New overlays and premades – TAKE THAT YOU PREMADE JERKS!

A pacov rant

By pacov on September 29, 2009 10:52:49 PM from

This has been talked about in other places, but I wanted to add my two cents as it’s an issue that will continue to impact the community for some time. If you have the time to read this and an open mind, please humor me by reading this post.

1^st – we're getting some new overlay features sometime in the next week or so (https://forums.demigodthegame.com/365437). If things work as advertised, we’ll see some additional information in game including games started/completed, won/lost, and familiarity with other players. Brad’s been pretty clear that indentifying players that have played together before is important to him (Frogboy: “I just got stomped by one too many premades”) and I’d wager, his opinion is pretty similar to new players and MANY puggers.

There’s a phrase I keep hearing over and over and it’s a simple one: premades are fine IF. IF they put PREMADE in their title, IF they only play other premades, IF they will break up their premade to make a more balanced game. Here are some loose definitions of premade and pug so we are all a little closer to being on the same page:

Premade – a team that is made in advance. Some people go to extremes and call it a premade if you’ve simply played a few games with a set group of people. Others only consider a premade a team that typically plays together. Some would even call you a premade if you and 1 buddy play a 4v4 on the same team. It's a term that is used in Demigod because apparently a special word is needed to describe a team in a team based game. If you play with the same group of people, you are not a team, you are a premade.

PUG – Individuals who play pick up games or games where they don’t have a set team. There are degrees with this as well. Some would indicate you are NOT a pugger if you play several games with an individual on the same team. Most consider you a Pugger AS LONG AS you are not in a premade.

The definitions don't really matter much in the end, as premades are generalized and then put in the box of premades are fine IF. We don't hear too much along the lines of pugger's are fine IF. They are just fine and need someone to make sure they aren't abused by premades. And if they get a chance to pass some abuse onto premades, then well... they had it coming for all the PUG stomps (I'm starting the puggers are fine IF list tonight btw).

The biggest complaint people seem to have about premades are PUG stomps. The definition varies on PUG stomps as well. Some would call it a PUG stomp if the teams were even slightly imbalanced. In the extreme (what almost always occurs) they consider any premade game against Pugs imbalanced (unless they win). The other extreme of PUG STOMPS is if the premade team maliciously fights only new players to the game. PUG stomps are pretty much a negative term regardless of your meaning, which makes it is easier to vilify premades if they do anything other than premade vs premade games (premades are fine IF).

To paint a clear picture of how puggers intentionally grief premade teams (because its justified, of course, because premades are fine IF BLANK. Go against their rules and it's ok for them to act like a jerk), see the following list.

Exciting ways to grief premades

· Join their game. Wait until its full. In chat, write, fing premade and leave (see picks of dielan and chemdude8 doing their version of this tonight 9/29/2009 - keeping the world safe for new players)

· If you start losing a game or even die once, ask "premade?" in chat (as in the only possibility YOU could have been killed was if you were up against a premade).

· Join a lobby that's full. Ask the premade to rebalance the game because you just showed up.

· Accuse every premade team you know of PUG stomping. Don't look into it at all as there is no need. (http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=96864 - see the comments for another example of someone doing the same thing)

· You've been victimized by every premade that ever existed - make sure they know it. FIND A WAY!

And last, for those of you not in a premade, I doubt you understand this all that well, so I'll explain the other side of things that you apparently don't see or don't care to see. It's the part that you don't get that enables you to act like a complete jerk and try to ruin other people's experience.

People in a premade play together because they like playing together. You can often have more competitive games by using voice chat (a feature that obviously should be in the game IMO) and by playing together often with the same group of people. I am a great individual player, but am substantially better by playing with people I know because I can count on a shield or a heal or a stun at the right time. Good players will do that for you sometimes. A good premade will do that for you most of the time. It's not cheating. Its playing the game the way it's actually MEANT to played (a team playing a team game). My premade has over 10 people in it. We all play together from time to time. I've played with some over 100 games and some 3-5 games. I try to play a little every night when I can.

