The REAL Chatroom

Quoting Oatesy03,

Nah, L98s are the cadet variant of the L85, and are almost always left with iron sights. The only other difference is that they are solely semi-automatic, whereas the L85 can be fired in automatic.

Some units in the army are issued with L85s with iron sights, though only ones which are unlikely to fight except in emergencies.

But anyway, being designated marksman instead of 2IC means less making sure that newbies (with attitude problems) don't die of hypothermia and MORE DAKKA!

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

Dakka. You need more of it. No exceptions.

For any who don't know: "2IC=2nd In Command".

Its snowing here, YAAAAAAAAY!!!!

I havent seen snow in more than 2 years, this is AWESOME!

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Quoting OMG_Shiro,

reply 46

I got 4 theives and 3 paladins last playthrough morph . He updated the game yesterday though made it easier for the idiots who didn't know how to beat it. Ah well I got platnium in the origninal "hard" version.

I havent played that game, Shiro, so I have no idea what thieves and "platinum" are.

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 48

Huzzah!

For my next CCF venture, I will be on exercise at Yardley Chase (a MOD training area) for three days from wednesday. While I haven't been chosen for a command role, I have been chosen to be the designated marksman of my section, which means lugging around this:

instead of an L98 Rifle.

The cons? Heavier.

The pros? Full-auto, as many magazines as I can carry, and a SUSAT sight.

Life is good.

Is that an LSW?? Or maybe not, I dont know

The SUSAT scope is pretty neat.

Btw, has anybody here ever played any S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game?

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 50

But anyway, being designated marksman instead of 2IC means less making sure that newbies (with attitude problems) don't die of hypothermia and MORE DAKKA!

LOL @ the hypothermia comment

Edit: Nevermind, saw Whiskey's comment on 2IC.

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

You need to play it I also beat the enchanted cave game earlier and got all the achievements.

Just tell me the game's name, lol

I wantz to play it!

Btw, I beat Cursed Treasures twice by now.

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Its still snowing!

That is awesome!

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Make a snow bowser!!!

No, it stopped snowing I jinxed it, lol

But I will definitely make a snow Bowser if it starts snowing again (there's not enough snow), and I will call it "Alt".

Sounds good, no?

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Sounds awesome!!!

So yeah, I went and played paintball with some friends (it was one guy's birthday). So yeah, the friend whose birthday it is, he's got a cousin.

A female cousin.

Who is very attractive (at least IMO).

BOOYAH!

You should ask him to hook you up with her

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Is that an LSW?

Yeah it is. The single most useless LMG you will ever find.

However, it does make a kick-arse DMR. Speaking of DMRs, I don't get why we need to introduce a proper battle rifle when we have 2 LSWs at section level already.

I mean, the new rifle may be 7.62mm, but its range isn't significantly longer than an LSW, and it can't fire full-auto when needed, unlike the LSW.

When I have time, I may well go into detail on the loadout of a section, if you want.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 62

Yeah it is. The single most useless LMG you will ever find.

Why is that?

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 62

When I have time, I may well go into detail on the loadout of a section, if you want.

Yes, please do. I am interested.

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

Quoting morpheas768,

reply 61

You should ask him to hook you up with her

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

I'm considering it. It would also give me opportunity to:

1. Get a book back that I loaned him and forgot to grab before me&my dad came home from his house after paintballing.

2. Give his cousin a book that I told her about and she said she was interested in.

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 62

Is that an LSW?

Yeah it is. The single most useless LMG you will ever find.

However, it does make a kick-arse DMR. Speaking of DMRs, I don't get why we need to introduce a proper battle rifle when we have 2 LSWs at section level already.

I mean, the new rifle may be 7.62mm, but its range isn't significantly longer than an LSW, and it can't fire full-auto when needed, unlike the LSW.

When I have time, I may well go into detail on the loadout of a section, if you want.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

Well, the 7.62mm rounds have superior lethality, and especially at long range over short-barreled carbines. Or 5.56mm weapons with chronically short ranges (like the L86).

But yeah, as a squad automatic support weapon, the LSW fails. Hard. But as a DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle), it's really good.

Of course, the full-auto thing, I look at it this way: with the superior lethality of 7.62x51mm rounds, you don't need the automatic capability of a 5.56mm weapon.

