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Teseer's TB Build: Finding Salvation Through Immolation.

By on December 26, 2009 3:03:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Join Date 02/2008

This is just my personal Build.

I understand plenty of people use other builds and they very well might be fantastic.

This is just how I like playing TB.

That being said, I welcome any comments

General Build:

Blade of the Serpent

Starting Items:
Banded Armor/Universal Gadget (My most often used)
Banded Armor/2 Combat Health Potions (For sure against a Reg)
Banded Armor/1 Combat Health Potion/1 Scroll of Teleporting (For an early gank/save) 

Skill Tree:
Level 1: Fireball I
Level 2: Rain of Ice I
Level 3: Save
Level 4: Fireball II and Rain of Ice II
Level 5: Deep Freeze I
Level 6: Save
Level 7: Fireball III and Rain of Ice III
Level 8: Frost Nova I
Level 9: Save
Level 10: Fireball IV and Rain of Ice IV
Level 11: Frost Nova II
Level 12: Deep Freeze II
Level 13: Deep Freeze III
Level 14: Deep Freeze IV
Level 15: Fire and Ice
Level 16: Biting Chill
Level 17: Frost Nova III
Level 18: Fire Aura/Fire Nova
Level 19: Fire Aura/Fire Nova
Level 20: Fire Aura/Fire Nova

1 - Unbreakable Boots
2 - Nimoth Chestplate
3 - Wand of Speed
4 - Hauberk of Life
5 - Vlemish/Battlecrown, depending on playstyle.

In a game against large burst, I recommend the Orb of Defiance. 

If a game goes on long enough, swap Banded Armor for Journeyman's Boots. Same health, +15% speed and a you-can't-catch-me proc.

Universal Gadgets are almost always in my inventory. Use em to save your team-mate, save a tower, save yourself, or kill someone. No other item is that versatile.

Do not get sigils. 


-This is your bread and butter spell. You need to cast this as much as possible. 

-Towers (Even if the defending demigod moved just a little outside range). You can and will rack up a LOT of damage if you are on the ball.

-General Monks *

-You need to be very careful around Unclean Beast with Fireball, as he can get in range to spit during Fireball's cast. Back off and after a few times you will get a feel for when someone's retreat point is reached (Each player is different.) Target fireball the SECOND he turns around. It will hit him on his ass on his way out while hes out of range for spit.

-This spell casts VERY slow and is VERY obvious. You need to be careful around: 
Oak - Frost Torch Bearer - Lord Erebus 
What you need to do is fake cast and cancel before the cast is half way (or VERY close to finished for LE.) and when they interrupt you, recast.

-When you activate BotS, Fireball II and on will net a gain, so after you use BotS, Fireball SOMETHING so it's 'free' and you gain mana.

-When people are running, look for corners, if you run to a corner you can sometimes get in range for a last Fireball. Do this as often as possible. Make SURE you send them back with that last fireball.

Rain of Ice:
-This spell is increadible. It's your spell for Mana, Experiance and Damage.

-Be Tactful about it's use. Wait for a wave of creeps to be included if the spell can wait a few seconds.

-Avoid using this as a single target spell as often as possible.

-Try to include as many targets as possible in the AoE.

-When alone in a lane, ensure you RoI so the AoE hits the grunts AND the tower. When alone at a lane, use FB as soon as the cooldown is up multiple times until you see the creep wave, hit BotS, drop RoI and Fireball the tower again. The efficiency is fantastic. You can usually drop 2 fireballs between the creep waves and 2 fireballs and a RoI should hurt your mana, so the BotS fills you back so you're ready to drop more fireballs (and the first will give you more mana back due to BotS. If you do this every other creep wave, you won't ever have to stop casting. Obviously you won't be just by yourself at a tower often, but look for chances. If they leave you alone, punish that tower.

-Try to keep at least half of the mana needed for a RoI. Makes it MUCH easier to keep topped off on mana with BotS.

-The range on this spell is obscene. If someone is running and you can still see them, chances are you can RoI them.

-The attack speed debuff is often overlooked. TB hits like a truck WITHOUT gear (other then BotS) so you can AA someone down if needed. The Attack Speed debuff is great for helping you get that edge so RoI right before you both AA.

-Biting Chill is an amazing addition to RoI (if the game gets this far). It is GREAT for shatters, but sometimes the 75% reduction is FAR more benefitial. RoI at range and it will help a LOT with attrition as HP/MP regen slows to a crawl.

