard bot lane and instead got worked all game long.  Game 2... well, that wasn't a problem.

If you hadn't gotten sleepy, we would have been happy to play another game with the same teams.  Hedgie and I would have been happy to play again with the guys we had whether we won or lost, cause they all did their best to go along with the teams plans without having to be... badgered... into it.

Why do people always seem to get the notion to build Ashe in particular without damage?  I'm thinking some of our problems came from the Blue Ashe build that was going on bot lane, but I could be wrong.  Also, I shoulda banned your Cait.

Was some fun games!

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August 14, 2013 2:01:30 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Thundercles,
If you hadn't gotten sleepy, we would have been happy to play another game with the same teams.

Yeah... old man pacov really shouldn't stay up super late and then head in to work on 3 hours or sleep.  Not such a good idea.  What I wish is that we could get our games going earlier.  That said, I was really happy we could have have those in house games.  My fav.  I think we all would have been on board to finish the best of 3.  I just generally try not to start a game after midnight on week nights. We've sadly been trending towards starting in house games around 10:30-11PM EST, so my time gets a bit limited.

Quoting Thundercles,
I'm thinking some of our problems came from the Blue Ashe build that was going on bot lane, but I could be wrong.

I've never really seen a blue ash build before.  That definitely did not help the cause, but we were working them over pretty well.

Quoting Thundercles,
Also, I shoulda banned your Cait.

I shoulda banned irelia... bryff running away from giving me a penta kill.  bush league.  Anyway, yeah, I was super pissed that you folks handed us our arses in game 1.  Getting to use my best adc did not bother me. 

 

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August 14, 2013 2:56:42 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Thundercles,
badgered

I see what you did there.  Or if you didn't do that, I see what I thought you did there.

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August 14, 2013 7:48:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Uploading these both to youtube as I type.

Game 1 of yesterday's in house - http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2752741

Game 2 - http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2752755

 

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August 14, 2013 8:03:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

duo'd w hunny and streaming some gold II ranked.

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August 14, 2013 8:58:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

somehow managed to pull out a win with a spectacularly dull team.  Could not even fathom the logic of the hive mind... must have run down mid for no reason at least 3 times (already took their inhib, but no chance in hell of ending... and other outer towers still up). 

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August 15, 2013 12:18:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't have a jungle setup for eve where my mastery pages include the word "trol" and appp f u.  I do not. 

Anywho, I fugged around with eve tonight in a couple of normals.  Low skill cap on mr pacov for eve.  Semi successful.  Was completely amazed at the absolute shit leash I got both games at blue tho.  Game one it was down to like 1k hp when I was left.  Game 2 was slightly better getting it down to 600 or so.  Still kind of shitty.  Even worse that my setup is all about super early game ganks.  I couldn't do that at all in game 1 due to the shitiness of the leash.  Game 2 I was able to pull it off.  Anyway, I prob shouldn't play eve, but it was nice to mix it up in the jungle for a change for the night.  Hint - if we ever duo and I play eve in a ranked, I probably hate you. 

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August 15, 2013 12:37:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oh - and I only played 1 ranked game at gold II tonight.  Got a win and 35 lp... so if I keep that rate and can win 2 more games, I'll be in my promo for gold II to gold I pretty quickly.  I was a bit nervous to get this last game in as I had lost 2-3 in a row and hit 0 lp.  Not sure if I might have been demoted, but I'm glad we pulled it off.  Night all!

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August 15, 2013 11:06:38 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

So, I wrote this some time back and wanted to revisit it:

Quoting pacov,
How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

OK.  So step 1 - get inspired.  It sounds a little lame, but here's how it almost always works for me.  I'll be watching someone play LoL and be impressed by how they did this or that.  It's typically me seeing someone whoopin on someone else.  This can happen in a game I'm playing in, but most typically happens when I watch higher level players in tourneys or on stream.  I don't typically check out vids like that on a daily basis, but I do take a look at many different vids per week and occassionally something catches my eye.

