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Impulse Sells 'SotS II' which Requires STEAM?!

SotS II requires STEAM to Install & Activate

By on October 28, 2011 11:17:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So ... Sword of the Stars II requires STEAM to Install and Activate. All updates to the game will come through the Steam client. While STEAM does not need to be running to play the game, you MUST have an internet connection to install etc...

 

Why is Impulse even OFFERING this game if absolutely no updates will be coming through the service and it points you to STEAM?! I understand it is owned by GameStop now but this only means they are now losing business.

 

What a frickin JOKE!!!!!!

 

Stardock, please please PLEASE tell me you are going to be using a different service other than Impulse for future patches?!

 

!#$% #$^@#% @#%@ &*(#&!_#^@$%!!!!!!!!

 

 

A boxed retail version for a brick and mortar store doesn't even exist?!

+53 Karma | 60 Replies
October 28, 2011 11:26:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Stardock doesn't own Impulse anymore. 

 

It says in the fine print it requires a third party to use. Not the only game in the Impulse catalog that does this either. 

 

The reason is why is because it gets Gamespot a few dollars, and if you're considering a download game client, you've probably heard and already have Steam anyway so they might as well make a profit off of it. 

 

Stardock is making their own download fulfillment software for Stardock-only products. Won't be shiny. 

October 28, 2011 11:44:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am aware of the fine print it just makes me upset that something that was good and growing is now quickly going to die.

 

I welcome with GREAT anticipation the day when Stardock releases their 'not-shiny' download software.

 

Just was really looking forward to SotS II and now this ... from a company that always pushed against STEAM. It's sad to see the SotS II franchise come to this.

October 29, 2011 12:21:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What's wrong with Steam?

It makes very little sense to "offer" something through Impulse only to redirect to Steam, that's for sure... but Steam itself isn't a problem.

October 29, 2011 2:58:35 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What's wrong with Steam?

Many people, me included, do not accept Steam's policies and refuse to patronize them as a result.  Admittedly these days you must read the fine print to find out what you're buying into if you want to avoid DRM.

For people trying to avoid Steam, Impulse has really been one of the last bastions.  The fact that Gamestop has apparently capitulated doesn't bode well.  For people who want to avoid Steam, the choice may soon be to abandon the hobby altogether.

October 29, 2011 3:56:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

As far as I understand, Steam is required for patching only.

Ive yet to test that you dont need to run Steam to play the game but the Devs said Steam is what they will use to deliver patches.

I went ahead an just bought it off Steam for that reason.

October 29, 2011 7:29:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

There are reasonable arguments for DRM.

What I truly hate Steam for its patching.  Its patching when I don't want it patched since I'm playing a game that plays out over, gasps, days or weeks or months.  It's settings reverting to auto-patch on the slightest glitch, ruining a game.  And of course the difficulty in getting patches when you want them, particularly beta patches.  Yes, there is offline mode - not reliable.  Yes, I can set the firewall to treat Steam as malevolent-ware, but I resent having to do so. 

Which is why Impulse is where I lhave gone to buy games.  I appreciate the Steam warning so I don't buy something I need to play lawyer to get rid of again.  No SOTS2 then.  As long as Rebellion doesn't get steamed . . . .

 

 

October 29, 2011 8:52:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Looking at the way the market's going, Stardock probably lucked out to sell Impulse when they did. If you're a really major publisher (EA, and probably pretty soon ActiBlizz through Battle.net) it makes the most sense to setup your own store and sell the games yourself. That's why Battlefield 3 is Origin exclusive, and why we'll be seeing more of that in the future (it's the only place to pre-order TOR online).

If you're not that size, Steamworks gives you cloud saves, friends lists, matchmaking, achievements, etc... all with what is by far the largest reach of any online store for far less effort then building it yourself.

At the end of the day, Impulse still doesn't offer anything competitive with that.

October 29, 2011 1:24:07 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Tridus,
That's why Battlefield 3 is Origin exclusive, and why we'll be seeing more of that in the future (it's the only place to pre-order TOR online).

http://www.impulsedriven.com/battlefield3

It requires Origin to play, yes, but it isn't Origin exclusive.

October 29, 2011 1:35:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

yep same BS that happened with Stronghold 3

October 29, 2011 2:00:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

At the end of the day, Impulse still doesn't offer anything competitive with that.