Deep Freeze:
-I've been using this spell wrong. Thanks to Pacov for explaining how it works NOW.

-Deep Freeze is another AMAZING spell. It's a great interrupt, but it also has it's amazing cooldown effect. Much like Mark of the Betrayer, if an ability is used while the Deep Freeze debuff is active, it's NEXT cooldown is increased by whatever lvl Deep Freeze
you have. 

-This is your best friend against Unclean Beast. It is rather difficult, but you can interrupt Spit. Let him chase you to spit (and you know hes going to, it's all that bastard does) and when hes JUST outside of Deep Freeze Range, target it. In the time it takes you to turn and line up Deep Freeze, his spit will go off and you're .1 second cast finishes before his .3 cast. And theres NOTHING on this earth that's more enjoyable for me then to watch an UB choke on his own vomit.)

-At 13, you start doing respectable dmg with a double shatter (650) but skyrockets at 15. (1,275).

-Obviously, this is a spell that will help greatly with portal locks. Watch for the fucker to fiddle with an item and hit him asap. Some people are very good with Deeking interrupts so if you see someone starting and stopping a case, just wait and have DF targeted over them and wait for the next time they start the effect. The second you see then stop moving from a fake cast, hit em with DF. 

Frost Nova:
-Of the novas you get to select with this build, this is the one I select 90% of the time. You can only get one level of the nova you select until level 16 and I feel that the Stun, even if for a short while, is better then 400 damage.

-Don't forget that level 1 Frost Nova, while it only stuns Demigods for 1 second, stuns stuns buildings for 6. This includes Rook's Towers. Look for times to run past two towers to finish someone if they are relying on them for protection.

-Watch for allies going past towers for a kill. Freeze it on the way out for them.

-Seeing as everyone plays Cat, this works great to get by and cap a flag without needing to take out the towers as you can simply run by. Remember you still need to get out if you don't have a scroll.

*(Extreamly important. Generals who dont micro will leave their minions back for a few seconds when they retreat. Take advantage and autoattack them a few times and if needed, finish with a fireball. You are in a mana war and you have unlimited {to a point}, they do not. Make them cast monks over and over.)



General Torch Bearer:

-With this build, try to start most fights in Fire mode. Switching from Fire to Ice is much faster and simpler then from Ice to Fire. Get your fireball off and swap.

-Swap often. Capping a flag? Swap back and forth. +75 weapon dmg and +50% mana regen is really nice.

-Patience. You will need a LOT of this with TB. You wont be able to just run in and muscle someone out of a lane. It takes tact and time. You need to chip away at them until you are sure you have the upper hand.
You will need to Wait ALL the time. Wait for BotS to be off cooldown, wait for grunts to arrive for the next RoI, wait for the right moment for a fireball. You have to get used to waiting.

-Experiance is EXTREAMLY important. No matter what you're doing, keep an eye out for grunts you can farm. Always try to level up as FAST as possible. Hitpoint stacking hurts TB more then anyone else so getting 4, 7, and 10 early can REALLY swing the game in your favor.

-Level 15 is your trump card. You can MELT people with your 3,425 burst. But if the games goes on much longer, you'll lose the Window of this combo's effectivness and end up on a tight spot.

-You are SUPREME at tearing down towers. Your autoattack is HUGE from the get go and when grunts go in as fodder, even if you can just hit the tower 5 times (at level 1) that's over 1,000 damage. Fireball while waiting for re-enforcements and ensure that when you RoI to kill the grunts, the AoE hits the tower too. At later levels, when Frost Nova isn't killer on the mana, you can use it to delay your fodder from dying and be damaging a tower that much longer.


Tactics Per Demigod:
Now, these are pretty much just general tips. It's all stuff I've done to help me in multiple games, but just I said, it's always different per player.


Lord Erebus:
-Know that Bat Swarm is coming. This goes for every DG. So many people on my side just seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that he can Bat even though he's killed them because they didn't prepare once already.

-Deep Freeze RIGHT before he gets in Bite range. Force him to endure a long cooldown on Bite. This right here is enough to push many LE players back. My guess is they don't feel safe without bite ready.

-Fake out your fireballs against a good LE. If you're good, you'll juke his mist, he'll waste mana, and you still hit him.