@Morph:

The LSW was developed to be an LMG for continuous suppressive fire. However, it is far less useful for that role when compared to other modern LMGs due to the fact that it uses a 30-round magazine, with no capability to use a drum magazine without a lot of modification, and using a belt feed is near to impossible without a complete redesign of the weapon. Of course, some other LMGs can use 30-round magazines, but they usually can also be fitted with a larger form of magazine.

Anyway, the loadout of an infantry section.

An infantry section consists of two fireteams, "Charlie" and "Delta." Usually, Charlie consists of a Corporal (who is also in charge of the section as a whole) and three Privates, while Delta consists of a Lance-Corporal (who is second-in-command) and another three Privates. Of course, this is all subject to the situation. For instance, if the corporal were to be killed, the Lance-Corporal would take charge of Charlie, and a Private would fill in as 2IC of the section.

The weapons loadout of each fireteam is almost always identical. The commander of the fireteam would have an L85A2 assault rifle, then one man would be armed with an L85A2 with an underslung grenade launcher, another man would be armed with L86A2 LSW, and finally one man would have an L110A1 LMG.

The L110A1 is the British designation for the Belgian FN Minimi's "paratrooper" variant, the difference being that the paratrooper variant has a shorter barrel and a collapsible stock.

BTW I'm pretty sure we use the Minimi with a 200-round box magazine to make up for the lower ammunition capacity of the LSW. Could be wrong though. If we do use 30-round mags with it then I have no idea why we have them.

Effectively, the Minimi has replaced the LSW as the suppressing weapon of the section, as the LSW is now filling the role of DMR for the section.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

Well, the 7.62mm rounds have superior lethality, and especially at long range over short-barreled carbines.

You calling my SA80s carbines?

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 65

@Morph:

The LSW was developed to be an LMG for continuous suppressive fire. However, it is far less useful for that role when compared to other modern LMGs due to the fact that it uses a 30-round magazine, with no capability to use a drum magazine without a lot of modification, and using a belt feed is near to impossible without a complete redesign of the weapon. Of course, some other LMGs can use 30-round magazines, but they usually can also be fitted with a larger form of magazine.

LOL FAIL

Why would someone design a weapon as an LMG, and neglect the possibility of making it able to be fitted with a drum mag, or at least belt round feed? Thats ridiculous.

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 65

BTW I'm pretty sure we use the Minimi with a 200-round box magazine to make up for the lower ammunition capacity of the LSW. Could be wrong though. If we do use 30-round mags with it then I have no idea why we have them.

It would be a shame if you didnt use anything else other than the 30-round mags.

Question: Is the L110A1 exactly the same as the Belgian Minimi? And if not, what are their differences?

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

So morph....it's snowing here again.

@Oatesy- yes. Yes I am. Because the SA80 has 300 meters of effective range against a point target.

The M-16A4 has a 600 meter point target effective range.

@morph- Yes, the L86's design is quite ridiculous. However, WWII-era suppressive weapons for small infantry teams used smaller mags than that; the US Browning Automatic Rifle used a 20-round magazine.

As for the L110A1 vs the Minimi, I'm 99% certain that it's a matter of national designation.

In contrast the US M-249 (and variants) are slightly different from the Belgian Minimi (the '249 is based on the Minimi).

You mean 400-500 metres effective range. However, I will admit that, while bulky, the M16 has an impressive range for an assault rifle. Not quite 600, more like 550, but same difference.

However, a carbine is known as a carbine due to barrel length, not range.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

EDIT: New, hastily researched info straight from Limey Labs has allowed me to match your claims over the M16.

The maximum effective range of an L85 with ironsights is 400m/450m. This is working off the principle that if you lack magnification, it's more difficult to see the target properly, and therefore more difficult to effectively shoot it. However, with a SUSAT sight equipped, the effective range is increased to 600m for the L85, 850m for the L86. As SUSATs are standard issue on L85s and L86s, then I believe that that can be taken as their effective range to compete with the M16A4.

Allow me to remind you that while the actual weapon is shorter, the barrel length is very similar to that of the M16. This, my friend, is one of the virtues of the bullpup assault rifle.

Of course, I can understand any confusion if you read figures saying that the effective range is lower than 600m. Most weapons' effective ranges are only given as the physical limitations of the rifle, not the user's ability to see the target. So the 600m for the L85A2 (which is a bullpup not a carbine, though there is a carbine variant) can be considered its effective range when human factors of vision are discounted.

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 70

You mean 400-500 metres effective range. However, I will admit that, while bulky, the M16 has an impressive range for an assault rifle. Not quite 600, more like 550, but same difference.

