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Warhammer 40,000 TT Sim

Does one even exist?

By on May 14, 2010 6:19:53 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I've searched around, and can't find a simulator program of tabletop play for the wargame "Warhammer 40,000". The main reason I'd really like to get ahold of a (FREE) copy is because I'd absolutely love to see how these races play in the tabletop game (my first intro to 40k was the Ultramarines Omnibus, but what hooked me was the Dawn of War PC games).

So, does anybody know of one that-

1. Has moderately good graphics. I'd like to be able to see some detail in the models/miniatures, but I don't mind a moderate graphics quality.
2. Can support ALL the armies of 40K.
3. Can support adding a unit by template-editing; possibly having this built into the game interface would be cool.
4. Can support the usage of varying "points"-value armies. Since units in 40K cost points and there is a points limit, this determines the size of a battle.
                      An example would be a "500" point game, "1000", "1500", or "2000" point game.
5. Is updated for the current codex versions.
6. Is updated for the Cities of Death and Apocolypse expansions.

Other than those points, the only thing I can think of is- that I should be able to download it for free (I'm strapped for cash ATM).

 

+58 Karma | 69 Replies
May 14, 2010 6:33:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There is no simulator that I know of like that.  See if there's a Games Workshop store near you and attend some of their events, or just hang out around the store.  Hobbiests love to show off their armies, talk about the army books and balance etc.  You'll meet some cool people, the store staff is basically there to be friendly, and they'll let you page through the codecies.

GW stores basically try to have things going every week, so it should be easy to see the various armies in action at all different point levels.  If there's no GW store in your area, start checking the local hobby stores to see if anyone runs events.  Good luck.

May 14, 2010 7:06:28 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Sareln,
There is no simulator that I know of like that.  See if there's a Games Workshop store near you and attend some of their events, or just hang out around the store.  Hobbiests love to show off their armies, talk about the army books and balance etc.  You'll meet some cool people, the store staff is basically there to be friendly, and they'll let you page through the codecies.

GW stores basically try to have things going every week, so it should be easy to see the various armies in action at all different point levels.  If there's no GW store in your area, start checking the local hobby stores to see if anyone runs events.  Good luck.

Unfortunately I don't think there's even a hobby store on the Mississippi Gulf Coast that even carries a scrap of 40K miniatures. That, and I'd also (sadly) be unable to get to a store if there was one.

*sigh* Guess it's back to google.

May 14, 2010 7:39:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

There used to be something called Vassal 40k that was in active development before GW nailed the makers with a C&D order.  Of course, this being the Internet you can probably still find it around somewhere.  I should warn you though it is very, very crude and doesn't even have built-in dice rolls.

May 14, 2010 8:10:51 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting SpardaSon21,
There used to be something called Vassal 40k that was in active development before GW nailed the makers with a C&D order.  Of course, this being the Internet you can probably still find it around somewhere.  I should warn you though it is very, very crude and doesn't even have built-in dice rolls.

I found something on it; but alas the 40K module for it was unavailable. CURSE YOU GAMES WORKSHOP! *shakes fist in anger*

May 14, 2010 8:17:46 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Sidenote:  You said you'd read the omnibus.  I've recently been thinking of purchasing a few of the books from amazon and am curious;  was it a worthwhile read?  I find myself engrossed by the story behind the games.

Also,  I'm pretty sure Amazon sells the miniatures.

May 14, 2010 8:41:49 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Saint C,
Sidenote:  You said you'd read the omnibus.  I've recently been thinking of purchasing a few of the books from amazon and am curious;  was it a worthwhile read?  I find myself engrossed by the story behind the games.

Also,  I'm pretty sure Amazon sells the miniatures.

The Ultramarines Omnibus is a great read. I'm pretty sure that any of the Space Marine omnibus books are great; I haven't read any others.

Probably the only thing I'm sad about is the lack of Eldar-oriented books.

And alas, I'm strapped for cash and don't know anyone who's really even heard of the TT game who's local to my current area.