-Freezing Minions with Frost Nova saves lives. Do it.-Just like UB, be VERY careful about over extending. 

-Early game, you can surprise LE with your AA damage. Let him run at you and bite and AA him and he will get quite the chunk taken.

-Deep Freeze his Stun. It's really easy to spot and hear.


-My favorite 2v2 partner.

-When you're fighting with an Erebus, count on him to finish people. You just want to weaken people to about 50% or less. Erebus should Bat in and apply a LOT of pressure. 

-Mist is a GREAT ability to buy time. If you can buy 10 seconds with a TB trying to push people back, you have a much better chance of living. 

-Stand in mist. Its not much healing, but it helps.

-Same as minion Oak, save RoI till when LE is nearby so he gets minions

-Watch for Bite. It only lasts 5 seconds, but your AA will hit harder and they will NOT outrun you. Take advantage when you can

-Time your stuns together. Let him go first. His will last longer. While they're stunned, get into a good nova position. Use yours as they are leaving as it has a slow component. 

-Retreat a LOT. No one can punish over-extending like LE can. Keep pots on you to lure the enemy into a good LE pounce position.

-Juke Pent by canceling Fireball erratically.

-If you think he is going to shield, Deep Freeze right before he does. His cooldown will be quite some time afterward. Doesn't work with level III shield and on.

-Interrupt SoF whenever possible. Oak and his allies rely on this skill a lot to escape and chase people down. 

-If you can time a Frost Nova right, you can catch an Oak off guard and take away a precious second for him to shield. I noticed they all like to wait till the very end. 

-If you are fighting a minion Oak, Frost Nova is often better then Fire Nova. Freezing the minions will give you a brief period to work Oak himself. Doubly better if he has the Horn of Battle as its a PAIN to kill em anyway. Better to just take them out of the picture. Also, ensure you watch for him going for Towers. Freezing them next to a tower helps.

-Learn to hate him for his shield. It's lame and the more people that hate him for it the better.

-It's a long haul with Oak, but after level 4 (or level 2 if he didn't go for BotF) you should be able to whittle him down.

-If he is stacking health then his mana should be more limited. Force him to recast minions by killing them whenever you get the chance. 

-Going to emphasize interrupting SoF. I've biffed a few times not catching a clutch Deep Freeze opportunity to kill SoF during a getaway that got me caught and hurt.

-Oak is terrible at taking out minions early on. Once you get priests, the health upgrade will hurt Oak as his SoF won't be able to take them down nearly as fast.


-My 2nd favorite to 2v2 with. (Be it in a 3v3 and just 2 of us on a side or a 2v2)

-Be patient with your burst. Check his mana (You HAVE to have the UI mod), if he has enough for Pent, wait for it. When he Pents, UNLOAD on who he pented.
At: (Assuming highest Pent and full burst)
lvl 4 - 93 more damage.
lvl 7 - 189 more damage.
lvl 10 - 296 more damage.
lvl 15 - 548 more damage.
lvl 20 - 676 more damage.
Just for reference.

-If Oak is going to SoF to chase a weak DG, hit your wand of speed if you have it, run AHEAD of the DG and Frost Nova. The point of the Frost Nova isn't the stun for 1 second, its the 10% slow for 5 seconds. That combined with SoF, Oak should be able to catch up while you RoI/Fireball.

-Oak is ballsy with his shields, try to make life easier on him by freezing towers if he runs past the point of suicide for you.

-On that note, make sure you pay attention to the situations Oak runs into. I've been Bus'ed by plenty of Oaks, lol.

-You should always have a speed advantage with Oak. SoF/Frost Nova/Pent can make sure one person is catchable if they retreat.

-If you're with a minion Oak and you're both at a grunt wave, wait for him to drop his ward. RoI will reward you both with exp, you with gold, and Oak with Spirits.

-No interrupt. Fireball away!

-Watch for crazy bounces with Chain Lightning. Never assume you're out of range when there are other targets near you.

-Watch for Occ getting close. When he does his buttjump next to you, he hits twice. Following with Chain Lightning can be quite the burst.

-Try to keep distance between yourself and your allied when facing Occ. All his dmg is pretty much AoE so you'll help his cow-ass out by keeping close to each other.

-Remember his port. Either chasing or running, remember the threat exists. 
-Its an EXP race against a good Occ. Make sure you win that race. You're both nukers and if hes nuking better, your team has quite the disadvantage.

