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Looking for, ahem, skilled noobs :)

By on October 10, 2010 9:39:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dlarimit

Join Date 10/2010
+20

Actually, that's not a complete oxymoron. I'm new to the whole Demigod online multiplayer business. Currently, I have played a dozen online matches. Unfortunately for me, my winning ratio is ~80%. Unfortunately -- because such stats cause two reaction types: (a) in noob-only games that I tried to join: "WTF, man, you're not a noob! 80% wins! kick him NOW, host!"; ( in skilled-only games: "IN1 who? is this your second acc, huh?" (last night I tried to join a game hoted by marchiandu, with DarkLiath and 4Nana in: the host has begun to interrogate me as to my "true identity" to the point I felt really awkward and decided to leave!). Oh, almost forgot. There is a third possible reaction type: the intermediate level players tend to accuse me of being a "noob basher"

Anyway, I'm looking for someone, not really a pro player, more like a reasonably skilled newcomer that can be my more or less permanent game partner. Demigod is a good game that can be a lot of fun, but nothing is more frustrating than being in the same team with some 400+ matches veteran Rook obsessively fighting to death for a brilliance flag on Cataract while leaving the fortitude-gold lane totally unguarded and spending money leisurely on those cool shiny items instead of getting the necessary citadel upgrades in time. Of course, those guys refuse "to take orders" from noobs, so such matches are a rather unpleasant experience

Sorry for a rant, got frustrated a bit,

IN

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October 10, 2010 10:17:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Err.. pretty sure no one mentioned in the lobby awkward questions about your true identity.  Would have been happy to let you play.. but we had someone else coming and had no room for you at the time.  Feel free to join another time tho.

It's a rough position you're in tho.  I can understand the frustration.  Anyway, I'll keep a look out and message you if you want in to some higher level games.  Only good can come out of that  Win a few times.. that means you've found a decent group of ppl to play with.  Lose a few times.. well that will get your percentage down to fit in better in other games

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October 11, 2010 3:03:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

4Nana, thank you for a quick reply. You are missing the point a bit, though. I'm not bitching about being kicked or not being able to join your game otherwise, mind you. Look, you joined the game session I'm referring to at the very moment when I was leaving because of that unfriendly attitude of marchiandu's, if I'm not mistaken. Nope, he didn't kick me or something - he didn't even ask me to leave, in fact. He just began to question me about this being the second acc etc. I'm not getting hyper-sensitive here and I'm not exaggerating: it _was_ unpeasant to be forced to justify my absolutely legitimate stats in front of experienced players. Anyway, I wouldn't have tried to join the pro-only game, if the noob/intermediate hosts let people in NOT acording to their winning percentage.

A modicum of strategical thinking + ability to read and analyze strategies posted by, say, Kestriel, surely do not make me a pro, and I'm assured I'm still not ready to compete at _your_ skill level. However, if I never play with or vs. pros, how on Earth will I be able to learn advanced (=untrivial) tactics? So, of course, I am grateful for your generous offer to invite me if opportunity arises! Thank you. BTW, I play Sedna or QoT (since obviously, I like to be able to play this game as a strategy it is, concentrating on flags rather than on frags ).

 

IN

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October 11, 2010 3:30:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

INI, if you're ever on I will turbo your Sedna so fast. 4nana can too but I don't think he plays with newbies  

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October 11, 2010 5:05:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ah sorry.  Anyway.. if you have a mindset to learn and you read strategies already that's better than most people.  Just lacking playing experience.. which is an easy fix.  Also, QoT is currently my fav demigod!  Here's my QoT guide I wrote http://forums.demigodthegame.com/387716.  Most people seriously thought she sucked before I started playing her this way (myself included).

 

Hedgie:  I usually never play w/ newbies, but I make exceptions on rare occasions.  OmicronLyrae started out very similar and I enjoyed playing with him right away as well.