I accept challenges from other premades and search when out of game for premades to play against. When there is not a premade available, I do not wait around 30 minutes for a game. I host a game or someone in my premade hosts a game. I have hosted premade specific games and if no one joins after 5 minutes, host a game that is less descriptive so more people might join. You can call that deceitful, but I call it trying to get a game going because I enjoy playing demigod.

Why don't you try hosting a 5v5 premade only lobby and let me know how long it takes to fill up for you? Just wait it out. What's that? 10 minutes have gone by and your lobby is completely empty? Why not try a 4v4 premade and tell one of your buds to take a hike? Oh, you tried that too and your lobby is still empty? You'd rather just get a game going instead of playing the exciting lobby game? Well, sorry, you're a jerk. You should wait it out. Especially if you want to play with your friends. That's only ok if you don't play with your friends all of the time.

Anyway, I also often break off my from my premade just to do PUG only games and even then I often have people jump in and accuse whoever joined my team of being a premade. Which often causes whoever is in my lobby to leave.

So, that's all I have to say about this for a whole 5 minutes. You may have a problem with premades but I think you should take a break from busting their chops. Now. Consider going after people that actually deserve grief. Belier and Apika are still around exploiting the shite out of the sytem. Our ladder rank #1 guy still playing in Pantheon games against AI only. And I still play on a team and Pug from time to time. Get your priorites right at least.

And now for a few of the people who have righted wrongs today by busting up games I've been in that were not labeled to their specifications, thereby justifying their poor behavior FTW!

Waiting for about 4 minutes after Dielan joined, called premade when the lobby was full and immediately quit.

We had a game up, people joined, chemdude joined, he did his premade cheer and successfully emptied our full lobby. So, we got to wait an additional 10 minutes for it to fill back up.

+161 Karma | 95 Replies

I'm guessing, that the "waiting for 10 minutes" phenomenon occurs because they are actively looking at each player's stats on the website, as well as their list of games.

If you start losing a game or even die once, ask "premade?" in chat (as in the only possibility YOU could have been killed was if you were up against a premade).

I'll admit I had done this once out of sheer frustration of how good the other team has coordinated. It was a 2v2 on Cataract. However, I accepted the defeat and I tried very hard to turn things around with my PUG team mate with mediocre success.

The best solution, as Frogboy has mentioned will be to implement team matchmaking itself.

Quoting SyDaemon,

reply 2

I'm guessing, that the "waiting for 10 minutes" phenomenon occurs because they are actively looking at each player's stats on the website, as well as their list of games.

If you start losing a game or even die once, ask "premade?" in chat (as in the only possibility YOU could have been killed was if you were up against a premade).
I'll admit I had done this once out of sheer frustration of how good the other team has coordinated. It was a 2v2 on Cataract. However, I accepted the defeat and I tried very hard to turn things around with my PUG team mate with mediocre success.

The best solution, as Frogboy has mentioned will be to implement team matchmaking itself.

The 'premade?' thing happens to me all the time -.- Even when I am pugging (and I do pug about 20% of my games, and my first 150 games since Epoch 2 were all pugging, and even most of my 'premade' games only have one other person that I play with alot (disclaimer: this is not true for the last week or so, since I've been playing with KALELsmX as my third man alot, but still).

Sadly, good team coordination does not always mean premade and it annoys me when people accuse me of that when I'm VERY honest about it.

Indeed. My simple request is a little more civility from those that are dedicated to PUGs. It shouldn't be a hell of a lot to ask that you don't jump into games with the intent of breaking up a lobby and the leaving. I doubt they'd appreciate similar treatment.

And I should have worded that differently regarding waiting for 10 minutes. We had a game up, people joined, chemdude joined, he did his premade cheer and successfully emptied our full lobby. So, we got to wait an additional 10 minutes for it to fill back up.