-At the start of the game, remember Occ has crazy mana issues. You can nuke FAR more often until he gets helms. Then you will have the HP advantage for a bit in the early game. If he goes straight HP, make sure you cast a LOT more then him to make him pay.

-Watch for the death-balls at lvl 15. That's HIS trump card. Worry about it.


Queen of Thorns:
-Don't stare, she hates that.

-Watch for her to open up. when she goes into open form and moves toward a group of creeps or a tower its a safe bet shes going to AoE. Interrupt that crap.

-Try to keep track of your damage and her level. Assume she took the highest shield ASAP, because its more often then not, true. 

-As soon as you break her shield, Deep Freeze. Swap as SOON as fireball finishes so you can still catch it. You have a snowball's chance in hell of catching the interrupt (I have a few times, but NEVER depend on it) but if she casts it when Deep Freeze is on (and you know Queens, they don't like not having a shield), her next will be 130% longer cooldown. Try to time this when you know you can chase/burst her down after she shields, otherwise you just saved her mana.

-Watch the damn Spike Wave. That damn thing has a HUGE range and the movement speed debuff HURTS.

-Fireball away. She can't stop you.

-Frost Nova is great for her minions. If you miss an Interrupt on Ground Spikes, Frost Nova. Her minions are her damage. They will be frozen the full duration of the Ground Spike debuff so it doesn't help her much.

-Watch the Shamblers. If one is running at you, chances are its going jihad on your ass. (When they are mulched, they AoE. So be careful)

-I haven't gotten a chance to truely 2v2 with a QoT, though I do want to.

-Some ideas I'm looking forward to trying:

-Ground Spikes/+100 Weapon Damage together

-Frost Nova/Spike Wave slows.

-Being with a QoT period allows you to be a little less causious, just be aware how much dmg the shield you currently have has taken

-I wanted to try a QoT who uses Mulch for AoE dmg with me. It's cheap as balls (but the minions aren't, lol)

-Heal Interrupts are epic. Sedna usually expects the heal to go through without a hitch. The heal interrupts are hard, but can be a sick move.

-More often then not, it's better to treat heal like Shield with QoT. If you miss Deep Freeze, the duration is over before her next heal casts. If you cast it before she heals and she does, shes got quite the wait ahead of her.

-BUT! If Sedna is running and you're chasing, have Deep Freeze ready and your mouse over her. The SECOND she stops, Deep Freeze. Not only did you interrupt heal, but she stopped to do it so you could catch up.

-When a Sedna is barreling at you, what is she gunna do? Pounce! This is an easy version of interrupting spit. Wait till shes right on you and Deep Freeze her. I stopped 8 in a row at the start of a game. Saved me a HELL of a lot of damage AND dragged Sedna further from safety as it is a melee range ability.

-Early priests are great against Sedna too. She sucks against grunts. 

-Silence at the wrong time hurts. Careful if you noticed her use it once.

-At the start of the game, Sedna is cake. Just attrition her and you will burn her mana and she will have to leave.

-At the end of a long game (15+), Do not shatter Sedna. The -75% Regen is a HUGE boon to you as her Regen will be nut-so.

-I kinda just read over Hedge saying this like 3 times, lol. Once Sedna gets lvl 3 heal, it dispells Deep Freeze before it can hurt her cooldowns.
I liked how he worded it so:

"since you'll force her to either heal no one for 5 seconds, heal 1 other person once then be on cooldown for the rest of the battle or heal herself and wait for 7 seconds to heal someone else"



Unclean Beast: 
-Obviously, Unclean is going to be the biggest pain when it comes to the life of a Torch Bearer. I take GREAT pleasure in working an Unclean Beast. 

-The most important thing to remember is never Fireball an Unclean who's spit you haven't seen recently used. 300 dmg compared to 500 damage isn't a good trade. 

-Hang back and pelt with Rain of Ice when grunt waves arrive and when you feel you can (IE: hes about to pull back a few yards), target Fireball. 

-Deep Freeze is amazing for stopping Spit. If you don't trust your judgment for interrupting it, hit him with it right before he spits so his next is a much longer cooldown. 

-Later in the game, he will feel ballsy enough to chase you into towers so do not count on them for defense. 

-Time Frost Nova so it his him RIGHT before he is within Grasp Range and back off. 

-UB has the highest armor (Which is stupid) so your auto attack will be the least effective on him. That's good to know.