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October 11, 2010 5:08:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I wasn't boasting about my Sedna playing abilities being something special (my own estimate of my skill level is "moderately skilled for a newbie", surely not a "real badass") Nevertheless, I like the spirit of your reply (you manage to be provocative without sounding like a complete imbecile somehow, if you get my drift ), and I'm eager to learn from veterans, even if it involves losing a lot of games. So yes, challenge gladly accepted  

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October 11, 2010 5:09:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hey, ^^ i can play with you if you want to + maybe can become a permanent partner (even though i have one, but he cannot be often online, so I end up alone mostly), and don't be feel bad because of that time. The thing is that many players have second account here, so it's common to ask if a player with not many games or something has some other account. If player doesn't have, then it's even better, because new players are always fun However, sometimes matches are sort of organized before lobby (like rematch after previous game, etc) or people don't want unknown (yeah, that is not very good), less skilled players.

Moreover, I think that I've written you a pm after you left, but either that was another person or something else wrong, because i got no response...

And yeah, about those pro skilled level matches. How are you going to know how to avoid some sneaky tactics if they are never used against you?

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October 11, 2010 5:34:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

4Nana: a very good analysis. I always thought people underrate Mulch+Shield combo, and, consequently, QoT in general. You are absolutely right, I find a properly geared QoT a better tank than Sedna (and that's one hell of a compliment): of course, Mulch is a bit trickier to use than Heal, and she doesn't get Sedna's godly aura-like passives -- but she can be virtually untouchable, no doubt about it. Still, I think Sedna is both an easier DG to play and has a better team synergy in most cases.

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October 11, 2010 5:44:35 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Darkliath, thanks for your reply.

I'll be glad to play with you online. Don't expect wonders (at first, at least ), but at least I don't tend to make typical idiotic newbie mistakes (typical, judging from strat threads/articles here and my own limited experience). Well, most of the time   

Oh, about that PM: I'm ashamed to admit I just cannot figure how to send/read PMs :-/ You mean that Shift+Tab function? Like, Impulse chat and stuff?

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October 11, 2010 5:34:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

even though i have one, but he cannot be often online, so I end up alone mostly

hey dark - yeah I see you on the vent channels from time to time.  An easy way to get my attention if you are looking for a game is to pm me in the vent (just leave the chat window open).  I'm happy to get some games going, but if you are just idling in some vent channel solo, I don't necessarily know you are looking for a game. 

I'll play with In1 and dark if you are both on when I am.  Worst case we get a beat down.  At they very least you might learn some things about team tactics. 

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October 11, 2010 5:39:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dark's Sedna has potential (: She gets Silence and knows how to use it so.

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October 11, 2010 5:40:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yup - dark's a decent player.

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October 12, 2010 8:00:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hey Pacov ^^. Well I get enough amount of games usually and i was talking only about my partner (premade).

As for playing with you it's quite difficult I think... I don't want to disturb you at (my) daytime (maybe you work, etc), or you are idling, or not online. While very late at night, when you come, I am usually too sleepy to play and continue idling myself ^^

Also thanks ;] but I don't really know Sedna, I extremely rarely even play her... mostly with or against weaker players with yetis  for some fun ^^. If you saw some other build, it was created on the spot, because my original is forgotten since long ago. (I hate monks, so generals also >.<)

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October 12, 2010 1:28:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

idk you played a killer yeti sedna last time we played... seemed like it was well practiced!  lol

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October 12, 2010 3:07:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

IN1 do a quick forum search for Lagwars Vent, download ventrillo and join us (even if you don't have a microphone).

while you may not have a permanent partner, you will have a group of dedicated players that will be willing to play.  Just look for the Gentlemen channel.