Basically Impulse's only selling point is the niche of being the least-intrusive DRM option for mainstream digital distribution.  For people who actually make a priority of that, Impulse is something worth supporting, but I have no illusions; we're a small minority of the market.

Back when Spore released, it looked like gamers were going to stand up and reject DRM, or at very least a large enough segment of the gamer population was going to do so that most publishers/developers would tread carefully around the issue.  But now the vast majority have embraced the very same policies in the form of Steam, and those of us who say "no" aren't getting heard as more and more developers jump on the Steamworks bandwagon.

October 29, 2011 2:13:58 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

The bad thing about impulse DRM is that if you get a program that checks for what changes between updates and copy them you can distribute the patch easily.

I'm getting SS 2 in the near future, but they need to release a patch first. I used to buy games when they were new, but the frustration isn't worth it. Especially since when you buy it later you get wiki's and walkthroughs. Thanks for the heads up guys, didn't even know it came out yet!

October 29, 2011 2:26:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would rather have Steam than Impulse at this point. My how things have changed...

October 29, 2011 2:56:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Savyg,

Quoting Tridus, reply 7That's why Battlefield 3 is Origin exclusive, and why we'll be seeing more of that in the future (it's the only place to pre-order TOR online).

http://www.impulsedriven.com/battlefield3

It requires Origin to play, yes, but it isn't Origin exclusive.

Hey what do you know, I didn't even realize it was there. But if it requires Origin to play then it's essentially no different from a Steamworks game.

October 29, 2011 3:26:16 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

True, though I have no idea how far it goes with that.

I'm not buying it for another few months.

October 29, 2011 3:58:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Darvin3,


Back when Spore released, it looked like gamers were going to stand up and reject DRM, or at very least a large enough segment of the gamer population was going to do so that most publishers/developers would tread carefully around the issue.  But now the vast majority have embraced the very same policies in the form of Steam, and those of us who say "no" aren't getting heard as more and more developers jump on the Steamworks bandwagon.
???

I think that you are not acknowledging some key facts here.

People were upset about Spore because it was using SecuROM.  Thats basically a rootkit.  On top of having to install a rootkit to get the game to legally work, THE GAME DIDNT EVEN TELL YOU IT WAS GOING TO DO IT (the biggest objection - EA argued that they didnt have to tell users anywhere), the game had a limited number of installs on a license (3 I believe), and you had to reconnect to the internet every 10 days for SecuROM to check in on your game.

People have never and are still not OK with rootkits, especially ones the company doesnt tell you about.  That hasnt changed.

But to compare that system to what Steam uses is absurd and silly.  Not only does Steam tell you what its doing, but its not a rootkit, and the DRM is in generally very non obtrusive.  Plus you can offline as long as you want.  The sizable majority of gamers have always been OK with DRM that is unobtrusive and doesnt mess up their computer.  They still are.

Basically, nothing has changed.  Given the huge number of software pirates out there, most people accept it as reasonable that companies put some level of DRM in their games.  It just has to be such that the user doesnt get hosed, and Steam's DRM generally meets that criteria. 

October 29, 2011 4:25:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,
Given the huge number of software pirates out there, most people accept it as reasonable that companies put some level of DRM in their games.

I will be accepting DRM if it was really stopping piracy... in some case, you find already crack on the internet BEFORE the game is released... The only people who can know problem with DRM are in fact the honest player, pirates use version where DRM is already removed...

October 29, 2011 4:48:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,
Quoting Krazikarl, reply 15Given the huge number of software pirates out there, most people accept it as reasonable that companies put some level of DRM in their games.

I will be accepting DRM if it was really stopping piracy... in some case, you find already crack on the internet BEFORE the game is released... The only people who can know problem with DRM are in fact the honest player, pirates use version where DRM is already removed...

The realistic goal of DRM isnt to stop piracy.  Its to reduce it and delay it.  If they can delay the pirated versions by a few months, thats going to make a HUGE difference in sales (especially since after a month or so, a lot of the sales will be on the second hand market where the company doesnt get any money at all).

And online methods like what Steam does works to this end pretty well.  It takes pirates a while to get many of these games to work properly.  So I'd say that Steam is actually highly effective as a DRM platform.