Its simply rude and uncalled for. And behavior like this is more becoming more and more common even amongst Pug's that have been around for awhile.

I agree that team matchmaking would be great, but realistically speaking, do you see that coming anytime soon? Me neither. So we get overlays that make it easier to pick out premades (fine with me). But this does little to help people who play as a team. Instead, it further empowers players who currently join premade's lobbies to grief them because we don't write the word PREMADE in a lobby.

I guess I belong in the premades-are-fine-if camp

I totally understand you're upset that you have a hard time playing with your friends. But, from the eyes of an exceptionally average PUGer, playing against a premade is pretty much a losing proposition. This game is (sadly) not well equiped to facilitate teamwork amongst random lobby folk (no voicechat? really? Is this 2001 or something?) and, without knowing the guys on your team, you have no idea how big a feeder or ragequitter your teammates may be. In a game where a single teammate can cause your team to lose regardless of your personal skill that's a huge hurdle. "Hiding" the fact that you're a premade only makes things look worse as it may give the impression you're trying to trick people for an easy victory (this happens, even if *you* don't do it). You yourself go so far as to enumerate the advantages a premade has over PUGs and there's no way to effectively eliminate that advantage. Bearing that in mind and assuming an equal level of skill across both teams, how is a PUG supposed to be competitive. I can easily see how getting surprised by that would cause negative thoughts to arise.

I'm certainly not opposed to losing a game (which my record clearly indicates ) as long as it's fun but I'd like to know up front what I'm dealing with. I think that's only fair given the time investment involved in playing a game out.

What I don't understand is why:

1) Premades can't effectively schedule games with one another. I understand there are no ingame tools for instant matchmaking yet (sadly) but throwing down the gauntlet on the forums should get some response I'd think

2) If the goal is to play with friends it seems splitting friends across teams (or finding a sixth to run 3v3--all friends) should sort of scratch that itch and still allow for a balanced game. I know this isn't ideal but it's something :/

Like I said, I understand your frustration at not being able to play the game you want when you want (it happens to me all the time and all I want is a balanced ragequit free game) but I think full disclosure is a lot less likely to generate ill will. If I lose to a "secret" premade I'll feel duped. If I go into a game knowing it's a pre then if I lose I'll just feel like it was the expected outcome though hopefully still a good game. If I actually win a game against a pre then I'll feel uberleet until my next trouncing.

I guess what I'm saying is that not everyone in the community feels like premades are made of evil but there's *definitely* two sides to this story. I, for one, will be glad to face your premade as long as I can scare up some halfway decent teammates. Hit me up next time you see me in game.

What really matters is competency and communication. If I can get that on my team, I won't mind going against a premade. I think that using voice chat gives a premade an advantage that puggers can't easily compensate for. Other than that, I don't see any problems with it. I've lost with my premade against puggers and won as a pugger against premades. It's all about teamwork.

Purposely trying to empty someone else's lobby is inexcusably bad behavior (though Kristar didn't seem to be doing it maliciously). However if the game title doesn't make it clear you're premade then the awkward question will inevitably be brought up at some point by players who've just joined, and I would hardly call such an inquiry 'griefing'.

It probably doesn't help that everyone knows about your premade team at this point, at least the experienced players, so that may explain the long waits for your lobby to fill up. I'd join your games if I knew you guys were at least willing to mix up teams or something, but I've never encountered a premade team willing to play against itself.

Personally I've given up joining premade lobbies as a pugger, cause every time I ask for balanced teams I just get rude replies. When it comes down to it, puggers aren't ever gonna want to play premade teams if they get stomped every time, it's just how things are. And I think part of their rage and attitude towards premades is the butthurt they feel when they get beaten and they weren't aware beforehand they were playing a premade team.

quoting post

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Waiting for about 4 minutes after Dielan joined, called premade when the lobby was full and immediately quit.