-When there is an UB in the game, avoid over extending. More-so then anyone else (tied with Erebus though)-Be careful of UBs luring you with low health, just to sigil after he pulls you far enough from safety. This is most dangerous with this asshole.

-Time you're stuns. Remember, his goes first cause yours has a slow. 

-As with Erebus, look to make your opponent over-extend.

-Use your interrupts. You don't have priests, you will need to prevent as much dmg as possible.

-Remember the bastard has ooze and will kill all those juicy RoI/BotS targets before RoI can land

-That's all I got for him for now. lol. I hate UB.

-Rain of Ice is devastating to Rook. He AND his towers taking damage is a no good situation for him. Try to time them with Grunt waves for even more efficiency.

-Frost Nova is your biggest asset against a Tower Rook. If you get assistance, before the Rook notices, run slightly behind him and Frost Nova to clear the way for your ally.

-Every time Rook tries to forward his line, fireball his face.-If he is hiding back in his towers, use fireball to take out old ones.

-Deep Freeze can work to great effect if you hit Rook right before his tower rises. You can DRASTICALLY slow how quick he can raise his farm.

-Rook has a lot of hitpoints, but his armor is low. Use your beefy Auto attack to chip away whenever you get a chance. This is very effective at the start of the game. Also very useful with Frost Nova.

-Time your fireballs with your grunt waves, you can move much further forward while they act as fodder. Towers seem to target grunts before Demigods, so take advantage when you can. 

-Deep Freeze Hammer slam, duh.

-Try to predict Boulder Rolls, it can be an epic interrupt if you do it at the right time. Deep Freeze can KILL the cooldown for boulder Roll, so if you know hes going to use it, (IE: Hes been using it to interrupt your Fireball) its always a good idea. 


-Always have a pot. Always. You're more then likely going to take the brunt of snipes. 

-Don't let yourself stay out with low health too long. 

-Priests early will help more with Reg (and UB) then anyone else. 

-Let grunts take mines. If he takes the time to mine up a flag. Just be patient and wait for the next grunt wave.

-Observation Wards Observation Wards Observation Wards Observation Wards Observation Wards.

-Ok, this has netted me a kill when I really needed it plenty of times. Whenever you are fighting Reg and he retreats into the Fog of war. 9 times out of 10 he is going to snipe you. If he is low on health, take a shot in the dark by running forward and casting a max range RoI. You'll be surprised (and so will he) how many times this works.

-Other then the snipes, Reg is meat for you. He can't stop Fireball in any way and has no other ways to mitigate damage without General or Priest support.

-Watch for the Mines-at-the-feet when casting FB. Cancel FB and move back when you see him tossin'.

-If you get caught with MotB in an intense fight, back off to your tower. Changing forms will trigger it and ensure it doesn't hit you at a very bad time.

-It's important to out-level Reg. If he is able to beat you to 4 or 7 and is a snipe spec (a good snipe spec), it WILL hurt. Bad.

-Its a tough road to hoe, but you're just the joe to hoe it.

-If Reg is on the ball, you will be able to apply plenty of pressure. You're goal is to have them afraid of the sudden dmg. 

-If you're fighting together, you need a scorched earth game. Let him retreat first to get mines setup, then retreat over them. Never try to out muscle anyone.

-Carry Universal Gadgets. You will need them. 

-Call for snipes when you need them. Prefferably about 7 seconds after a Fireball so that you can FB/RoI and have snipe land in between

-You're the only one who can interrupt. Remember that. You will need to be good.

-Early priests helps a LOT! Yo

-Take advantage of shop trips. You should be able to have them retreat enough to get some good tower dmg in.

Demon Assassin:
-MOST IMPORTANT!: Do Not run far from DA when he has backup. ALWAYS STAY IN RANGE TO DEEP FREEZE! Watch for him standing on one leg (or whatever it is he does), and as soon as he does, Deep Freeze and run. I CAN'T stress this enough. The swap can and WILL fuck you if you aren't paying attention. 

-Careful with Fireball. If your in range to fireball, he is in range to Spine you. His casts caster too, the bastard. It does more damage at the start, so getting the fireball off and letting him spine you doesn't help. 

-Always remember he can warp RIGHT to you. ALSO note that he can warp to grunts and the like to get away.