Also, keep in mind that many of the claims about speed cracking games are largely mythological.  The best example being Assassin's Creed II.  Because Ubisoft has ridiculously obtrusive DRM (that requires constant internet connection), lots of people tried to crack ACII ASAP to stick it to Ubisoft.  They claimed to have done so immediately at release, but that was a bunch of BS.  The "crack" let you do the tutorial basically but you couldnt access the real game really.  It took roughly a month for the full crack to come out despite how hardcore people were trying to crack the game.  Of course, in the meantime, the hackers DDoS'd the server so that legitimate purchasers couldnt play, but you have to expect that kind of maturity from such people.

People generally dont have any problems at all with well implemented DRM like Steam does.  They might have some problems with crap DRM like Ubisoft does.  But just because some companies do DRM very poorly doesnt mean that all DRM is unacceptable.  Also, keep in mind that while pirates may not generally have to worry about DRM, they are much more open to more serious problems like the viruses and whatnot that get attached to the kind of bittorrents that they are DLing. 

Basically, my point is that the "NO DRM NO MATTER WHAT" fight is never going to be a success.  Given the HUGE software piracy numbers out there, most companies are going to have to do something.  And dont feed me the "well, if people would be nice to their users the pirates would buy the games".  Thats just not supported by the facts - well regarded games from user friendly companies with little to no DRM are still rampantly pirated to huge degrees.  So if you want to fight a realistic battle.  Fight against ridiculous DRM (like SecurROM and Ubisofts garbage), but not against reasonable and unobtrusive DRM that almost nobody is going to notice.

October 29, 2011 5:30:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

surely it's to stop resale rather than piracy. though it's basically the same thing according to the publishers

October 29, 2011 6:31:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What we're seeing I think is the negative drift of the digital distribution market. Companies have taken this great concept, digital distribution hubs, and basically extended their competition wars through them. You know what's going to kill off people's love of digital distribution? When companies force us to launch two to three platforms at once to basically navigate their copyright and licensing restrictions. EA heralded this with their Origin shenanigans and Impulse crossing over Steam titles looks like Stage Two. (BTW, Origin plans to offer 3rd party titles exactly like Steam does, and Ubi and several other large publishers have already signed on to offer titles there.)

In three years from now, when Origin, Uplay, Battlenet 2.0, are in full swing, in addition to other start ups.....the ease and simplicity of using DD is going to get far more gnarly. You already have tons of posts for new games releasing on DD platforms to the effect of "What? I NEED MY INTERNET TO BE ON?!?!" The level of fine print is going to become even more annoying as time goes on....and bizarrely, it's going to become HARDER to find a source for a game you want rather than EASIER I think, because of this stupid little war between all the DD platforms that's brewing.

October 29, 2011 9:40:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

But to compare that system to what Steam uses is absurd and silly

I disagree; the specifics may vary, but the principle is the same.  With both Spore and Steam, I have to ask permission to play my games, and that access can be shut off for any reason (or lack thereof) at the the discretion of the publisher. 

That said, I will agree on the rootkit and duplicity in the Spore case was especially egregious. 

The realistic goal of DRM isnt to stop piracy.  Its to reduce it and delay it.

While there may be some people who still hold on to this belief, I really don't see any practical reason to espouse it.  There's never really been any strong empirical evidence that DRM actually works, even to combat day-1 piracy.  Really the only metrics we have go by are how well a game sells, and the verdict there is pretty conclusive:  there's no correlation between strong DRM and high sales.

What DRM does is it gives copious amounts of leverage to the publisher over their customers.  As a consumer, I'm not comfortable with that lopsided relationship.

October 29, 2011 11:49:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darvin3,
I disagree; the specifics may vary, but the principle is the same.  With both Spore and Steam, I have to ask permission to play my games, and that access can be shut off for any reason (or lack thereof) at the the discretion of the publisher.

You sure about that? Many Steam games are simply downloaded to the

C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\USERNAME

folder, and can be launched from there even without Steam running. That works and is extremely easy for many third-party games which simply have the executable in their game folder inside the Steam folder.

Of course, Steam doesn't advertise this and prefers you simply use Steam's Offline Mode, but it's not a requirement to use Steam to play games.

Of course, for multiplayer Valve games you'll probably have trouble connecting to legitimate servers if your game wasn't launched from Steam...