May 14, 2010 9:27:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

quote]The Ultramarines Omnibus is a great read. I'm pretty sure that any of the Space Marine omnibus books are great; I haven't read any others.[/quote]

Appreciate the feedback.  Hope I didn't derail the thread.

May 14, 2010 9:47:22 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Saint C,
quote]The Ultramarines Omnibus is a great read. I'm pretty sure that any of the Space Marine omnibus books are great; I haven't read any others.[/quote]

Appreciate the feedback.  Hope I didn't derail the thread.

You didn't. Considering that Vassal 40K is dead and there's nothing else like it, I'm pretty much stuck with DoW1+WA. Not too bad, but I wish there was a free TT sim.

May 15, 2010 12:24:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Then grab Dark Crusade and Soulstorm, and download the Firestorm over Kronus mod for a TT-ish experience.  It isn't exactly TT since it is real-time and compromises between RTS gameplay and TT stats have to be made, but its the closest you can get without playing actual TT, and the quality of it is simply mind-blowing.

Black Templars Venerable Dreadnought

Yo dawg, we heard you like serving the Emperor so we put skulls on your skulls you can venerate him while you venerate him.

Oh, and the Ultramarines Omnibus is good, but the Eisenhorn and Ravenor omnibuses are pretty much required reading for a fan of the 40k universe, and the Gaunt's Ghosts novels do an exceptional job of portraying the Imperial Guard as something other than faceless meat for the Imperial grinder.  And then there's Brothers of the Snake (also by Dan Abnett) which is about a Chapter of Space Marines called the Iron Snakes who hail from a planet called Ithaka and near the end they engage in pitched battle with a massive Orkish horde 300-style with a phalanx formation and lots of sharp pointy spears.

Some other non-Abnett stuff that's good is the Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! stuff as well as the Horus Heresy novels.  But you really should read the Gaunt's Ghosts stuff first, then Eisenhorn, then Ravenor, then whatever you want, as long as it isn't written by C.S. Multilaser... I mean C.S. Goto, Defiler of Fluff and Desecrator of Background.

May 15, 2010 1:47:44 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I can vouch for Soulstorm but bear in mind I like RTS' and dislike turn based games.  It's over the top savage but I kinda like that, always on the brink of extinction feel.  I'm sure this is well represented in the literature.  But if you're like me,  the game is probably how you became aquainted with the franchise to begin with.

May 15, 2010 7:47:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sadly GW are very, very protective of their IP's and tend to sling C&D orders on a lot of fan based work (there have been several fan-made 40K movies that will never see the light of day!). Any TT simulators will be firmly in their sights as they would be in direct competition to the actual TT games themselves (and would thus lose GW money).

 

To make matters worse, the prices for their products are extraordinarily high these days, making it difficult for those ppl who are strapped for cash (such as yourself) to get into the hobby.

 

As Sareln already mentioned, the best way would be to visit a GW store, or possibly even a hobby store that stocks GW products. Going here should help, as you can also search for gaming groups who you could talk to or join.

 

The only other way of getting a feel for the TT game is to get hold of a copy of the rulebook (legally or otherwise is up to you) and use placeholder tokens instead of actual minis. Coins become squads and characters (excuse the fact that I'm English, but I think a quarter is close to the size of a standard circular base), cut out pieces of rectangular paper for tanks, etc. Or if you are feeling very artistic, you could use something like MapTool from RPTools.net to virtualise a game (still need to rule book for this though, and moderate digital art skills).

 

I should point out that the TT game is nothing like DoW (1 or 2). DoW has a very different rule set and was created only to capture the spirit and atmosphere of the 40K setting, so enjoying DoW doesn't automatically mean you will like the TT game.

May 15, 2010 10:35:23 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

True, DoW1 and DoW2 are really just inspired by the setting, which is why I suggested Whiskey try out the Firestorm over Kronus mod as it aims to replicate the TT game in an RTS setting.  Just take a look at their conversion document.  A lot of newbies have a lot of trouble with FoK since they expect it to play just like DoW, and it plays like TT implanted into a RTS setting.

