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Scratch Civ V off my buy list.

By on May 6, 2010 8:30:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

http://store.steampowered.com/news/3792/

I wonder if this means Brad Wardell will stop working with Civ V.

I just can't support DRM, that while not TOO bad, helps enforce a near-monopoly.  This may be a blow to the other DD providers- as this is the biggest game to do this so far.

 

Hopefully EWOM is everything I want, because now I'm relying on it.

 

(Note: I do use Steam, I just won't support being forced to use it on non-Valve products)

+25 Karma | 726 Replies
May 6, 2010 12:00:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RS-fx,

I just don't get it wintersong : i purchased world in conflict, company of heroes, might of magic 5 on steam and i can play all of them offline in single player.
With an option that can only be activated once you are online. An option that you better have activated everytime (if single player game) except when a patch is needed because if by any chance you forget to activate it and lose the internet connection, forget about playing single player.

If it weren't by abominations like Ubi's DRM scheme, Starforce or ultralimited activation limits, I'd consider Steamworks to be the worse thing ever. Even online validation for install is quite awful too but at least you only need internet once which makes those games usable for machines with some internet acccess (but like Steamworks, totally unusable for offline computers).

And if someone comes with the "things change, you must adapt"... I only use my right as consumer to buy or not to buy based on whatever I decide is important enough for me. Also, the emphasis on many single player games lately into adding multiplayer is just done for DRM purposes (in addition to any possible fun of the MP component... if well done) so go figure. imho.

What surprises me is Frogboy saying he won't buy it. I'm going to suppose that Steam wanted to compete heavily with EWoM/Impulse (in addition to locking others out of competence).

May 6, 2010 12:42:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why should that surprise you?  This was a decision made to attack his business.

 

If I was him, I'd be looking at lawyers potentially for a Sherman Act suit in the future.  (not necessarily doing it, but looking at it)

 

 

May 6, 2010 12:42:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm sure you also still use a horse and buggy, refusing to buy a car (which they only created so they would have a larger market for crude oil anyway)

May 6, 2010 12:54:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RAWRRRR,
I'm sure you also still use a horse and buggy, refusing to buy a car (which they only created so they would have a larger market for crude oil anyway)

You consider a world where all PC games come from Steam to be progress? Interesting.

May 6, 2010 1:32:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Steam is great. You people and ill-informed or just crazy.

Once you validate an installation of a game you no longer have to be online. Almost none of the games on Steam have any other sort of DRM (there are some exceptions. Luckily the Steam store clearly displays any additional DRM a game may have).

Hell you don't even need a CD or DVD to install the game, you can just download any Steam games right off of Valve's server. All game CD Keys, Manuals and other information are stored and organized in a logical manner.

Valve has also released a large update for Steam increasing performance and updating the GUI. Rather being just a system to prevent people from pirating games, Steam actually provides gamers with a service and number of helpful features.

 

Please explain how Impulse is so very different from Steam.

  • Impulse requires you to be online and registered to receive game updates
  • Impulse requires you to be online to install and validate an installation
May 6, 2010 1:36:36 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting TheProgress,
Steam is great. You people and ill-informed or just crazy.

Once you validate an installation of a game you no longer have to be online. Almost none of the games on Steam have any other sort of DRM (there are some exceptions. Luckily the Steam store clearly displays any additional DRM a game may have).

Hell you don't even need a CD or DVD to install the game, you can just download any Steam games right off of Valve's server. All game CD Keys, Manuals and other information are stored and organized in a logical manner.

Valve has also released a large update for Steam increasing performance and updating the GUI. Rather being just a system to prevent people from pirating games, Steam actually provides gamers with a service and number of helpful features.

 

Please explain how Impulse is so very different from Steam.


Impulse requires you to be online and registered to receive game updates
Impulse requires you to be online to install and validate an installation
and now you cooking with gas  

May 6, 2010 1:37:33 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Pardon the aside, but I just got a huge laugh because I don't follow Steam anything, know a little about Impulse Reactor, and assumed it and Steamworks are competing platforms. So I hit the wikipedia to search for Steamworks. Apparently the Steam marketing folks never check the Wikipedia and have no gay friends or family in Edinburgh. I'm guessing they'll build a disambiguation page once they know they need to.

May 6, 2010 1:38:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RAWRRRR,
I'm sure you also still use a horse and buggy, refusing to buy a car (which they only created so they would have a larger market for crude oil anyway)

May 6, 2010 1:42:23 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Impulse doesn't need to be open to be able to play the games you bought off them.