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We had a game up, people joined, chemdude joined, he did his premade cheer and successfully emptied our full lobby. So, we got to wait an additional 10 minutes for it to fill back up.

In both of these instances you could of taken your 4 players put 2 on each team and had an interesting game. I don't feel bad for you at all that your rooms emptied out because those games would of been perfect definitions of what PUG stomping is. Honestly I don't understand why you are frustrated, you can't expect people to willingly get slaughtered game after game by your team as puggers.

I have said this before, if you truely want a more competitive experience EVERY time you play demigod split your premade up given the opprotunity. You will play more games and grow as a player instead of waiting in the lobby for 20 minutes with your team of four waiting for some poor pugs to walk in and get slaughtered. I honestly don't understand how you can even enjoy playing puggers game after game. I would get bored winning all the time.

What I don't understand is why:

1) Premades can't effectively schedule games with one another. I understand there are no ingame tools for instant matchmaking yet (sadly) but throwing down the gauntlet on the forums should get some response I'd think

Premades can. But imagine that premades are composed of humans with schedules and some semblance of a life outside of the game. I schedule a premade matchup with another team. We play a few and finish. They want to keep playing, but we can't. Now there is another team online ready for a game, but no matchup. It's not hard to imagine. Should the other team go offline if no other premade is available and they are a 3 man team or should they host a game.

I do this too. But if I only have 1 or 2 other teammates available, then what? Go our separate ways? Its the same thing. If premade games are available, we play.

All of this is silly though. Why aren't puggers taking the time to form teams? That's what I did. Its an insanely simple concept. Take a look at Epiphenomenon's qoute here:

Well said - a premade's advantage is in communication and familiarity. The same thing a pugger would have if they formed a premade. Instead of forming a premade (and I'm talking about non casual puggers - eg most puggers that post here), they are able to always believe that they are at an unfair advantage. Someone kills them - are you a premade? And so on. The logical solution is to form a team and become experts at team tactics in this team game. Not necessarily roll the dice and hope you get a good random player on your team. That's exciting and all and I've done that, but I can't go for that extra hit if I don't know I can count on my teammate for a shield/heal/etc. You don't know that 100% w/o chat or familiarity with your teammates.

Why aren't puggers that play fairly often forming premades? You get voice chat, plenty of premade opponents (the remaining pug community jumping into you games and harassing you).

And regarding secret premades - the people who joined my game knew we were a premade. Most do. When the overlay comes, the premade labels to games are completely gone as there SHOULD be less of an excuse for complaining with those stats in game.

Haha, I never ask the premade question, and from your screenshot see that I have been pug stomped by you guys!

Look, you're a group of mates, and you like playing together. So, if you cry about not getting a premade game going out there (if your hosting a premade, you should play against a premade for fairness, or at least tell the pugs that in description).

Yes, your poor premade team cannot get a game going if you title it premade. So here's the solution. Put 2 of your teammates on the other team. Then whatever premade advantage you have is negated by the fact that 2 on the other team know your style and skill. so you'll have 2 teams that are 1/2 premade, 1/2 pug each.

Premades are fine, I'd like to play you and your croonies if I can get my bor oo7_warhammer, Ryanheart, and StackedActR on my team... see how you fare then.

Now, I'm not bagging your premade thing, it IS how the game is designed. It is meant to be a team game, not 4 solo vs 4 solo. BUT, putting a team of 4 vs 4 solo players....welll you may as well comp stomp (but wait, you won't get the stats will you?).

You won't go on opposing teams not because you like playing together (after all you are still playing together while on oppposite teams, and let's admit it - there's nothing better than beating your mates and giving them shit about it!). The real reason premades dislike splitting for balance is because then either you or your clan mate will lose.... and the premade junkies care all too much about their goddamn stats.

Look at my stats.... 46% win ratio. Pretty shitty right? That's because I usually play the team I am in when I join. Often I find myself facing the Ryanheart+Insomniac teams, and whatever, I know it's a losss beefore the game starts. I always suggest a mixup but don't insist, I play anyway because I enjoy the game win or lose.