May 15, 2010 11:26:57 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting SpardaSon21,
Then grab Dark Crusade and Soulstorm, and download the Firestorm over Kronus mod for a TT-ish experience.  It isn't exactly TT since it is real-time and compromises between RTS gameplay and TT stats have to be made, but its the closest you can get without playing actual TT, and the quality of it is simply mind-blowing.



Reduced 62%

Original 596 x 702

Yo dawg, we heard you like serving the Emperor so we put skulls on your skulls you can venerate him while you venerate him.

Oh, and the Ultramarines Omnibus is good, but the Eisenhorn and Ravenor omnibuses are pretty much required reading for a fan of the 40k universe, and the Gaunt's Ghosts novels do an exceptional job of portraying the Imperial Guard as something other than faceless meat for the Imperial grinder.  And then there's Brothers of the Snake (also by Dan Abnett) which is about a Chapter of Space Marines called the Iron Snakes who hail from a planet called Ithaka and near the end they engage in pitched battle with a massive Orkish horde 300-style with a phalanx formation and lots of sharp pointy spears.

Some other non-Abnett stuff that's good is the Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! stuff as well as the Horus Heresy novels.  But you really should read the Gaunt's Ghosts stuff first, then Eisenhorn, then Ravenor, then whatever you want, as long as it isn't written by C.S. Multilaser... I mean C.S. Goto, Defiler of Fluff and Desecrator of Background.

Oh, I know who C.S. Goto is. He is the originator of much heresy. Though I will point out that the Ultramarines Omnibus does actually make the Guard more than the faceless meatgrinder of the Imperium (same for the PDF of Tarsis Ultra incidentally).

Oh, on the RelicNews forums there's a 40K demotivational picture thread, and it shows a single Terminator surrounded by mounds of guardsmen. Ciaphas Cain's got nothin' on that guy (since the Termi is a hero of the Imperium).

Probably the only thing I really hate about Abnett's work is that he obviously has no understanding of how REAL LASERS WORK. Laser weaponry DOES NOT SUFFER FROM GRAVITY.

There's a couple of TT mods for Winter Assault (which I've got) but I think that it implemented the TT-based stats too well. Right now I'm planning on getting the first Dawn of War II game, as it's rather snapped up my attention. Personally, the ultimate 40K RTS would have both DoW1's morale system AND DoW2's suppression system. I also like how DoW2 handled setup weapons with the firing arcs (it's really cool but doesn't fit a large-scale RTS (like the original DoW games) very well; but it's perfect for the smaller scale of DoW2).

I do know that the same team that did Firestorm over Kronus/Kaurava is also doing a similar mod for DoW2.

Quoting Saint C,
I can vouch for Soulstorm but bear in mind I like RTS' and dislike turn based games.  It's over the top savage but I kinda like that, always on the brink of extinction feel.  I'm sure this is well represented in the literature.  But if you're like me,  the game is probably how you became aquainted with the franchise to begin with.

That's also one of the things that's awesome about the DoW games. The over-the-top savagery that, IMO, IS Warhammer 40,000. Now if only there was a mod with Kharn ('cause ya know Kharn's such a great guy).

Quoting Exitalterego,
Sadly GW are very, very protective of their IP's and tend to sling C&D orders on a lot of fan based work (there have been several fan-made 40K movies that will never see the light of day!). Any TT simulators will be firmly in their sights as they would be in direct competition to the actual TT games themselves (and would thus lose GW money).

 

To make matters worse, the prices for their products are extraordinarily high these days, making it difficult for those ppl who are strapped for cash (such as yourself) to get into the hobby.

 

As Sareln already mentioned, the best way would be to visit a GW store, or possibly even a hobby store that stocks GW products. Going here should help, as you can also search for gaming groups who you could talk to or join.

 

The only other way of getting a feel for the TT game is to get hold of a copy of the rulebook (legally or otherwise is up to you) and use placeholder tokens instead of actual minis. Coins become squads and characters (excuse the fact that I'm English, but I think a quarter is close to the size of a standard circular base), cut out pieces of rectangular paper for tanks, etc. Or if you are feeling very artistic, you could use something like MapTool from RPTools.net to virtualise a game (still need to rule book for this though, and moderate digital art skills).