J

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October 12, 2010 6:15:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OMG_Jongalt26: Thanks for your kind offer. However, I feel I should get a bit more comfortable with certain - quite basic, truth be said - aspects of online Demigod before I'm ready to join any group. Yes, I fully understand joining you does not impose any obligations/restrictions That said, I still do not consider myself experienced enough to accept it right away. If your proposition will still be in effect, I'd be glad to join you whenever I go over 50 games mark (I have 25 now). True, my win:lose ratio is good (70%+), but that is a pretty lousy criterion, as we all understand 

Meanwhile, I've played some solid intemediate level players (and several pros, Dakliath included) and learned quite a lot from these matches. My friend list is also growing up steadily, so no, it's not half as bad as I thought at first. Moreover, I'm currently trying to experiment a bit with favor items/builds combinations (and yes, I'm aware of the existence of certain universally accepted staples like BotF).

PS: What do I mean by being inexperienced? Let's put it this way: in theory, I know pefectly well what to do, it's just I sometimes cannot figure how to do it practically. For instance, until Darkliath told me how to attach priest to allied DG, I was actually micromanaging priests that I was sending to my allies! Yes, that means zooming out until the game map looked like in pure RTS games and trying to control Sedna AND two priests going separate routes simultaneously. The fact my allies actually liked the way those human-controlled priests were behaving (they had a tendency to last much longer, obviously) doesn't change the principle: what I've been doing was awkward and, well, totally amateurish You see my point.

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October 12, 2010 6:42:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you really should micro your priests "sorta" like that. Attaching them to it is good, and "well enough" and it helps when you DO have to micro Sedna more mid/late game, but early game you should micro your monks to avoid towers and stuffs.

It's a balance, microing the monks well enough to keep them alive without endangering yourself.

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October 12, 2010 8:05:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ya.. actually that's a really good skill to have.  Should always be watching the monks early game at least.  When your ally is pushing a tower, back the monk up so it doesn't die.  If he's pursuing past a tower, back it up.  Always try to keep the monk behind your ally.  If you think your ally on the other side is going to get a kill, target the enemy with your monk so you can get an assist even though you aren't on that side.

Generally I just attach it and only specifically move in the above instances.. then reattach.

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October 13, 2010 3:24:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'll glady play with or against players of any win% and #games! The only people I steer away from are ones who rage

 

I'll gladly play you with or against anytime I see you online. I just bought 6 copies of demigod to give to my LAN buddies. They will surely have the same problem as they've played LAN heaps but will have no online stats!

 

Maybe you need to deliberately lose some matches lol..

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October 13, 2010 4:09:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Now it's better. The key to reducing the win ratio is to play against 4Nana's team and/or with Darkliath ON your team when she's in her dark mood (no pun intended) or decides to "play Oculus like a noob for this game to balance the things out"  So I've gone down to 2/1 proportion (~60-66%), which doesn't raise as much suspicion and is beneficial overall.

Some interesting conclusions (that will seem rather trivial and absolutely uninteresting to all the veterans out there, no doubt) include: in 2v2 only a ninja/speed Sedna build is viable (Swift Anklet, Boots of Speed, Inner Grace). I've lost a game with a very solid partner (BH_RG) because I was playing a dedicated support to his Oak. In 3v3, which includes, fortunately, a vast majority of matches, full support Sedna taking advantage of BSW mass heal is extremely valuable, if (and only if) the opposing team is not comprised of Assassins entirely. We have lost a game to an unbalanced Assassin-only team with little, if any, strategical thinking (during early- and first phase of mid-game we had 66% almost constantly captured/locked, resulting in a consistently better warscore, did not feed them by early priests, invested in FS, while they were saving for, believe it or not, artifacts) just because I got repeatedly raped by Regulus sniping and UB's... eh, everything. Darkliath's DA was in top form, and our Rook was plainly better than theirs. But poor newbie Sedna just kept feeding those bastards I should have probably gone duelist build for this match-up (BotF, Pounce, early Silence). Well, a lesson is learned, at least 

 

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October 13, 2010 4:43:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you can do the ninja speed build w/out swift anklet.  In 2v2 situation it's nice to have the additional hp of botf when doing the speed build,  picking up j-treads if need be.