SO, having trouble getting your premade game off the ground? Don't call it premade, simplify the game name and get players. Then mix up the sides, and the next game mix it up again. If you have a premade group of 10 people, then go 5v5 or 4v4 or 3v3 against your premade buddies.

Today I played a game of randoms. My teammate Neilo I have played with maybe 2 times before, or probably only once.... The team we were against (USA) one claimed to be noob, the other pro. I said, hey if your noob you'll get stomped.... The guy claiming to be pro said, brring it on I willl make up for his noobness.....

We stomped the living shit out of them. The noob (who had played 0/0 win/loss) first multiplayer, was actually better than the guy claiming to be pro. It was little fun. I have had more challenge vs AI. The moral of this story is that having a great team is great fun IF the other side also has a great team. As a host it is in your own best interests to try and balance the skill to give yourself more fun in the challenge of winning.

If they bring about clanwars, I'd like to go you guys someday, until then I'll watch out for your premades when I am pugging

My premade has over 10 people in it.

that could be where the problem lies. you could easily organise inhouse games with your own premade, so do you? NO, because of stats! if your premade vsed each other in custom game all the time you would have a win ratio of 50%. i have been in a "premade" because our best players in the Aus community do like to play together, e.g. me ryanheart and insomniac. but the other players will not play against us because they do not like losing, again because of stats! if u could not check someones stats and have someone say "OMG 80% win ratio", or "my stats will be going down if i lose this, and i want to be a good ranking(my case mostly

)" the game would be better off. instead the game needs TEAM RANKINGS not individual rankings. take for example dota. there are no stats or rankings in this game, and people DO NOT care if people premade in pubs against others. this is because you are only judged on the way u play in that specific game. another example is HoN. i will not join a game where the other team has kill/death ratios severely above my own. because i dont like getting smashed, reducing my own stats and making myself look like i dont know how to play when i do. the other reasons why premades are able to play against pugs in dota/hon is because the skill level is alot higher, and people are alot more competitive and understand the game, you learn the game ALOT faster if someone yells at you "YOU SUCK WTF ARE U DOING" or "DO THIS U IDIOT OFC HE WAS GUNNA USE THAT SPELL ON U". there are flaws in demigod because u have to learn the game from the forums or www.demigoddb.com. thank god the modders are working on the in-game descriptions. demigod is new, non competitive(or doesnt support the competitive players the way it should) and NOONE TALKS IN GAME. i have played many random pugs and NOBODY uses chat at all, noone says "lets gank this guy", "help defend this tower", "capslock this flag" etc.. anyway thats just my perspective on puggers vs premades, stats are the problem. edit:BUGGING FORUMS R BAD!SORRY

^Yes, exactly what Cowbuttzex and Exotigo so eloquently stated (and some of what Lukas and Stack3d said a bit more bluntly). Sorry Pacov, but it's really hard to feel sorry for premades sitting around in unclearly marked game lobbies who get upset when asked if they are premade. I don't think that any rudeness is justified by anyone, but I think that the game will be improved by in-game stats that give people more information about who they are playing against. Much of the current hostility and suspicion about premades is due to a lack of in-game information, not because of it. People are not against team play; they are against unbalanced teams.

I don't feel bad for you at all that your rooms emptied out because those games would of been perfect definitions of what PUG stomping is. Honestly I don't understand why you are frustrated, you can't expect people to willingly get slaughtered game after game by your team as puggers.

You don't need to feel bad for me at all and I don't think I asked for that. And I'm not sure what is so confusing about the concept of getting frustrated because you want to get a game in, have someone empty out your lobby, then having to wait another 10 minutes for a game. That sound pleasant? That's shite behavior. And see below regarding my premade breaking off and playing each other. Or see my game list for just the last 20 games. 5 of them were premades based on availability. I can't speak for all teams, but I get in premade matches when its possible, win or lose.