-DA sucks against grunts. Early priests help a lot against a DA. You'll always have priests to heal you if you're fighting over a lane as he wont be able to kill them. You will though. 

-Remember the Combo is: Swap, Warp, Spine. Just remember that. It hurts. If you miss the Deep Freeze, your in for a world of hurt.

-DA is mana Dependent, unless he goes for passives. If hes not a passive DA, you'll tear him to shreds with his low health. If hes passive, you don't have much to worry about. 

-If hes actually using Warp Area, RoI about a second after he started it. By the time he finishes, the RoI will land.

-An Absolute Blast of a Partner-With Warp/Spine/FB/RoI, you have quite a burst to work with. With swap in the mix, it's hard to escape from being bursted even more.

-Very squishy. You will need to stack health asap. You can't escape like he can.

-Another partner it pays a LOT to have a UG with. He can and will get himself into bad situations. Count on it.

-Remember the crazy range of swap. Don't start retreating when he JUST gets in range

-The rest is just reacting. The goal is a setup for a good gank. No muscle here. 

The rest is just experience. You obviously can't describe everything about how you play.
Also, all tips are just general and should be taken with a grain of salt. Every encounter is different and every opponent, even same Demigods, play in different ways.



Replays coming soon...


Update 5/2/10:

Cleaned up OP.

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January 3, 2010 2:33:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,


1. From dance against a Sedna and you can push her out of a lane with your +60 Weapon Damage at level 1 since she has no counter-kiting abilities, unlike all tier 1 demigods. (another thing that will keep her a bit behind Oak/UB/Ereb)

It's +100 weapon damage at lvl 1.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

2. Starting with level 5 will not be able to kite her because of healing wind. You can rain of ice my monk but it'll take 2 full RoI III at least to kill it because unlike most Sedna I micro my monks. I'm not really joking here. Starting with Level 5 I pretty much ignore Regulus/Queen/TB and just there and farm and let them hit me. I have to heal occasionally, sure, maybe only every 30 seconds or so. But I'm not using my mana anywhere else so I'm using mana veryyyyy slowllyyyy and regaining it at roughly the same rate. Plus, typically around this time I need to go back to base to get Currency so I really don't give a fuck if you make me use mana.

The only Sednas I've ever had issues with are fed Sednas. The regen doesnt hurt too much. At lvl 5 I do 945 dmg every 15 seconds. She can't regen that fast. It's a mana war, not a BURST HER DOWN HURRY! fight. You need to heal quite a lot, considering that TB AA does over 200 until you get armor.
Once you are level 5, Deep Freeze takes care of pounce which gives Sedna VERY little damage.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

3. Deep Freeze does not work on Sedna. Heal III cures DF before the cooldown proc. Early game (1-6), assuming you put only 1 point in DF is not enough to really screw up a  Sedna because Healing Wind rapes face early game since the amount of HP HW gains is typically more than the amount she is healing for and it's 0 mana.

8 seconds is a long time. The passive healing is a pain, but that's because most TBs let off pressure WAY too fast.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

However, in chaotic 3v3 or 2v2, THEN DF the Sedna since you'll force her to either heal no one for 5 seconds, heal 1 other person once then be on cooldown for the rest of the battle or heal herself and wait for 7 seconds to heal someone else


Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

4. it is my opinion TB is always stronger when units hit the table. I think this is most people opinion.  Going early priest is probably a better idea as TB than most people. If they don't get priests the added DPS priests give help TB push. If they get priests to match you you just RoI them and then your priests push anyway.

I love getting priests. Makes my life a LOT easier
Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

That said, any halfway decent Sedna is getting Nature's Reckoning and Counter Healing. CH may not extend far enough to get all the priests so you might get a few heals. NR isn't great at killing priests, but with CH it takes 3 hits to completely wipe the wave. Since NR has a 15% chance of proc, and a Level 8 Sed with standard gear has an attack time of 1.36, on "average" it will take a Sedna roughly 25 seconds to clear a wave of priests assuming they stay in a place she can't attack and doesn't pull them out (for some reason. Really no reason for that). 25 seconds is less than the respawn time, so they won't ever pile up.

25 seconds is an eternity. I'm not looking for them to pile up. I'm looking for exactly that. Spending 25 seconds on grunts.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

Of course she'll be takiing roughly 30 damage / shot  / 1 shot / 2 seconds * 2 priests * 25 seconds == 900 damage. Which she will probably regen.