OK - so now that I'm properly inspired, I'll do some research.  If I was wowed by a certain player's performance with a given champ, I'll see if I can find a guide written by them or try to deduce their runes or build based on the vid.  Another great resource that I'm turning to more and more is www.probuilds.net.  It's just another site that shows player builds, etc, but the cool thing it does is that it appear to pull in top players builds by game.  So, you can search by the pro or by the champ.  For instance, I can search for ezreal.  It will pull up a good amount of pro players games where they took ezreal and you can see, at a glance, what they are all building, along with whether they won the game or not.  Then, you just click on a particular game and it provides you with the runes/masteries/ability order and even their very specific item order per shopping trip.  In short, its a very valuable resource.  Just knowing what a final item build is fine, but seeing when folks actually get various items is helpful. 

I'll continue this in a bit...

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August 15, 2013 1:17:51 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

OK - continuing.

Now - what I typically pay attention to when I'm watching the vid or game that got me exciting to work on my skills with a certain champ, is how do they combo, what is their typical playstyle, do they have a strong engage, etc.  I don't theory craft any of this initially - I just look for solid play and then seek to emulate that.  It's kind of like when you see a fort pot riven.  Well, you play fort pot riven a bit differently than you would a normal riven.  For pot rivens will be hyper aggressive, typically running ignite, and be looking for any quick opening to kill you off quickly.  So, I pay attention to that playstyle and I see how they accomplish that and when they go ape shite for the kill. 

After I've done a little bit of studying, then its time to fire up a custom game against bots. 

AI match setup

Now, you can't emulate a real game regarding laning/playstyle.  Here are some tips, though.  If you want to practice mid, you can load a full custom game with as a 5v5 with bots on all teams.  Just head to mid and you will be 1v1 mid.  If you want to practice top, load 3 AI's on the enemy team and 1 or 0 bots on your team.  Your team's bot will head to bot lane.  If you have any other number of bots, one bot will go top with you and you won't be 1v1.  For practicing the jungle, well, you don't have any leash, so here's what I do.  I'll load the game 5v5 with bots.  Then immediately head to red/blue - wherever I'm going to start.  If you are in a lane when the bots start moving, well, they might readjust and you could end up with no one covering mid.  So, just be out of sight in the jungle and you'll have 1 ai go top, 1 ai go mid, and 2 go ai.  That doesn't really matter much - just an FYI.  Anyway, you don't have a leash, so you typically have to play your jungle a bit differently but can end with the same basic result provided you weren't going to do an immediately red/blue or blue/red gank.  Basically, I just pick machete + red pots and go directly to blue or red.  I'll smite immediately when it spawns and then cast a health pot or 2.  Once you clear it, just proceed to the smaller jungle camps while you wait for your smite to come back up.  Just work the jungle over.  Then, when smite is up again, smite the remaining big buff and clear the camp.  You should be in decent fighting shape at that point with good health/mana.  Then, just continue your jungle route.

OK - so why bother playing against AI at all?  Well, 2 reasons mostly.  1 - to familiarize yourself with the champ including what abilities you will get at what time, what you will shop for at what time, and, quite importantly in my mind, to get a feel for your damage output and what you can do.  If you don't have a good understanding of your burst, you are going to suck if you try to all in.  See, its often super obvious when you can pull off a kill - the enemy is low hp, flash it down, no barrier, w/e. You just go for the kill.  But what about if you are top or mid lane and the guy you are laning against has 400 hp.  Do you know for sure that you can kill them early game based on your potential dps?  You probably don't unless you are very familiar with the character.  Anyway, in short, the bot setup is great for figuring out your early game damage potential.  That's something I'd always prefer to know going into a game instead of learning on the fly.  It's also excellent for working on last hitting with a champ you aren't familiar with.  Also something that is very good to know before playing a normal game. 

Now, I'd think it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway - bot matches don't really make you are better player.  Oh great - I just got 42 kills in my bot match.  This means both jack and shite.  Bots are stupid and 100% predictable.  If you play enough bot matches, you can easily pick out the patterns.   Kill a tower and the AI will drop what its doing to swarm to that tower.  Do this, ai does that.  Racking up kills means nothing and those kills don't really translate over to normal games because people generally aren't that freaking stupid. 

Anyway, to summarize this section, I think its a great idea to fire up a custom game against bots to try out new builds/characters or refresh yourself.  You can get a good idea early game of your damage potential, can practice last hitting, and can practice combos, etc.  Outside of that, the bot matches aren't all that useful for training imo.