And for me, the new Steam is horrible; can't open a new window in my browser, the game lists can't be long (limitted to 10 each click..and if you open a game on page 40, well you're back at page 1 and got to scroll aaaallll the way to page 41)

 

Granted haven't palyed alot wiht it, but from what I saw, it's only new coat of paint and worse options

 

May 6, 2010 1:56:16 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Maybe I'm mis-understanding, but I didn't get from that post that Civilization V will be available only on Steam, but Steam will have an exclusive DLC.

May 6, 2010 1:59:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting TheProgress,


Please explain how Impulse is so very different from Steam.


Impulse requires you to be online and registered to receive game updates
Impulse requires you to be online to install and validate an installation

Impulse does not require you to be online at all times unless you setup offline mode, which I've heard is very buggy. It would also be very annoying for someone who has a consistent online connection, thus no need to setup offline mode, who might lose internet during a storm or some other event. I would personally be pissed if I couldn't play my games during a time I'd really want to.

May 6, 2010 2:33:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Chibiabos,
Maybe I'm mis-understanding, but I didn't get from that post that Civilization V will be available only on Steam, but Steam will have an exclusive DLC.

 

Steamworks will be on all versions.

 

Some folks are claiming that Impulse could still sell the game, but it would be really stupid to do so, since you'd be giving money to your competition.

 

Also, if it wasn't on all versions, Impulse would have had the game, and Brad wouldn't be boycotting it.

 

May 6, 2010 2:40:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting LEADER MkII,
Impulse doesn't need to be open to be able to play the games you bought off them.
(limitted to 10 each click..and if you open a game on page 40, well you're back at page 1 and got to scroll aaaallll the way to page 41)
 

I'm not sure what that means. My library has almost 20 games listed without issue.

May 6, 2010 3:04:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm on the fence about buying the game now. I want it but at same time I am annoyed that the only way I can get the extra civ is by getting the digital download version, which takes much much longer to install then a dvd would...I am tempted to just wait for the pirates to crack it since I only play single player and if I gotta download the fing thing I might as well download it for FREE.

May 6, 2010 3:04:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have been afraid of this for a long time. I have dropped Empire Total War, Napoleon Total War and SupCom2 due to Steam. Now, I will have to test my guts for real. I consider CIV IV to be the greatest game ever. Then to drop CIV V, it will be like moving away from a loved one

To the people that says "Steam works great for me, what is the problem?" The problem is this: Games sold by only one vendor is generally a bad idea. The marked doesnt evolve like it should, there is no price competition, one company gets too much power (higher prices, too much power over the game creators +++) and the end users have very little say in the matter.

Funny how the business is complaining about lost sales and blaming only piracy, when some of the largest entities are scaring away customers as best they can (DRM, Steam and more).

Buy from 1CPublishing, Gamersgate and Impulse instead!!!!

May 6, 2010 3:06:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting TheJaker,

Quoting RAWRRRR, reply 28I'm sure you also still use a horse and buggy, refusing to buy a car (which they only created so they would have a larger market for crude oil anyway)

You consider a world where all PC games come from Steam to be progress? Interesting.

 

no, my post was in reference to the guy complaining he had to log onto the internet once to play single player.  He wants everything to be without the internet, but yet here he is posting online (sup hypocrisy).  I consider a world with internet to be progress.

May 6, 2010 3:07:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Wintersong,

Quoting RS-fx, reply 20
I just don't get it wintersong : i purchased world in conflict, company of heroes, might of magic 5 on steam and i can play all of them offline in single player.With an option that can only be activated once you are online. An option that you better have activated everytime (if single player game) except when a patch is needed because if by any chance you forget to activate it and lose the internet connection, forget about playing single player.

If it weren't by abominations like Ubi's DRM scheme, Starforce or ultralimited activation limits, I'd consider Steamworks to be the worse thing ever. Even online validation for install is quite awful too but at least you only need internet once which makes those games usable for machines with some internet acccess (but like Steamworks, totally unusable for offline computers).

And if someone comes with the "things change, you must adapt"... I only use my right as consumer to buy or not to buy based on whatever I decide is important enough for me. Also, the emphasis on many single player games lately into adding multiplayer is just done for DRM purposes (in addition to any possible fun of the MP component... if well done) so go figure. imho.

What surprises me is Frogboy saying he won't buy it. I'm going to suppose that Steam wanted to compete heavily with EWoM/Impulse (in addition to locking others out of competence).

 sup I can do it too.

 

May 6, 2010 3:30:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I almost have tears in my eyes now ... this is so SAD

May 6, 2010 3:52:04 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I love the fact that publishers help me decide what I should play.