I don't get them for the damage, I get them for Tower Cover and heals. Sedna takes forever to kill a wave, as you said yourself.
Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

Of course you can still be kiting her and blah blah. Fact of the matter is just that you won't be able to push a Sed out of a lane with just Priests.

Can and have. Plenty of times. I'll see if I can find a replay tonight.

On that note, I love discussing the build, but with an attitude, IE: Starting with NO, I lose intrest. So maybe I just took it wrong, but I tend not to reply to hostile posts. I just ignored the 'no', but let me know if I was wrong

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January 3, 2010 2:40:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,
-Oak is terrible at taking out
minions. Once you get priests, the health upgrade will hurt Oak as his
SoF won't be able to take them down nearly as fast.
Also false. If you spent the 600 gold on +10% hp then he'll still be able to kill the archers at level 5 with one SoF and still be able to clear all minos at level 10. I mean, it's only going to be a slight incrase for him, but still. There is no need to give the enemy more mana and HP.
When I play Oak I love to hear the sound that my enemy purchased priests

I might of been a little ahead of myself with that one. The goal of the HP buff is so he cant one hit everything for the HPs. But yeah, that ends at lvl 10. Terrible was a pretty strong word.

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January 3, 2010 3:14:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


"The only Sednas I've ever had issues with are fed Sednas. The regen doesnt hurt too much. At lvl 5 I do 945 dmg every 15 seconds. She can't regen that fast. It's a mana war, not a BURST HER DOWN HURRY! fight. You need to heal quite a lot, considering that TB AA does over 200 until you get armor.
Once you are level 5, Deep Freeze takes care of pounce which gives Sedna VERY little damage."

At level 5 38 hps on top of monks which are healing 15% of my max hp which will typically be around 3k every 8 seconds~ 450.

In 16 seconds my regen is 1508 damage. I don't think your 15 seconds includes AA which is roughly 130 (Level 5 DPS is 129, but you have form dancing, but then I also have armor and the Weapon-Damage+ buff isn't always active either) which adds 2080 damage to me. Plus, it really is wrong to assume the weapon damage buff is always active. It takes 2 seconds to change forms and so on.

So, all in all you're doing roughly 2080 + 945 damage - 1508 = 1517 damage over 16 seconds, making a large number of assumptions. Then what happens is I will heal then start backing up to my tower (making sure there is no creep wave coming up that you can farm or you recently blew your BotS) you will walk forward to contest the flag, I turn around the second it turns yellow. I will push you off the flag (without pouncing because pouncing is lame). Then I will-recap the flag, and I will pocket that free ~125 expierence. I'll do this to you twice by the time we are level 5, so typically I'm already going to have a slight level advantage over you in that I'm hiting levels abougt 30 seconds before you are.

If I am healing while you are kiting me I'm timing it with the mana flag (heal immediately after you cap it, or heal immediatly before it drops if it will oom yourself)

If you stop trying to cap the flag, then I'll just farm by my tower instead.



25 seconds is an eternity. I'm not looking for them to pile up. I'm looking for exactly that. Spending 25 seconds on grunts."

I typically still pull creeps/monks though. If you pull them you can directly AA attack them. It takes 6 seconds to kill 2 priests with just AA. Plus, again. I'm ignorign you as you hit me with AA. I really am. I really... just don't care that you're hitting me with it. I've been laned against plenty of good Ice TBs. Until Level 5 you can out-kite me pretty easily. You'll probably push me out of a lane Level 1 just from kiting. But when you turn a flag to Yellow I turn right around, healing as neccassary. Again, I'll try to be timing this to deny you creeps to feed off of mana with BotS but that may not always happen.

Though you do get two pots so it is possible that you are more difficult to push off of a lane than other TB's.

Also? What do you do first 15 seconds? Do you fight for the XP flag or not? I don't, I barrell straignt to the HP flag and I also go around the side so I get +4 xp. If you are sharing the XP flag with one other person then you're only getting 50 xp. This means you're going to be aleady disadvantaged from and expierence perspective. You'll almost get it back if the XP flag remains uncontested for 2 full creep waves but most of the time people are exchanging the Mana and XP flags.

I don't remember how long the +weapon damage lasts from form dancing. It helps to push but it tends to disappear around the time I turn around to contest a flag, I have found.

Also, I'm only pouncing if you are about to fireball me, I'm not doing it otherwise. I'm saving my mana for heal.