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October 13, 2010 4:49:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually, I thought about it. +30% speed from BoS and IG III will probably be enough. It's a bit sad the favor item choice is actually so very limited, but at least there are certain situations/match-ups where you can forego BotF, thanks God.

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October 13, 2010 4:53:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

in 2v2 only a ninja/speed Sedna build is viable (Swift Anklet, Boots of Speed, Inner Grace)

Incorrect. Rather, I will say that ninja and speed Sedna builds are only viable in 2v2 and 1v1. They fail flat-out in 3v3. However, speed builds are only the best (composed to Blood tanking builds) in very, very specific match ups. Otherwise, Cloak of Night Pounce builds or Blood Heal/Silence builds are better (depending on matchup).

Sedna is the weakest general choice against all-Assassin teams, because of their ability to focus fire her down so quickly. If there is an enemy DA, drop Pounce and replace with Inner Grace, or use Cloak of Night instead of Blood (which has other issues).

BSW is an underwhelming favor item and is a weak choice. Blood helps keep you alive better. Cloak of Night gives you another heal, which will be larger and faster than the heal from BSW for most of the game (level 7 and on), CoN also gives you an escape route and pounce builds are more viable with CoN than with every other favor item (pounce -> blink -> pounce). If you really just want to play pure 100% support, Cape of Plentiful Mana is a better favor item for that. It's really only good on Levi with a UB in your lane with Staff of Renewel, or on Cataract when laned with a Staff of Renewel Tower Rook.

1. Heal

2. Healing Wind I

3. SAVE

4. Heal II

5. Healing Wind II + Magnificent Presence I

6. Silence I

7. Heal III

8. Pounce I (counter healing is useless with and against a Rook, but you can get it if you want)

9. SAVE

10. Heal IV + Silence II

11. Magnificient Presence II

12-13. Pounce II - III

14. SAVE

15. Magnificient Presence III + Silence III

 

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October 13, 2010 4:54:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

also, rawr has a Journeyman's fetish. He gets Journeyman's just about every demigod build (:

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October 13, 2010 5:28:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Incorrect. Rather, I will say that ninja and speed Sedna builds are only viable in 2v2 and 1v1. They fail flat-out in 3v3. However, speed builds are only the best (composed to Blood tanking builds) in very, very specific match ups. Otherwise, Cloak of Night Pounce builds or Blood Heal/Silence builds are better (depending on matchup).

I think the right term here is 'imprecise', not 'incorrect'  Come on, show a little faith in me: I am a noob, I have a right to be wrong, yes?

BSW is an underwhelming favor item and is a weak choice.

Forgive me, for I am going to sin by disagreeing with you I find it rather interesting. Objectively, it is very unstable: uber in certain situations (heals yourself and both allies at once during a difficult battle; gives the whole catas-giants wave a second life end-game), practically worthless in other. BTW, you have commented in another (much older) thread that BSW Sedna gets interrupted all the time. Well, from my limited experience: it's very hard for the opponents to concentrate on interrupting mass healing Sedna while being pounded to death by an allied Rook. I mean, if BSW Sedna decides to tank for some reason and then uses the BSW for its mediocre self-heal (which is sort of idiotic, the purpose of this item is totally different), then yes, she might get interrupted (though I did use it under such circumstances and got away with it: 2 s cast delay is not THAT horrible). In a nutshell: BSW should not be used as a personal healing item, unless the alternative is dying. As far as I can see, BSW can only be viable for a healer Sedna. Any other character will be forced to use this item as a self-heal, and then, yes, it will end up being a weak choice and an underwhelming item designed specifically for insolent noobs

Blood helps keep you alive better.

