On Unclean Beast.

By lifekatana on September 30, 2009 12:09:33 PM from

p.s nerf ub, he's like rook except his main dmg skill requires 0 skill to use and he has a rocket booster up his ass ^^

-shakenbaken

This imho is true. Its not that spit is so damn OP or he has too much speed or whatever. Yes spit is good, especially against squishies, but its also easily countered. Its just general speed/dmg/health/stun. And because bestial wrath is useless its very possible to get practuically every good skill by level 10(cept for aclimation). In battle he's around as strong as full health hammer Rook AND has speed. This means that (hybrid, with leveled ooze at 10) UB can stand up against an demigod who's whole build is made around melee sacrificing speed, while still having enough speed to beat a kiting speedreg. There are a few builds that can win against this(minions erebus, hybrid oak, superhealsedna, tower Rook), but they all sacrifice something; mobility, health, mana, speed whatever. Ub does not have to do that. Sure he can skip BoF and get anklet or dagger and speed items to pester TB/Reg even more, but his normal build can do pretty much everything you could ask for. In addition it takes very little skill to play him.

This is does not mean that UB is way OP and noone can beat him it means that half of the current selection can't stand up to him in a balanced fight. And those who can are either gimped in other compartments in the game(ie Rook) or slightly OP themselves(erebus). And no I dint get beat for the tenth time in a row by UB, I know my game thank you very much.

Oh yeah and his stun should cause immunity like every other demigod in the game.

TL;DR, UB can healthstack like theres no tomorrow without sacrificing a great part of speed/mana/damage. He has the best damage, very good speed, and because the item system is fucked up, he can also healthstack. SEE comments pretty much.

/rant

+18 Karma | 27 Replies

The thing is: a fast damage-dealer like UB should never be able to stack as much health as it is possible now. If it had less health then it would be more fair.

I guess that in the early phases of the game the developers intended that you can have only 1 of each item class (armor, helm, etc.). Why else would there be this classification? Somehow this mechanism got scrapped and this lead to players massing the most useful stat in the game: health. That also leads to the extremely high heals from the %-based priests.

quoting post

Oh yeah and his stun should cause immunity like every other demigod in the game.

this is the only usefull thing that has been asked for.

edit: i totally disagree with cosmoe on this thing. ub is absolutly fine as it is!

The problem imo (if you can call it a problem) is how easy it is to stack high HP items. It applies to other DG's but I think to UB the most as he requires the least mana (with ooze being mana free) and so he can afford to stack the most HP items with the little penatly.

Being level 5 and having 4-5k hp is pretty weird.

Still, its not certain enough that Stardock/GPG can start "fixing" it and is a really subjective topic.

I do agree UB stun should definately have stun immunity though.

So you're in agreeal with me then... Healthstack causes UB to cover up his weakness while still keeping his strenghts.

Because all the demigods are balanced...

I hear this a lot, but this has is just false; Demigod is balanced very very good, but it's certainly not perfect. The stats say so, but more importantly good players will in a serious match only or mostly take a combination of sedna/oak/erebus/ub. Sometimes there is a reg(some swear by the little angel others find him too weak) thrown in, or a tb whatever. But the bulk of team consists of these 4 demigods. Also note that I didn't say UB is OP, as if he was uncounterable. I said he should be OR better yet health items nerfed. Currently mostly due to bad item balance he and others(most notably erebus) with him are just better than Rook/TB/Qot/(regulus). Not because spit is OP or another of his skills but because he can use the item imbalance to health to his advantage. This makes him a rook with a rocket booster up his ass.

Of course the wekaer demigods can be buffed too, but I don't think thats the (only) way to go.

UB is OP

Why? Because he is the only decent Assassin

Once noobs learn the power of minions and preists all the Generals apart from QoT become super strong

But seriously look around the forum if you want info on UB because I think everyone is damn fed up of this

I look around on the forums. I see some whiny noob posts on spit being OP.

I'm not a noob and I understand that Oak/Erebus/Sedna can go toe to toe with him most of the time. That does not mean he's not way too good. Also, if you even slightly read around yourself you would have known I am a prominent user of minion builds.

gtfo with your elitist attitude, instead of actually reading the topic and comment accordingly you ramble some predefined notion of UB's perfect balance.

TBH i do not think UB is overpowered at all, but i use Oak, but the affect of health stacking is ridiculous. i played a game against UB and y the end he had 8000hp with vitality upping him to 12000 in battle. i think they should fix these items instead of the DG.

Cheeseman, read the fucking topic. I say UB is OP because a combination of wrong item balance and bad skill choices allow him to do that. Also stun immunity.

Quoting lifekatana,

reply 6

Because all the demigods are balanced...

I hear this a lot, but this has is just false; Demigod is balanced very very good, but it's certainly not perfect. The stats say so, but more importantly good players will in a serious match only or mostly take a combination of sedna/oak/erebus/ub. Sometimes there is a reg(some swear by the little angel others find him too weak) thrown in, or a tb whatever. But the bulk of team consists of these 4 demigods. Also note that I didn't say UB is OP, as if he was uncounterable. I said he should be OR better yet health items nerfed. Currently mostly due to bad item balance he and others(most notably erebus) with him are just better than Rook/TB/Qot/(regulus). Not because spit is OP or another of his skills but because he can use the item imbalance to health to his advantage. This makes him a rook with a rocket booster up his ass.

Of course the wekaer demigods can be buffed too, but I don't think thats the (only) way to go.

i hear this alot, but this has is just false; demigod is balanced very very good,

but this has is just false; demigod is balanced very very good

this has is just false, demigod is balanced very very good.

did you see what you did? DO YOU SEE IT!!??!

no one is forcing you to type quickly so fix this shit.