I've never encountered a premade team willing to play against itself.

My team from 2 nights ago http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=96870. the 2nd of 2 games. Some members on my team hate playing against each other but are willing to do some from time to time. The majority of my team actually enjoy our team matches against each other.

We've balanced a few games, but its really a matter of who's on my team.

that could be where the problem lies. you could easily organise inhouse games with your own premade, so do you? NO, because of stats!

Wrong. I do play in house games. I don't have a group of 10 people at my beck and call. I have people that play at various hours of the day, some I catch maybe once a week.

LOOK. I understand - PUG CITY hates premades for X reason. So far, I think I've addressed the specific criticism and responded to whatever shots have been fired my way. My team plays against itself, we play other premades, we break into smaller groups when big games aren't possible and continue to play. We don't sit around, wait for days to arrange premade v premade matches. We play the game when we can because we enjoy it. I'm guessing you do the same. But you're an ass if you play with your friends and use (gasp) voice chat because you put the forethought to take the next logical step and form a team... but you didn't put a pissant label on the game. If I do put the magic label on (PREMADE), community outrage subsides. If I don't, I'm the evil PUG stomper.

What's with all the stat whoring deal too? I won't ever be ladder ranked number 1 and I won't last in the top 20 for long at all as I don't have quite as much time to dedicate to the game. I don't judge my opponents based on rank... um... EVER. I always go by total wins and losses. A guy with 700 games against players is probably better than a guy with 100. I get pissed about stats because 1. its a measure of how often you play 2. the system is easily beaten by 1. premades that play alot and 2. pantheon comp stomping. That's not a meaure of individual skill in any way, shape, or form.

However if the game title doesn't make it clear you're premade then the awkward question will inevitably be brought up at some point by players who've just joined, and I would hardly call such an inquiry 'griefing'.

I agree with this completely. I do not take any offense AT ALL if I have a game up without premade in the title and someone asks if its a premade. I tell them. Doing anything else but that is lousy IMO. That wasn't what happened in the examples, though. Someone joined in both instances, called a premade and left. Someone asked for confirmation after that... and I think you'll notice me saying yes. premade.

I honestly don't understand how you can even enjoy playing puggers game after game.

We agree. That is boring. That's why i don't do so every game. But I do play who is available when I am.

When I played actively I'd exclusively play with at least my best friend and many times my clan. We'd do vs against ourselves fairly often if we had enough online but 2v2s are no where near as fun as a 4v4 or 5v5. The epicness just isn't quite all there. We would make "premade" game titles here and there and play against other premade teams when we could. But we wouldn't head to the forum to set up a game a few days in advance just so we could try and have a decent game days from now. We'd actually label most of our games as "pros ony", "pros please", "good players", "great players", etc.

Here's the scary part....we didn't win every game!!!! Say what?! We'd win most of our games, especially if we had 3 or 4 of our top players in that game. But occasionally those puggers would actually read our game titles and only join if they were good, and we'd proceed to have an awesome game win or lose. We'd also find other single or paired good players this way and play with them more often.

To everyone out there, DO NOT make the mistake of assuming that every premade team is actually a team of uber elite players. Every premade teams has new players in it at some point or another. We've even arranged a few premade games against other premade teams and come to find out they had only been playing a few days, but they were friends with each other, thus giving them the premade title.

Bolange,

Try that some time. Try for a few nights of only playing games you've previously arranged on the forums. And I can guarantee you that you won't be playing any games when you feeling like it. Add that into different timezones and real life difficulties. And you'll see why it isn't very feasible or fun to use the forums to set up games.

Premades are fine, I'd like to play you and your croonies if I can get my bor oo7_warhammer, Ryanheart, and StackedActR on my team... see how you fare then.

im telling you now luke. we would get totally raped. high towers, low warscore ftl.

