Fallout: New Vegas will use Steamworks

Quoting Guest83,

...If Stardock is selling Fallout: New Vegas five or ten bucks less than Steam does, they would make tons of money.

Stardock and Valve don't control pricing for any of the titles on their services apart from their own. Impulse can't undercut Steam's prices to win any portion of the market - it has to offer the games and products on its services at the prices Stardock is told to offer them at and to the regions that they're told to sell them to. Valve and Stardock might be in a position to arrange for a weekend sale here or there, however they can't just decide to sell someone elses game for $10.00 less than every where else.

Quoting Guest83,

reply 22

No one is preventing other platforms from offering Steamworks titles except themselves...

If this is your opinion, then you clearly have no understanding of the market forces in play and the eventual outcome that systems like Steamwork's are designed to ensure; namely, everyone buying and playing PC games through Steam with no exceptions. I've covered this a million times, so I'll sum it up quickly; selling a Steamworks title makes your customers Valve's customers regardless of where or how you sell it. Period.

Quoting Guest83,

reply 22

Impulse, Direct2Drive & Co tried to force publishers to stop using Steam and failed...

They didn't try to force anyone to do anything, they simply replied to Valve's anticompetitve software in the most logical manner possible: not carrying it. And they didn't fail; they haven't even started to fight back yet. Impulse::Reactor, Stardock's answer to Steamworks, doesn't launch till August. It offers the same service as Steamworks without requiring the Impulse client to be installed or running, unlike Steamworks which requires Steam installed and running at all times. Valve doesn't own the PC Platform, however it's certainly trying to and what they're trying to do with Steamworks would be considered a Hostile Takeover in the corporate world. They're forcing Steamworks onto as many computers as possible by shackling it to high-profile games like Fallout: New Vegas and Civilization V in what is a text-book Trojan Horse business strategy. This strategy has a single goal: to force out your competitors and assume complete market dominance in a situation where you can't do so in the typical manner, such as offering a competitive service. You steal your competitors customers. Considering Valve are the leading Digitial Distribution service already, this underhanded business practice speaks volumes about where the company is headed.

Steam works great, and I own several games on their service. However, Valve have some of the worst customer service in the entire industry and have documented cases of banning people for asking why they were incorrectly charged twice for a game. And when Valve ban your account, they have a nice little clause in the EULA which states that they will never unban your Account and will not disclose the reason for doing so. Every game, every piece of content, every update, everything - gone. They nearly equal EA Games in terms of going out of their way to fuck over their customers. Valve and it's service simply doesn't work well enough for me to willingly want to turn my computer into Valve's version of the Xbox, where they control everything from update release schedules, regionally availability to DLC pricing and have the ability to disable my entire collection of games.

And they didn't fail; they haven't even started to fight back yet. Impulse::Reactor, Stardock's answer to Steamworks, doesn't launch till August. It offers the same service as Steamworks without requiring the Impulse client to be installed or running, unlike Steamworks which requires Steam installed and running at all times.

Okay, I love Stardock, but I read the above and I can't help thinking:

You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!’

Quoting kryo,

reply 23

No. Steam has the market power to dictate pricing, while everyone else has to clear prices through the publishers. Even in a best case, trying to sell such things at below-market pricing would result in our selling Steam free advertising at a loss.

This is the sort of result (Steam gets to set the pricing and competition is gone) you inevitably run into when you encourage things like store bundling with games.

Perhaps for Americans, but thanks to regional pricing I can buy Steamworks games at 50% of their price in UK (even more when they have a sale).
Moreover Futuremark (Shattered Horizon) said they get 100% of our money if we buy from them.

Quoting kryo,

reply 23

they would make tons of money.
No. Steam has the market power to dictate pricing, while everyone else has to clear prices through the publishers.

The creators of Worms claim they are actually setting the price, not Valve:

http://forum.team17.com/showpost.php?p=720095&postcount=39

Who's telling the truth?

Contracts (and enforcement) can vary, it was a generalization. Worms games are also available on consoles and other avenues which limits any pricing power Steam may gain if they use Steamworks. However I haven't seen anything about them even using Steamworks, so they're not really relevant to this discussion.

Anyway, don't think for a moment that you're going to find out about all the background wrangling, exclusivity deals, etc. that goes on from public forum posts.

Moreover Futuremark (Shattered Horizon) said they get 100% of our money if we buy from them.

