What point are you trying to make here?  That a plurality of gamers prefer a larger number of simpler characters, and that's a bad thing?

What's the difference?  The same amount of graphical assets need to be created for two modes of one god (e.g., fire and ice TB) versus two separate gods.  I think I had mentioned this in another thread, but DG graphics, being on the high-end, may actually be detrimental to the longevity of the game because of the investment required to develop new gods, maps, etc.

That's not related to proxies. The problem with ping is that they only show response time. They don't take into account upload bandwidth.

Demigod uses more upload bandwidth than the typical game (which is why it requires a broadband connection).  So what happens is that once the game gets going, you have people with really low end (fast ping but low bandwidth DSL or ISDN for instance) setups bringing it down for everyone.

I think there's a point to be made here. While I personally want the 2 new demigods more than anything else for the next big update, this brings up the whole quality/quantity conundrum. So far, the base 8 Demigods are most definitely of quality. I'd rather stick with the precedent than add more demigods for the sake of quantity.

I think 12-16 Demigods would definitely be enough variety. But what will be come 10 soon should help. And yeah, with 10 demigods the next step would obviously be 10 maps

I know there's some plans for further Demigods down the line after modding comes out from Stardock if I read correctly.

Anyway the most popular game in the world has a limited number of classes (9 at launch, only one added over the course of 5 years) which have different specs to allow them to be played differently, so saying that DG needs a massive roster to be successful is absurd on its face. There's clearly a lot of people who enjoy the massive rosters, the success of games like marvel vs. capcom and the likely success of LoL/HoN reflect that clearly, but it doesn't prove a plurarality think that way or that there's no niche for DG.

TB and QoT are the only two DGs with form shifting or graphic alteration which appear to require a totally new model, and I'm not even positive TB's models is even rebuilt so much as re-animated and and given alternate particle effects. Note that the other 8 DGs are single-form characters.

Hundreds of thousands of total sales of Demigod so far.

Also, where do you base your number of pre-order sales on?  I've seen nothing on HoN pre-orders.

But it's easy to make claims, if HoN ends up on the top 10 NPD sales lists when it ships for a couple of months then we'll know it did "well enough".

I hope it does.

When I preordered it said I was the 29000th-something person to preorder. Since that was a few weeks ago, I'm assuming it to be around 35000 by now.

nvm.

Agreed. Whenever I check stats there is always over 1000 people playing the game. There is NOTHING dead about that. Nothing at all....Get concerned when the numbers hit 300.

Agreed. It isnt a purely "casual" game - but sits pretty far from the hardcore side (as you mentioned). It can be played at a competitive level but that doesnt make it a competitive game. Im happy a game like this was made where I dont have to be 100% dedicated to playing everyday but can still compete easily at top level. Def. not a bad thing.

Anyway - I will tell you why the gameplay does reflect the "casualness" of the game.

1. Has a low skill ceiling. You cannot really argue this case. The game is easy to pick up, and easy to master (easier than most games). The game was designed like this. Everyone knows it, and Stardock/GPG have agreed with this too. When I play games its so obvious that the most important thing is the build/Demigod Combination and items I take with my Demigod - not my skill. This is a serious downfall when it comes to competitive gaming.

2. The gameplay is pretty slow for a competitive games. Slow paced games seem be very unattractive for the competitive community. When I say slow, I just mean slow compared to competitive games.

The game is for groups of people who know each other - so what? That has nearly nothing to do with competitiveness. Nearly all MMORPG's are for groups of people who know each other - does that make them competitive? A few MMORPG's are, but a very very large proportion are far from it.

There is nothing insulting about saying this game was designed mainly for the casual crowd - at all. Yes, you can still play it at a competitive level if you want, its just you wont get the same competitive/hardcore experience you would normally get from other competitive RTS's - lets say CoH or DotA for example. Dont forget too the majority of players in basically all games are in the "casual/not hardcore" crowd, and so this is where the money and action is at. I feel like this was a really defensive comment from you Poly.

Ill be honest - the only reason Demigod will not die for a very long while is because of Frogboy. If someone like him were to work for a CnC RTS or a competitive RTS game.....wow!

The mechanics are easy to learn. Beating another team that knows what its doing is not easy even remotely.

The comment was defensive. The whole Demigod is for casual player thing really makes it sound like Demigod is for n00bs who can't handle "competitve games". Its just one of those things that really get me.

As for GR? Completely dead. Until next week. Frogboy's said he'll support the site.

Skill ceiling is really a matter of opinion. I think the fact I can play Demigod with one hand and still do well sometimes make me feel like that (not the only reason).

Its still high enough to make it a playable game but its just lower than I would have liked. When I say it has a low skill ceiling, I am comparing it to games such as CCG, CoH, AoK, SC, WC etc. etc.

Well whatever is said about Demigod and who it was designed for - I know it wasnt designed for the "hardcores" (this is usually what the mainstream competition is built around) and so, who was it designed for? The problem with the term "casuals" is that it is very loose. What do you define as "casual"? Whats the line that seperates someone playing the game at a hardcore level and just playing it casually.

I define it as everyone who is not "hardcore" (or reaching that stage). But that is just me. Some of you guys may define completely differently.

So let me rephrase this for you Poly:

The reason I stopped playing - because it wasnt designed for the hardcore crowd - and I am part of that hardcore crowd. And the gameplay does reflect that, and Frogboy has said this too (that the game wasnt designed for the hardcore crowd) and so there isnt much arguing agaisnt it.

Im personally waiting for the 2 new demigods. Not playing again till those are in, guess its all LoL beta for a while longer.

I was nodding away right up till here. I think the personal skills, within a team, of each team members are important to the whole. It's not about clicks per minute, rather simply comprehension; understanding the situation as a whole and making personal, moment to moment decisions - when to press that half damaged Tower, when to pull back from that nearly dead UB. You can tell the difference from someone who 'gets it' and someone who's winging it, even in public games.

The team dynamics in Demigod are easy to understand but are constantly evolving.

Even the strategies in Demigod are evolving over time as players discover new combinations.