UB has:
highest move speed in the game
2nd highest base stats
a ranged ability which does more dmg at lvl 10 than other demigods lvl 15 abilities
an ability to reduce attack speed and deal even more dps to all surrounding enemies
best dmg reduction in the game at lvl 15+
ability to chain stun with multiple UB players

you don't need to buy speed items.
you don't need to buy armor after lvl 15.

you are free to stack maximum hp whilst STILL being able to chase and dps better than any other demigod, unless they sacrafice hp items to gain these abilities. by sacraficing hp items they will always lose in a 1 on 1 situation. if you always win in a 1 on 1 situation, this makes you worth more than a single player in a team battle, making a team imbalanced.

???

how can ppl say he is balanced

Quoting lifekatana,

reply 8

gtfo with your elitist attitude, instead of actually reading the topic and comment accordingly you ramble some predefined notion of UB's perfect balance.

Lol?

You checked my states? I aint no elitist

Im just fed up of people moaning about UB. Valid point or not

Sure he is OP but you cant have perfect balance. Worry about other things

I guess it just doesnt bother me 2bh

[quote who="[ShakeNBake]" reply="12" id="2392017"]UB has:
highest move speed in the game
2nd highest base stats
a ranged ability which does more dmg at lvl 10 than other demigods lvl 15 abilities
an ability to reduce attack speed and deal even more dps to all surrounding enemies
best dmg reduction in the game at lvl 15+
ability to chain stun with multiple UB players

you don't need to buy speed items.
you don't need to buy armor after lvl 15.

you are free to stack maximum hp whilst STILL being able to chase and dps better than any other demigod, unless they sacrafice hp items to gain these abilities. by sacraficing hp items they will always lose in a 1 on 1 situation. if you always win in a 1 on 1 situation, this makes you worth more than a single player in a team battle, making a team imbalanced.

???

how can ppl say he is balanced
[/quote]

ere > ub in 1v1

but srsly why does ub have acclimation? i really dont understand that. they need to make that skill do something else. ub needs to not be able to chain stun and his stun is long as hell. i think it’ll be better if it was 2 seconds at high lvls thus forcing people to get mana items with him.

i was under the impression that spit + ooze UB was one of the only builds capabale of taking down an erebus...

Depends, late game certainly, ooze plus autoattack will you get you trhough pretty easily. But early/mid game a hybrid or minion heavy erebus can beat an UB, using minions +bite for dps and mist to nullify spit. Indeed minions will rape UB early, but once he picks up some healtth and got ooze 3 or 4 he can walk through the minions damaging them while they do minimal damage(they walk slower, and have some attack problems).

But again, erebus is OP too.

Beast is stong but not over powered... The problem is that people would rather bitch than try new things to counter him. The reason you end up facing an invincible beast is because you feed him kills all game, he out gears you. Please show me a replay where this isn't the case and I'll shut my mouth.

1v1 no doubt a beast can take on most other demis 1v1 and not be the one running without stragety...

Most of my flame has been removed, I understand asking someone to come up with a novel idea is pushing the limits.

Health stacking has nothing to do with UB. It's a general problem. Also pure Ooze UB is inferior to a hybrid in almost every case.

There is nothing wrong with Beast...

learn how to deal with him... seriously.... I can understand whining about erebus but Unclean beast? common guys.

I have no problems playing against beast ... But i agree to the point that a fast + heavy ooze build can be very very annoying (thats how i play beast) but even this is not unbeatable. Common guy its not all about 1on1 and killing dgs, for a strategic game play there r better dgs around espcially Oak and Erobus.

Acclimation is OP late game. Once a health stacked ooze beast gets acclimation, it's freakin' impossible to drop him since just about all endgame spells trigger it, and his auto attack > yours thanks to ooze. If he's packin' sigils, I advise you just run away.

And why would you use spit vs Erebus? He'll just mist. A good Erebus will just flee the battle anyway with bat swarm if things don't go in his favor.

In multi person combat though, forcing a mist isn't necessarily unworth it. You'll still do a bit of damage (contact damage at least) and he'll 'self stun' by misting. If I had a choice to spit on someone else, I generally would, but it isn't always as easy as 'He will just mist away the damage'.

I suppose if you focus fire an ereb, he will mist, then you can hit him with a spit when he un-mists and it's on cooldown.

Consider 2v1, you spit on him. Does he mist and back for 2 seconds, giving your team room to surround him? What if he only has mana to bat swarm OR mist? Most 3v3 games are a combination of 2v2, 1v1, and 2v1 scenarios (Depending on lane split) so don't discount how to play when up a man.. or down one. (If you are in a losing battle, the spit sticks because he can't persue and mist at the same time).

Again, there is some impression that when you ask for a nerf for UB you got bashed a bit too much by one.

Again, it's not that he can't be beated but the demigods who can are either OP/very strong themselves(erebus/sedna) or have some very big downsides(towerrook-> mobility, speed.).

Again, and this is the biggest thing imho. An UB can beat a full health Hammer Rook, even items, even level. This is wrong, a hammer rook is so strong because he's slow and makes an easy target, UB is even naturally faster than most of the current selection. How the fuck is this balanced? Oh yeah, everyone can play UB, it takes very little skill to play right, its just spit early game, then rightclick with ooze on lategame.

P.S. It would be cool spit actually costed mana so that choosing either ooze or spit is actually a cchoice instead of everyone going hybrid.

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