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January 3, 2010 4:35:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just woke up from a nap during my lunch at work and that made my head hurt, lol.

I'll tell ya, theory crafting is just that. Theory crafting.

And don't forget my disclaimers

Some scattered notes while I wake up:

-I attack priests. A lot.
-I don't fireball if it means putting myself at risk for say...a pounce.
-The +100 dmg is +75 from Frost Form buff and +25 from the BotS
-Im tired.
-It's real easy to get mana with BotS. Pre lvl 8 or so, Autoattack can fill the bar rather quick. In a pinch, I can get enough for a RoI, blah blah. Now you got me doing it dammit.

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January 3, 2010 11:44:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

-I attack priests. A lot.

I micro my priests. A lot

Though RoI will still kill them occasionally.


I would hope you wouldn't fireball while standing in melee range but that is really the only time I'm going to Pounce before level 9 or so (unless you're using Frost Nova). I use it only to push hard for a flag, or as an interrupt.


I know you have BotS. You do hit for over 200 and I do a BotS ice build so I know how stupidly easy it is to push a General out of a lane level 1/2.


I don't think I ever said I'd oom you with my tactics... I know I lose the mana war. But I tend to be winning Warscore and also XP with my tricks. Plus around level 5/6 I have to get Currency anyway so I'll typically burn mana then. If you hang around and farm (because you aren't buying Currency) you'll have a one-level+ advantage on me but you'll be slightly underequipped. So I'll take that flag right back

Edit: sorry if I sound arrogant or anything. From what I've seen, roughly 25% of people who play Sedna actually know how to use the bitch. Half of them do it well. A lot of the stuff you pointed out can and WILL work against the vast majority of Sedna players. I'm just saying how I deal with an Ice TB and it works pretty well. Yeah, it's really rough first few levels. But once Healing Wind hits... Which is why I'm letting you take that flag to Yellow as much as I possibly can. You get 6xp for making a flag yellow. I get 100 xp + 2 * my current level + 6 for recapturing it. It's 2/3rds of a WS1 creepwave of minotaurs.

From what I've seen and read about you you seem to be a good player. We have some differening opinions on playstyle and balance but you're a decent enough guy.

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January 4, 2010 9:46:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You're definantly right, I havnt played a Really Good Sedna in quite a while. From my experiance, people feel they are invincable with heal.

And it's hard to tell someone's tone over the interwebs. I love me some constructive critisism.

We should play a game at some point. I got the next 3 days off!

Sorry bout last night. Already did 4 games (I think) and the womanfriend just got home when you got on Vent.

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January 6, 2010 12:38:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I got lookin through replays again and I found this fun Prison game.


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January 22, 2010 5:49:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Updated with replays of the current version.

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January 23, 2010 11:31:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ,

Queen of Thorns:
-Don't stare, she hates that.

What if she says it is ok?

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January 23, 2010 11:36:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Then it's probably too late.

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January 23, 2010 11:38:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Teseer,
Then it's probably too late.
Really how?

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January 23, 2010 4:46:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dunno where I was going with that to be honest.

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January 23, 2010 4:56:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

lmfao   Synn 1; Tesser 0.....

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January 23, 2010 5:07:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Doh. Don't post this replay.

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January 23, 2010 5:31:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

But I wanna!

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January 23, 2010 5:35:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Speaking of which, I wanna see you play QoT in some replays.

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January 23, 2010 5:37:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That would be nice synn, I've wanted to see a good QoT player.

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January 23, 2010 5:40:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I got some but they are  from epachi 2

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January 23, 2010 5:46:01 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You were the one telling me to go play games, your turn!

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January 23, 2010 5:52:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Teseer,
You were the one telling me to go play games, your turn!
I will as soon as I find a game where half way in I'm not d/c. The question is do ya want a pro game or one where I am simply messing around...which are most my games lately....

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January 23, 2010 6:00:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just wanna see QoT as the MVP

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January 23, 2010 6:03:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


try to enjoy those

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January 23, 2010 6:08:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Woo! I cant wait to get home. Got my Waterfall packed and ready!

Edit: Aww, they're all 1.19

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January 23, 2010 6:12:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That's just mean, linking to old replays.

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January 23, 2010 6:12:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

these were my most fun games, so you didn't create a back up file of 1.19 demigod to veiw the replays?

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