October 30, 2011 12:16:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wrath89,
Of course, Steam doesn't advertise this and prefers you simply use Steam's Offline Mode, but it's not a requirement to use Steam to play games.

It depends wholly on whether the games use Steam as their DRM provider or if they're otherwise tethered to it. Those that do require that Steam be running, period.

 

and that access can be shut off for any reason (or lack thereof) at the the discretion of the publisher.

Including such things as that their policy prohibits refunds, so if they can't resolve any issues, you're stuck holding the bag. If you attempt a chargeback due to unresolvable defects, they consider that fraud and will disable your account (and all thus the other games you have that use Steam DRM). That people still want Steam to have centralized control of all their games boggles the mind.

October 30, 2011 12:57:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You sure about that?

If it's not already obvious, I do not use Steam, so I may not be up to date on specific policies as they apply to different applications.  My biggest concern over the past year or so has been Steamworks, which does implement stringent authentication.

That people still want Steam to have centralized control of all their games boggles the mind.

I can accept that some people are willing to accept these drawbacks for all the other features Steam offers.  I'm not going to belittle people for making an informed decision, even if it's one I would never make.  What bothers me is when I am forced into a service I am not comfortable with.

I often feel like I'm cast as a luddite or a pirate-sympathizer in threads like these.  My problem is not with digital distribution services, and I have never condoned piracy.  My concern is for the legitimate consumer who is no longer in control of what they paid for.  I understand that publishers and developers have a responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits, so even though I begrudge it I can understand why Steam does what it does.  At the same time, I'd like the understanding from the other side of this debate that as a consumer I want what is entitled to me under the social (not legal) contract that is copyright, and that is control over a single copy of the work which I have legally purchased.

October 30, 2011 6:12:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I hear you there Darvin.

October 30, 2011 6:21:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Darvin3,

The realistic goal of DRM isnt to stop piracy.  Its to reduce it and delay it.

While there may be some people who still hold on to this belief, I really don't see any practical reason to espouse it.  There's never really been any strong empirical evidence that DRM actually works, even to combat day-1 piracy.  Really the only metrics we have go by are how well a game sells, and the verdict there is pretty conclusive:  there's no correlation between strong DRM and high sales.

What DRM does is it gives copious amounts of leverage to the publisher over their customers.  As a consumer, I'm not comfortable with that lopsided relationship.


Actually in the case of day-1 piracy specifically, there is. It's fairly easy to measure if there's a working zero day pirate release. That's why Ubisoft sticks to their outrageous DRM - for that goal, it works. There's releases of stuff like Assassins Creed 2 up as zero days, but they don't work properly. Of course it also costs them sales because it's so ridiculous that people (like me who STILL hasn't bought Settlers 7) refuse to buy from them, but they get what they want out of it.

But it's all besides the point. iTunes DRM is really easy to remove, and it has nothing to do with why iTunes is so successful. It's successful because it makes doing the right thing really really easy. Easier then piracy even! You get your songs on your iPhone and your computer without any particular though being required. People like that.

Similar to how Canadian ISPs reported this year that P2P traffic is down overall (and Bell is ending their wholesale traffic shaping) - that traffic is being replaced by Netflix subscriptions because again it's really really easy. No fiddling with Bittorrent, port forwards to get better downloads, or trying to figure out if the site you're using is full of malware or not. Push the button and the movie starts. That user experience is beating both pirate downloads and movie rentals because it's easier.

Steam is the same thing for games. Buying games is simple. There's no worrying about patches - Steam does it for you (some power users of long games don't like that, but you're the 1%). I don't need to find downloaded files to install it, Steam just does it (compare the GOG experience with a big game like The Witcher 2 vs Steam's install experience and it's not even close how much better Steam is). If I want to play on another computer, an ever increasing number of Steam games give me cloud saves that don't require knowing what "cloud" is in order to use them. And yes, all my games are in one spot.

Quoting kryo,

That people still want Steam to have centralized control of all their games boggles the mind.

Not if you're a UI guy its not. Once you stop talking to power users and start talking to people like my mom, it becomes blindingly obvious why that's a good thing. Most people want to fuss with this stuff as little as possible and just get to the game. They don't care about the other stuff (unless it bites them, which is pretty rare), and they don't care about technical differences so long as the first solution is good enough (which Steam is). Centrally managed games means one app to learn instead of several, and that's a feature.

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