May 6, 2010 3:56:14 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I also hope that Frogboy will not force me to install GOO if I purchase Elemental via Impulse.

May 6, 2010 4:11:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I didn't know anything about Civ 5, yet I had placed money that this thread had to be about some ridiculous DRM complaint. Good to see that I was right. Call me crazy, but I buy games based on how much fun they are and how easy they are to use. I have to log onto Steam ONCE, set it on offline mode, and I get to play fun games. If you don't have the internet at least one time in your life to run Steam on offline mode, then I'm not sure what the hell you're doing on an internet forum. I don't buy Ubisoft games because I'm not always connected to the internet when I want to play. The difference between the two of them is night and day.

 

To the people that says "Steam works great for me, what is the problem?" The problem is this: Games sold by only one vendor is generally a bad idea. The marked doesnt evolve like it should, there is no price competition, one company gets too much power (higher prices, too much power over the game creators +++) and the end users have very little say in the matter.

You clearly don't understand how markets work. Games sold by one vendor isn't a bad idea. Larger vendors get to take advantage of economies of scale and that allows them to produce products at lower cost. This is a good thing. The fact that there is only one producer is not evidence of a "monopoly." It's evidence that the firm knows what consumers want and does a better job of providing it than competitors.

Your "higher" prices claim is absolutely nonsense, and you would know this if you used Steam. Steam FREQUENTLY offers games at substantial discount during weekend deals. Do you know why they do this? It's to maximize profits. There's more to maximizing profits that charging "higher prices." You have to take price elasticity into account. Steam is so versatile that their menu costs are practically nonexistent, and the EXTREMELY low transaction costs of buying games through it allows them to make profits by offering special deals. Almost EVERY single Steam game that I own was purchased at 75% discount. Retail outlets CANNOT profitably do this, and smaller online distros cannot offer them as frequently due to the fact that they are SMALLER.

End users always have the final say in games they don't like. They don't have to buy them. If consumers want something different then entrepreneurs will provide it. No one is forcing consumers to buy games they don't like.

In essence, stop worrying about the economics of the matter, because you really don't know what you're talking about. Just buy games because you have fun playing them. If the DRM is too inconvenient and makes games unplayable, then obviously don't buy them. On the other hand, if you're not buying a game from a vendor simply because they're a "monopoly," then you're cheating yourself out of a lot of fun. Your misguided notions are cheating you out of enjoying a TON of cool games, and that is where the REAL tragedy lies.

May 6, 2010 4:18:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree that this is preety gay... I was really looking foward to civ 5.

 

Its so ironic though, cause I recently picked up a copy of civ4, because on the box it said "no drm"... and its great, no serial number to type in, hell, i dont even need the cd any more.... it was sweet...

 

and now... this...

eww.

 

I just cant buy anything from steam. They are just... they shit on us, and they can get some of us (see psot above) to get them to think that its ok.

horrible.

May 6, 2010 4:24:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just cant buy anything from steam. They are just... they shit on us, and they can get some of us (see psot above) to get them to think that its ok.

horrible.

I have never have been shit on by Steam. Perhaps if you had indoor plumbing nearby (as I do) they could shit in that instead.

I know, I'm crazy for thinking that buying games at 75% discount is an awesome thing. I'm one of those weirdos that cares about maximizing the value of my hard-earned money instead of worrying about some friviolous DRM complaint.

May 6, 2010 4:34:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Epiphenomenon,

In essence, stop worrying about the economics of the matter, because you really don't know what you're talking about. Just buy games because you have fun playing them. If the DRM is too inconvenient and makes games unplayable, then obviously don't buy them. On the other hand, if you're not buying a game from a vendor simply because they're a "monopoly," then you're cheating yourself out of a lot of fun. Your misguided notions are cheating you out of enjoying a TON of cool games, and that is where the REAL tragedy lies.

 

Now you are just being rude. My understanding of economics are just fine. You dont listen to others but go for the easy insults. I am 38 years old, have 7 years of economic education after mandatory school and I work with developing Private Banking websolutions. That should be enough, but it isnt really relevant here. What is relevant is that one should be able to have an educational discussion without insults.

May 6, 2010 4:37:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I love all the furor over Steamworks when Impulse sells Ubisoft games. Yeah, way to rally against DRM, when you yourself support draconian DRM that doesn't add ANY features. Steamworks is nothing more than Windows Live. The only difference is that Steam is a better distribution platform than Windows Live (yes, Windows Live does sell games).

I'll be happily playing this game. And when my clanmates need to fill our TF2 server, they can send me a Steam message me while I'm in a Civ 5 game, and I'll save, and leave to join them.

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