As I said, you can't compete with the producer on price if they want to. Most non-indie publishers don't run their own DD outlets anymore, though. The devs/publishers are the only ones who could reasonably enter into price competition on Steamworks titles in the DD space.

Quoting caross73,

reply 27

And they didn't fail; they haven't even started to fight back yet. Impulse::Reactor, Stardock's answer to Steamworks, doesn't launch till August. It offers the same service as Steamworks without requiring the Impulse client to be installed or running, unlike Steamworks which requires Steam installed and running at all times.

Okay, I love Stardock, but I read the above and I can't help thinking:

You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!’

Lol!!! Okay dude, you're getting some karma for that. Outside of Steam running in the background, I find Steam and Impulse very similar. My whole issue with Steam is the need to activate single-player games online (even boxed retail versions!), along with its purposeful attempt to kill the secondary market in used games. It is hard for me to applaud Impulse for wanting to do the same thing, but better.

Impulse::Reactor, Stardock's answer to Steamworks, doesn't launch till August. It offers the same service as Steamworks without requiring the Impulse client to be installed or running, unlike Steamworks which requires Steam installed and running at all times.

You forgot another important point with Impulse::reactor: you don't need an Impulse account, a Facebook account can do the trick.

Quoting the_hunger,

reply 31

Lol!!! Okay dude, you're getting some karma for that. Outside of Steam running in the background, I find Steam and Impulse very similar. My whole issue with Steam is the need to activate single-player games online (even boxed retail versions!), along with its purposeful attempt to kill the secondary market in used games. It is hard for me to applaud Impulse for wanting to do the same thing, but better.

Er, no. Impulse::Reactor will not require an Impulse account or even Impulse to be installed. It is purely stand-alone software designed to counter Steam's monopoly on working in-game overlays.

Quoting SpardaSon21,

reply 33

Er, no. Impulse::Reactor will not require an Impulse account or even Impulse to be installed. It is purely stand-alone software designed to counter Steam's monopoly on working in-game overlays.

Okay, I'm confused then, because what good is an in-game overlay without connecting to a central server to do match making and stats recording which requires you be uniquely identified.

I'm not casting judgment on software I haven't seen, I was just making a reference to the fact that we don't make good decisions when we're faced with something bad to the right of us and then something unknown to the left.

Reactor is good for tracking your achievements, auto-patching, getting new info on your games, and other community perks that Steam does. Only without having the steamworks network or any network installed and needed to game.

Quoting caross73,

reply 27

'You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!’

Sorry, I don't see the connection. Always a good idea to quote Lord of the Rings, though

Quoting caross73,

reply 34

...Okay, I'm confused then, because what good is an in-game overlay without connecting to a central server to do match making and stats recording which requires you be uniquely identified...

The unique identifyer is whatever Account you use coupled with the Game's ID, which would then create an entry on Stardock's meta-sever for that unique ID combination. So, for example, If I used my Impulse Account it would attach the Game's unique serial code (CD Key) to that Impulse Account and identify me that way on Stardock's servers. If I used my Facebook Account, the same thing would happen: the Game's serial Code would link to my Facebook Account and it would use the two IDs in tandem to locate my stats and rankings. If I then linked in my Impulse Account, I could theoretically use wither my Facebook or my Impulse account to log in and play the game. It still requires you to log in to an acceptable account, however it's not tied to Impulse exclusively. The only catch is that the game using Impulse::Reactor must also be available for purchase on Impulse. If I bought the retail version of a game using Impulse::Reactor, I wouldn't need to install Impulse or even need an Impulse account to play single or multiplayer or update my game. That's why Impulse::Reactor is better - it's a service, not DRM designed to create a Stardock monopoly.

From: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/acting-on-impulse-interview

Brad Wardell

That's becoming an increasing issue with publishers, who have been going to their developers and telling them they can't use SteamWorks

Looks like nobody told Bethesda about that...

Quoting caross73,

reply 34

Okay, I'm confused then, because what good is an in-game overlay without connecting to a central server to do match making and stats recording which requires you be uniquely identified.

That's exactly what Impulse::Reactor does. But it still does not require an Impulse Account or Impulse installed

. It's completely standalone.

I guess FO:NV isn't going to use the "always need to be online" feature, but this is the first time that I've been faced with this dilemma. I've been opposed to steam since its creation and this is my first "must have" that's going to force me to install their stupid store!