That is indisputable. However, BSW keeps your allies alive better, which is a purpose of a healer/support. With all due respect, people criticizing BSW tend to forget it's a freebie MASS HEAL (!!!), dammit. Like, every allied creature in 15 m radius gets +1000 hp, yes? Otherwise, 2 sec delay 1000 heal is somewhat unimpressive mid-game+, sure. Oddly, I have no issues with its cooldown (which is not 45 s as listed, by the way - I think it's 37 s). It is a good item, just a bit situational. And yes, only an idiot would not agree that BotF is usually a much safer choice.

Thanks for the great tips on CoN/Pounce. And I'm going to try the build you suggested in a modified form (I thought about something similar, but it seemed too risky -- now I know it's viable based on your practical experience).

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October 13, 2010 5:50:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Forgive me, for I am going to sin by disagreeing with you I find it rather interesting. Objectively, it is very unstable: uber in certain situations (heals yourself and both allies at once during a difficult battle; gives the whole catas-giants wave a second life end-game), practically worthless in other. BTW, you have commented in another (much older) thread that BSW Sedna gets interrupted all the time. Well, from my limited experience: it's very hard for the opponents to concentrate on interrupting mass healing Sedna while being pounded to death by an allied Rook. I mean, if BSW Sedna decides to tank for some reason and then uses the BSW for its mediocre self-heal (which is sort of idiotic, the purpose of this item is totally different), then yes, she might get interrupted (though I did use it under such circumstances and got away with it: 2 s cast delay is not THAT horrible). In a nutshell: BSW should not be used as a personal healing item, unless the alternative is dying. As far as I can see, BSW can only be viable for a healer Sedna. Any other character will be forced to use this item as a self-heal, and then, yes, it will end up being a weak choice and an underwhelming item designed specifically for insolent noobs

I have significant expierence with BSW. Mostly on Oak and Erebus. A little bit with Senda.

You can use BSW as a personal healing buffer. Silence also helps you use it without risk, since that prevents interupts. However, Sedna already has one of the lowest max hp out of all the characters (not level 1, but level 10 or so), as well as the lowest armor. She also has significant dependence on monks. Blood helps mitigate her low hp and and also synergizes with monks (BotF translates into 800 hp * .15 / 8 seconds + 5 hps == 20 hps, on top of the 800 hp buffer. This increases when controlling the HP flag. BSW translates to 1000 hp / (45 * .85 + 2) == 24.845 hps, assuming no points in MP and on Cataract with Celertiy flag).

If you have low hp, you will be focused. Unlike Queen, who is ranged, if you are hiding behind your allies, you aren't dealing damage. Sednas without Blood or Cloak of Night are at extreme risk whenever she goes into melee ranged. If you are focused, you don't need to use BSW to keep your allies alive.

I have found one good build for BSW. 2v2, get a UB with Heaven's Wrath, you get BSW. You both push HP side, using Wrath to farm the other side, then you switch. Basically, apply constant and brutal pressure to one side of the map without having to really suffer the consequences of it (via low leveling). This works best when on Light Side so that they can't ninja your gold flags.

However, me and irek did that nearly a full year ago and the average player skill has gone up significantly since then. Additionally, sigils weren't quite super-popular yet.

That is indisputable. However, BSW keeps your allies alive better, which is a purpose of a healer/support. With all due respect, people criticizing BSW tend to forget it's a freebie MASS HEAL (!!!), dammit. Like, every allied creature in 15 m radius gets +1000 hp, yes? Otherwise, 2 sec delay 1000 heal is somewhat unimpressive mid-game+, sure. Oddly, I have no issues with its cooldown (which is not 45 s as listed, by the way - I think it's 37 s). It is a good item, just a bit situational. And yes, only an idiot would not agree that BotF is usually a much safer choice.

I disagree. If you have Blood, you may not need to blow heals on yourself. Your monks help you recover faster. All in all, Blood enables you to utilize your heals on everyone else while still staying around in the fight. The cooldown is 45 seconds, but each team's natural Celerity flag on Cataract reduces cooldown by 15%.

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