However, a carbine is known as a carbine due to barrel length, not range.

"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."

EDIT: New, hastily researched info straight from Limey Labs has allowed me to match your claims over the M16.

The maximum effective range of an L85 with ironsights is 400m/450m. This is working off the principle that if you lack magnification, it's more difficult to see the target properly, and therefore more difficult to effectively shoot it. However, with a SUSAT sight equipped, the effective range is increased to 600m for the L85, 850m for the L86. As SUSATs are standard issue on L85s and L86s, then I believe that that can be taken as their effective range to compete with the M16A4.

Allow me to remind you that while the actual weapon is shorter, the barrel length is very similar to that of the M16. This, my friend, is one of the virtues of the bullpup assault rifle.

Of course, I can understand any confusion if you read figures saying that the effective range is lower than 600m. Most weapons' effective ranges are only given as the physical limitations of the rifle, not the user's ability to see the target. So the 600m for the L85A2 (which is a bullpup not a carbine, though there is a carbine variant) can be considered its effective range when human factors of vision are discounted.

Which of course means that the technical limitations of the rifle are 300 meters effective range.

While the M-16A4 has a 600 meter effective range by technical limitations. The older A2 was 550 meter effective range.

However, I would take a G-36 rifle over either the L85 (which is rather heavy and not left-handed shooter friendly) or an M-16 (the '16 just isn't reliable enough for my tastes).

And even then, an AK-series rifle would be preferably; virtually unmatched reliability and simplicity of design. The G-36's advantage is primarily due to versatility.

I'm tired. Guns kill. War's hell, and it's fine by me that way.

Now I'm more tired. Here's an awesome show. D0n hat3 y0h squirmishembezmentsuxmonk. . . . .

Quoting OMG_Shiro,

reply 68

So morph....it's snowing here again.

Its not snowing here anymore.....BLARG!

Quoting Whiskey144,

reply 69

@morph- Yes, the L86's design is quite ridiculous. However, WWII-era suppressive weapons for small infantry teams used smaller mags than that; the US Browning Automatic Rifle used a 20-round magazine.

Yes, I remember that, however the BAR pretty much OMGWTFBBQ PWNS stuff with just 1 bullet. Its stopping power was unbelievable for that era. Am I wrong?

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 70

However, a carbine is known as a carbine due to barrel length, not range

True, true.

Quoting Oatesy03,

reply 70

Of course, I can understand any confusion if you read figures saying that the effective range is lower than 600m. Most weapons' effective ranges are only given as the physical limitations of the rifle, not the user's ability to see the target. So the 600m for the L85A2 (which is a bullpup not a carbine, though there is a carbine variant) can be considered its effective range when human factors of vision are discounted.

That is what effective range means. Discounting any human and environmental factors (if you are somewhere with heavy wind, it will affect effective range for sure), and counting only the weapon's physical/practical limitations.

So, I have no idea why you're talking about iron sights, and SUSAT scopes here. These have nothing to do with effective range, technically.

"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."

morph-

the BAR was very powerful because it fired a .30-06 (pronounced "thirty-odd-six") cartridge; while this was the same round used in the US's M1 Garand rifle and .30-caliber machine gun of the era, the BAR benefited from automatic fire and a sturdy design.

The primary design limitations of the BAR were its weight and low ammunition capacity, as well as full-auto only firing mode.

If you were to compare the weight of a BAR w/ full ammo load, you could probably get a current, 5.56mm LMG with a lot more ammo.

Mostly though, this is because of the composites used in modern weapons, making them lighter, and the smaller&lighter nature of the 5.56mm cartridge compared to the massive .30-06 rounds.

Which of course means that the technical limitations of the rifle are 300 meters effective range.

and

That is what effective range means. Discounting any human and environmental factors (if you are somewhere with heavy wind, it will affect effective range for sure), and counting only the weapon's physical/practical limitations.

= The L85s effective range is 600m, as I said. Somebody thought they'd include human factors when they figured it out, which while helpful in a way, makes comparison confusing. So the effective range is 600m. It has the same barrel length as an M16. Therefore it will have a similar range. The British Army wouldn't use it as an assault rifle if it had an effective range of 300m, which it doesn't even with ironsights. The figure given for a rifle with ironsights is 400m, and unless the SUSAT magically boosts muzzle velocity and/or barrel length, then 600m would be its effective range.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Or alternative Chatroom

morpheas768