 

I should point out that the TT game is nothing like DoW (1 or 2). DoW has a very different rule set and was created only to capture the spirit and atmosphere of the 40K setting, so enjoying DoW doesn't automatically mean you will like the TT game.

Incidentally, because GW's products are so expensive, I'm compiling a list of all the models I'm particularly interested. Since I'd probably end up having several squads of a number of them, it helps because now I can figure an approximate total cost.

One thing that WOULD be pretty cool is if GW made a TT simulator and then offered it through Impulse or Steam. They'd probably reach a lot more people than they think.

Quoting SpardaSon21,
True, DoW1 and DoW2 are really just inspired by the setting, which is why I suggested Whiskey try out the Firestorm over Kronus mod as it aims to replicate the TT game in an RTS setting.  Just take a look at their conversion document.  A lot of newbies have a lot of trouble with FoK since they expect it to play just like DoW, and it plays like TT implanted into a RTS setting.

That's probably why I didn't like the TT mods for Winter Assault. Tabletop 40K is a lot more vicious (at least it seems that way); but it can be so much more vicious because it's turnbased. After all, if you just take TT and put it into RTS format, things aren't going to be very fun. This is probably why weapons are a bit different in damage capabilities in the RTS games; to balance out the fact that everything can be going on at the same time. 

May 15, 2010 12:06:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

How about a Warhammer 40k mod for Elemental?

May 15, 2010 1:06:08 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Tasunke,
How about a Warhammer 40k mod for Elemental?

Oh my God, I had forgotten about Elemental's possibilites! (HERESY I know)

THIS IS WARHAMMER 40,000! *kicks Gav Thorpe into a Mawloc's maw* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

GET THE GREEN STUFF

May 15, 2010 7:47:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Sadly GW are very, very protective of their IP's and tend to sling C&D orders on a lot of fan based work (there have been several fan-made 40K movies that will never see the light of day!).

Wouldn't it be badass if they made an animated movie with a decent budget?

May 15, 2010 8:52:27 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Saint C,

Sadly GW are very, very protective of their IP's and tend to sling C&D orders on a lot of fan based work (there have been several fan-made 40K movies that will never see the light of day!).


Wouldn't it be badass if they made an animated movie with a decent budget?

Or *gasp* about something other than Spess Mehreens?!

Seriously though, GW seems to be milking the Spess Mehreens so much that the other armies are suffering.

 

GET THE GREEN STUFF

May 15, 2010 9:35:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

By milking the Spess Mehrines, you mean the Ultramarines movie under development?

(Oh no, its not milking, not when its about Space Marines and stars the Ultramarines /end sarcasm.  At least it's being written by Dan Abnett.)

 

EDIT:  By the way, Ciaphas Cain has nothing on Gregor Eisenhorn or Ibram Gaunt.  Nothing at all.

And trust me Whiskey, the Tanith Ghosts would make the Tarsis Ultra PDF weep tears of despair and pray to Baby Emperor for salvation since the Tanith Ghosts are Scottish Welsh Ninja Commandos who have cameoline cloaks and sharp-ass knives as standard issue, plus they have an elite scout corps who can stealth-kill you in broad daylight in the middle of an empty field and snipers who can make headshots through opaque walls.

May 15, 2010 9:48:26 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting SpardaSon21,
By milking the Spess Mehrines, you mean the Ultramarines movie under development?

(Oh no, its not milking, not when its about Space Marines and stars the Ultramarines /end sarcasm.  At least it's being written by Dan Abnett.)

That, and the Space Marines get 50% of all new product releases, have more codices for the different chapters, and account for about a fourth of all 40K TT players.

*sigh* Don't get me wrong, I love the Space Marines (they're just so badass), and I love the Ultramarines (4th Company=Ultramarines Finest); but the fact remains that-

1. Spess Ehlfs are, despite all their failings, super-badass.

2. Guardsmen are way tougher than Space Marines for the sole reason that they are just normal guys, fighting what is effectively super-soldier enemies. It helps that every Guardsmen is issued a set of steel balls.