Theory crafting

Well, this still fits a smidge in the AI match section to some degree, but its a lot more work, but is exceptional at improving your understanding of the game, items, abilities, and characters.  The goal is to find the best possible build, ability order, runes/masteries, shop times, item purchase order, for a given champion.  The complexity occurs when you try to do that in detail.

So, we'll start with a basic general premise and build from there.  Good players likely have some idea on what they building and why.  This isn't always the case, but you see certain setups become the standard.  A 21/9/0 adc is likely the most commonly accepted adc setup.  Most folks know this so they simply emulate it because that's what X player does and he's good.  With further thought, you see why X player chooses that setup.  You see the benefits gained from these points in the mastery tree over that point and come to agree with the setup (provided you thought things through this far). 

Ok - so then you get into alternative adc setups.  I've played and tested out 2 variant adc setups with mixed results.  One is a setup that doublelift often runs on a vayne where you go 21/1/8 and get bonus cooldown reduction on your summoners.  You trade off early game tankiness for increased odds of winning a fight after you've burned the enemy summoners as your summoners will be up more quickly.  This setup is best if you are confident you can outplay a particular player.  BUT - you maintain the same AD burst potential.  It's a situational pick.  Another setup I tried was X/X/X (can't remember, but went pretty deep into support maxing out the greed setup).  The advantage to this particular setup was primarily for early/mid.  You extra money would allow you 1-2 pots (can't remember) and potentially a biscuit.  This = more sustain in lane and better recovery if you blow it.  The bad tradeoff with this is that your damage output  is lower late game as a result.  For me, this was a decent setup at one point while I was weaker as an adc.  It gave me enough staying power to safely farm and potentially lock down a kill.  PLUS - added money for more quickly buying items. 

Anyway, my latest theory crafting experiment was all about Galio.  What peaked my interest was the horrible thing that brad was doing to me when I was goofing around with ap corki.  He took galio and came up with a basic setup that pretty much completely countered my silly arse corki build.  The concept is that galio's bulwark combined with spirit visage provides a stupidly ridiculous amount of healing, particularly if anyone uses dots like liandrys against him.  With corki, that pretty much meant that every 4 seconds I'd be healing him past any possible level of burst.  It was sick.  Anyway, the underlying concept started with figuring out if galio with spirit visage would be practical in a normal game and under what circumstances.  I won't cover all the details here, but through theory crafting, I figured out the optimal runes/masteries, the optimum ability order, and a good chunk of the best itemization for him, and general rules re: when to play pick him.  All of that took many custom games and quite a bit of thought of where galio fits in a team comp.  But, as a result, I know the champ pretty much inside and out and my skill level with him has improved tremendously. 

Game Time

After all that (I don't always go so deep as to theory craft up a storm, mind you - its pretty time consuming), I fire up a normal and try out what I've learned/crafted.  Based on the results, I might adjust this or that.  Normal games are very useful for better understanding when you should buy what item.  For instance, on galio, I learned that I would always rush chalice, but there is some flexibility immediately after that for a certain period of time.  Anyway, that's about it.  Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

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August 15, 2013 3:54:37 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Other random stuff...

So - when I run support, I'm typically going 4 greens, 1 pick, and depending on champ, a blue and a red pot or getting 2 of the same.  I think this is pretty optimal for most supports now.  This start usually results in vision dominance.  What I like to do is actually use one of the green wards to ward for jungle and mid.  If you are the blue side, you place it at the river entrance towards the top.  This is extremely useful for giving your mid added protection if they didn't start with a ward or giving them the option to ward the other side or just refresh the ward when its down.  In addition, it helps you see if the enemy is counter jungling so you can quickly respond to stop them. 

Other things - if you are running a support like leona (somtimes sona), I recommend starting with health quints.  The extra durability is great and you an still do the 4 green ward start if you like.

Last, be very thoughtful where you put your 1st pink ward.  Check the enemy support the moment they come into view to see what items they have.  If they have a pink, well... you don't want them just re-pinking you and then you lose yours. 

On mids that build chalice, I really like the following start - 2 of those 180 gold mana regen items (name eludes me), 1 green ward, and 1 health pot.  It's pretty legit and lets you rush chalice pretty quickly even if you have a crappy start.

 

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