So morph...it's still snowing hehehe.

@morph- Oatesy actually *did* say that ironsights/SUSAT/ACOG doesn't magically change the difference in effective range.

Though I'd contend that a scope makes a sniper rifle have a much longer effective range (by virtue of allowing the user to actually *see* what they're shooting at).

http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/SA80

That is one of the places where I did my research, though know I look at the Wikipedia page, it appears that this is very similar.

But Morph, as Whiskey said, if you were to take, say, an L115A3 sniper rifle, which is stated by MOD to have an effective range of 1100m plus, (source here: http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/factsheets/l96sniperrifleandl115a3longrangerifle.htm ), do you reckon that that is counting using the scope, or would you take that shot with no magnification?

Of course, with my natural marksmanship capabilities, I could shoot a target 1100m away with no magnification (Limey Man says that is a lie, but what does he know ).

My point is, that surely effective range is the maximum distance at which the rifle will reliably put rounds where it is pointed by a person (as one is needed to fire the weapon), which would seem to be 600m, if you stick the standard-issue sight on it. The ability of the person to see properly doesn't cause the rifle to exceed its capabilities, but in fact stops it from achieving its full potential. I have also seen plenty of people on other sites referencing the higher effective range of the L85A2 when with a SUSAT.

My conclusion, as you may have already guessed, is that, rather than the SUSAT magically boosting the effective range, the admittedly poor, in my and others' opinions, ironsights limit it. As I said, I'm seeing people across the web mentioning how the effective range increases with a SUSAT, though the exact figures vary from 500m to 650m.

Perhaps what you think of as effective range is more like "physical" range or something. What the rifle can physically do when you discount the fact that somebody has to see what he's shooting at to fire it. If a tank has had its sights destroyed, then you could say that its effective range is zero, as the crew can't see where the enemy is.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

So if an L85 can achieve 500m-600m "physical" effective range with a SUSAT, then its "physical" effective range is at least 500m-600m. My understanding of effective range has always been that it is a combination of the weapon's capabilities factored in with the fact that somebody has to use it. Though if we are going by the idea of bullet drop, then it would seem that the ironsights information is irrelevant, and only the maximum effective range with the best magnification available should be made known. However, if maximum effective range is to be affected by human factors, then it would seem appropiate to list the ranges with different sights.

BTW, on the subject of effective range definitions.

"Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target."- http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/maximum-effective-range.html

"This distance is supposed to be the farthest that an averagely-trained soldier using that weapon is supposed to be able to hit a man-sized target consistently."- http://firearmspedia.com/maximum-effective-range/

I would quote more, but I'm going to bed now. I think that maximum effective range is a term that many attribute different meanings, which may lead to some confusion.

Lulz.

I've had school.

I think Altaux might have posted this animated fat guy about 1 million times by now

Care to embed it, mate?

And I've had things to do.

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

↑Gets annoying after the first 7 minutes

On another note: Damn, first time I played such a good Xin carry. Enemy morde had thornmail, sunfire, and GA, and I owned him, lol. Even though he was fed

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Really? Ive been listening to it for 5 hours.

You are a pirate!

You want us to ask you don't you

So, I played a game (LoL of course), and there was these 3 guys (probably Albanian or something), who would spam pings in the map all the time. But when I say all the time, I mean 1 ping every 0.1 sec.

ALL.

THE.

TIME.

I knew it was them, because 1) they were a team, 2) they would all go together, usually leaving me and morde to die in team fights, enjoying the show, 3) one of them actually admitted it.

When I asked them to stop pinging all the freaking time, amumu (the one who was spamming the most), answered me: "Sian Zhao is  dog"  (he meant Xin Zhao, me) .

When Morde asked them to stop doing that, amumu answered: "mord and Sian Zhao are dog"

Then he said: "all american are dog!", then he continued on spamming pings on the map, while he would type "dog" every 10 sec on the chat.

I think that was by far one of them most horrible games I have ever had, and that was due to the fact that we could actually win this game, if they hadnt gotten on my nerves so much. Needless to say, that morde couldnt take it anymore, and said: "I'm out, gg", and then went afk. I then proceeded to do the same (go afk), and watched them die one by one, enjoying the show quite a lot, if I may say so.

GG

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."