3. Tyranids. IS THERE ANYTHING MORE AWESOME THAN ALIEN BUGS THAT EAT EVERYTHING?!

4. Orks. The only thing that could possibly supercede 'Nids, because Orks have the need to engage in warfare HARDWIRED INTO THEIR GENETIC CODE.

I'm a little apprehensive at the fact Abnett's writing the script for the movie. Mostly because he displays an alarming lack of understanding on how laser devices actually function. Visible laser beams from lasguns/lascannons (in atmosphere) I'll happily put up with; after all, the las-weapons of the Imperium (and other forces) are powerful enough to kill, thus they probably have enough juice to ionize a few molecules/atoms in the atmosphere.

But overall, GW is really milking their Space Marines. I just wish they'd release more Guard sets. In fact, I think GW could make up for it by releasing a Death Korps of Krieg line of plastic models. Even though ForgeWorld already has some.

 

GET THE GREEN STUFF

May 15, 2010 9:50:11 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting SpardaSon21,
By milking the Spess Mehrines, you mean the Ultramarines movie under development?

(Oh no, its not milking, not when its about Space Marines and stars the Ultramarines /end sarcasm.  At least it's being written by Dan Abnett.)

 

EDIT:  By the way, Ciaphas Cain has nothing on Gregor Eisenhorn or Ibram Gaunt.  Nothing at all.


And trust me Whiskey, the Tanith Ghosts would make the Tarsis Ultra PDF weep tears of despair and pray to Baby Emperor for salvation since the Tanith Ghosts are Scottish Welsh Ninja Commandos who have cameoline cloaks and sharp-ass knives as standard issue, plus they have an elite scout corps who can stealth-kill you in broad daylight in the middle of an empty field and snipers who can make headshots through opaque walls.

And the Tanith Ghosts are nothing to /tg/'s Scary Marines.

 

GET THE GREEN STUFF

May 16, 2010 10:52:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, my personal Favorite is the Imperial Guard.

Second is the Tyrannids.

 

If I made a Warhammer 40K mod, I would first create the Imperial Guard (as default race) and then build everything else around them

 

Tyrannids would probably make Cameo Appearances as an invading feeding-hoard (much like a Mongol Hoard would arrive in TW:Medieval2, only more effective)

-maybe on average once every 200 turns with a lot of random fluctuation.

 

Then I would have the Necrons as a Super-enemy (already in the earth) that can be awoken Mid->Late game.

 

And then Eldar, Space Marines, and Orcs would be normal factions (probably) -> based off of the Imperial Guard format

May 16, 2010 10:54:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

For instance, Marines would have lower pop-caps, lower growth rates, MOAR stats (mainly HP), etc

while Eldar would have even lower pop-caps and growth rates, but interesting web-way based Terra-forming spells, as well as plenty of Teleportation powrz.

While Orcs would have lower pop-caps but HIGHER growth rates, and MOAR stats but not as high as the Space Marines.

May 16, 2010 10:58:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Each race would have various Qualitative differences, while Necrons and Tyrannids would have the most EXTREME qualitative differences.

Then, different factions of each race (Marines Chapters primarily) would have different quantitative traits.

 

perhaps someone with more knowledge of the Lore could advise me on the tendencies of each faction within the races ... as otherwise I am likely to begin making up my own

(and the first three Chapters of Space marines will be Blood Angels, Blood Ravens, and Ultramarines ... mainly because of Dawn of War)

**For Instance (in regards to lore), I want to call various factions of Imperial Guard (Legions), of Orcs (Clans), and of Eldar (Families).

While I know that usually each faction has its' own planet or Star-System, I was wondering if these names are appropriate as opposed to (Planet X garrison).

May 16, 2010 11:17:32 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Blasphemy!  Space Marines FTW! 

May 16, 2010 11:32:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

what part of "Space Marines having the highest stats" don't you understand?

But, as an aside ... The IMPERIUM of MAN will Defeat any Space Marine Chapter that grows too arrogant ... with its own normal citizens, and TANKS. BIG FRIKKING TANKS.

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