Wrong. I do play in house games. I don't have a group of 10 people at my beck and call. I have people that play at various hours of the day, some I catch maybe once a week.

i didnt mean to have a shot at u personally. its the stats that cause the problems, not the premades, premades are good for the games growth.

no worries stacked. And we're not going to turn down a challenge for a game. I like you Aussies just fine and were always happy to have more teams to play against.

Methinks I like Lukas_A_79 now as well. Let's play together or against soon in a PUG or team matchup.

Thanks for voicing your opinion, Pacov.

I'm really worried that when the overlay comes in, there simply won't be a way to get a steady night of gaming in, which will lead to the more hardcore crowd leaving Demigod.

How DARE people want to play a multiplayer team videogame with friends!

Really, this whole argument is stupid. Premades only have a real advantage if they're on voice chat...and I'd argue that any modern multiplayer game should include VOIP ingame anyway, so I see that more of a flaw in DG as with premades vs pugs. It's just that the type of person who plays with friends is also more likely to be a good player (a large part because they have someone to talk to about the game to talk about flaws, new strategies etc).

Quoting FutileEmotion,

reply 17

Thanks for voicing your opinion, Pacov.

I'm really worried that when the overlay comes in, there simply won't be a way to get a steady night of gaming in, which will lead to the more hardcore crowd leaving Demigod.

I can handle some abuse for this and it needs discussed again IMO. I'm pretty sick of the one sided premades are jerks rhetoric. The overlay SHOULD actually take something away from the anti-premade argument as it should give them the extra info they need to easily see if they are up against a team. I personally think there will be roughly the same amount of games available in between premade matchups. Besides, I like Pugging when my buds aren't on.

I've played against my friends/premade to balance things. It gives you street cred once you beat them and shows that you can win no matter which team you're on.

Too many puggers are f'ing paranoid. I join random games, and sometimes I am the 3rd person on the forces of light. The fourth person to join will ask if we are premade, as if having 3 people on the forces of light somehow makes your team premade.

In my mind, the division is not between "premade" and "PuG." The division is between "pro" and "people that don't have an f'ing clue." If you are pro, you communicate. If not, you don't have an f'ing clue. Puggers can use team chat just like premades can. I've played too many games where my teammates won't even use the chat feature or listen to my advice. This is n00bish.

I've played against my friends/premade to balance things. It gives you street cred once you beat them and shows that you can win no matter which team you're on.

lolz.

Well just noted the 30% win/loss of the 3 other people in the room during the time i had been in there, the fact that it was a 4v4 game with 3 slots open on your side, and another 4v4 with your team hand just disbanded and was missing the host from the new game, I always advocate people checking stats, 4 players with 80% win/loss, people can look it up themselves if they'd like... So i'm unsure where your complaint about me is? This thread seemed like something where the community wants balance, which is great, but lets all be honest about what we do and what we want. After all it is a game, people only play games with people they like,,,

Therre's nothing better than a full premade match both sides.... let's just hope more people come and learn and form clans for this to happen.

Stacked? you think we'd lose? Is that because of my inferior skill to you? Or oo7_warhammers lol.... Actually I think he beat u once, as I did once.... but that was only once haha.... Hight towers, low warscore - IDM that, do you find it hard because it lowers the rate of ninjas?

Pavov, it seems I only need 400 more wins to match your stats.... so yeah I rekon I'll get slaughtered in a pug or premade match, but what the hell, I'll play U if I see you online Vs or Allied IDM.

Forget FTW or FTL, I'm FTG: For the gaming. win or lose I don't give a shit, just a good challenge is what I'm in for.

BTW, how do you add karma in these forums? LOL

I said this in frogboy's post and I will say it here too. There are not enough people playing demigod, so alienating a whole group of people that probably adds up to over 50% of the player base is not good for the game. This feature will probably be the final nail on the Demigod coffin, and it saddens me.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

New overlays and premades – TAKE THAT YOU PREMADE JERKS!

A pacov rant