My plan, like I did with Fallout 3 is to wait for a "GOTY" edition that will include all the DLC's and expansions and whatnot and see if it then comes without Steam forced on you. If Steam still is then still no sale. I'm sure Steam will still be required because Steamworks is being built into the game. Like 2K is saying for Civ 5, there is no way to take Steamworks out of the game because the game is being built around it. Thus with Civ it will be the first time in 20 yrs I have not bought a Civ game. And thus with FO:NV it will be the first Bethesda title I haven't bought in 10 yrs. Their loss.

I will *really* be upset though if Elders Scrolls 5 requires Steam. Hopefully Impulse Reactor can be up and running by then and maybe, just maybe Bethesda will see the light.

Quoting bonscott,

reply 40

...Like 2K is saying for Civ 5, there is no way to take Steamworks out of the game because the game is being built around it...

I'll put AU$100.00 on the table right now saying that it's available for piracy within 7 days of release and that the pirated version works without Steam.

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 41

Quoting bonscott, reply 40...Like 2K is saying for Civ 5, there is no way to take Steamworks out of the game because the game is being built around it...
I'll put AU$100.00 on the table right now saying that it's available for piracy within 7 days of release and that the pirated version works without Steam.

Whats that in real money? About £5?

Of course it will get piratored, probably by the people who say "oh Im not going to use steam" (Not that im accusing anyone here of piracy) as well as the usually freeloaders.

I on the other hand will buy it, and will have it on my steam account and I will make love to the hawwt ladies steam gives to its blind followers! (At least I think they give you hawt women... you know like a loyalty point scheme? I read it on WikiGameLeaks).

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 41

I'll put AU$100.00 on the table right now saying that it's available for piracy within 7 days of release and that the pirated version works without Steam.

LOL. 7 days? Try 7 hours. DRM never stops pirates.

Having said that I've said before I have no problem with DRM in the game. I hate DRM as much as the next guy but a disk check or even a one time online activation doesn't bother me. What bothers me is being forced to install and have running all the time Steamworks for a *single* player game.

Quoting bonscott,

reply 43

Quoting ZehDon, reply 41
I'll put AU$100.00 on the table right now saying that it's available for piracy within 7 days of release and that the pirated version works without Steam.
LOL. 7 days? Try 7 hours. DRM never stops pirates.

Having said that I've said before I have no problem with DRM in the game. I hate DRM as much as the next guy but a disk check or even a one time online activation doesn't bother me. What bothers me is being forced to install and have running all the time Steamworks for a *single* player game.

I think of it like this. If I want to play an Xbox game, I need to own an Xbox.

Quoting Aractain,

reply 44

I think of it like this. If I want to play an Xbox game, I need to own an Xbox.

Yeah, because an Xbox has the necessary hardware. Does Steam have any hardware necessary for FO:NV to run? Does Steam have anything absolutely vital to proper use of FO:NV that the developers could avoid coding in if they chose to?

Steam is necessary software. The publishers have *THIS* requirment, steamworks is the only high quality option avalible.

If *THIS* is to meet thier requirements then they can't simply "avoid" it.

*THIS* = whatever they actually want and the reason they chose Steamworks.

Quoting Gwakamoli,

reply 4

whats so bad about steam exactly, i've had steam for ages, never had an issue with it. Even back when i had really bad net i could always play in offline mode just fine.

if the game has alway online drm as well as steamworks thats another thing, but so long as it's just steam it's just as rosy as impulse

Loss of control over your gaming experience.

Very disappointed in Bethesda on this one. Looks like Oblivion and Fallout 3 mods indefinitely for me. Lost sale guys.

Quoting KellenDunk,

reply 39

I guess FO:NV isn't going to use the "always need to be online" feature, but this is the first time that I've been faced with this dilemma. I've been opposed to steam since its creation and this is my first "must have" that's going to force me to install their stupid store!

The only way you are going to change the market is to not have "must haves". You can only force yourself to go along.

Oblivion turned me on to RPG's and Fallout 3 took entire year of my life but I don't owe Bethesda anything.

I'm still PO'd about CIV V, but so be it. If it gets really apocalyptic, it's back to board games and D & D. Not kidding. Not to mention my back library of 50 - 60 retail games from 2007 - 2010. I'll be just fine thank you.

I don't suppose there is any chance that new vegas will make it onto impulse in time for release? Fallout 3 did eventually appear, so I wonder in hope.

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Fallout: New Vegas will use Steamworks