Kestrel's Oak Build

By Ke5trel on June 24, 2009 6:56:45 PM from

I've been developing this since late Beta, but I'm gonna start looking at other builds and maybe some games competing with this one (^^) so enjoy:

Level:         Skill:
1               Shield
2               Soul Ward
3               Penitence
4               Soul Ward II
5               Soul Power
6               Penitence II
7               Surge of Faith
8               Soul Ward III
9               Penitence III
10             Surge of Faith II
11             Soul Ward IV
12             Penitence IV
13             Soul Power II
*Most games end by this point*

If the game goes on get your ultimates in Ward and Surge, then max out Shield or put some points in Morale

Items - I like the versatility Cloak of Night Favor item gives me - makes it extremely hard to kill this build while allowing me to stretch the point of no return. Otherwise Blood of the Fallen, Amulet of Teleportation, or Ring of Divine Might all have their uses (though ring is usually better with straight morale builds).

1. Buy Monks, totem of revelation (keep the totem for increased LoS)
2. Vlemish Faceguard + Plenor Helm (you only need both if you are in a close game or you are spamming Surge)
3. Unbreakable Boots
4. Nimoth Chest Armor
5. Bishops
6. L4 Siege
7. Hauberk of Life
*with this build buy combat pots and port scrolls as necessary

Flavor - This Oak is unkillable if he's careful and can push a tower or demolish most opponents with equal facility. The thing I like most about this build is its flexibility - you don't have quite the staying power of a full minion build but you will kill more demigods. At the same time you have more survivability than most opponents and can match their burst dps. If you don't know how your opponents are teching you can always be reasonably confident that this build will cover one of their weak spots.

Things to think about -

- Minions make great scouts, tower decoys, and account for a big chunk of your late-game DPS
- Surge of Faith is a massive tactical movement and attack speed buff for you, your minions, and your allies. Use it as often as your mana will allow.
- Penitence is your bread-and-butter - figuring out whether to use it to debuff or interrupt is a big part of every battle, and it's what you will get most of your last hits from.
- Shield is your ace in the hole. If you trigger it too early or too late then this build just won't work for you. Learn how and when to use this ability and you will cut down your deaths and those of nearby allies 50% or more.

Counters - Full Morale Erebus or Oak, some HP UBs, multiple burst opponents - you can't beat a full morale build in a 1v1 with this, but you should be able to handle anything less. You have trouble with a full HP UB because his longterm survivability is close to your own and his dps is better, you have trouble with spaced focused bursts from multiple opponents, but who doesn't?

Completely Eats - Regulus, Fire TB, non-morale Oak, most Sednas, Qot, Slam Rooks, non-morale Erebus, Spit UB, towers, creep waves

Thanks for reading, and if you have any comments please let us know.

PS - if you have critiques of the build I'd love to see those too, but I'd also like to play against you before you dismiss it completely.

+118 Karma | 76 Replies

quoting post

Shield is your ace in the hole. If you trigger it too early or too late then this build just won't work for you. Learn how and when to use this ability and you will cut down your deaths and those of nearby allies 50% or more.

That is true. Shield + Wand of Speed usually ends up with pretty good survivability. Its kind of strange that people can stun you through shield though and stun is about the only thing that stops shield. The only other thing would have to be mass slow.

Another build i like is a suicide build ^^. It may not be particularly effective, but if you manage to stay alive early and snatch a few kills to get some +damage and +attackspeed items, then as soon as you hit level 8 and get last stand, in a team battle you will be pretty much the last thing anyone wants to target. And if you just manage to grab anough kills to get level 15 and ashkandor+slayers before the enemy get warrank 8, then its bye-bye enemy citadel. But that usually only happens in games with settings that are not the default.

Well, a Last Stand/Shield build on Fortress mode is fairly imba, actually, since you can do alot of damage before you die and then alot more after you die....Get good old Charm of Life, buy your death timer upgrades, and there isn't alot your enemy can do to stop you unless they can keep you completely pinned and unleveled..

Two allied Soul Power Oaks, especially on Leviathan (which has minimal towers defending citadel), can end a game within 3 minutes of reaching level 8 using Last Stand..

It's kind of a cheap ability that way, I try not to use it as a result..

Agreed... the last stand ability can be used very cheaply... Honestly, I could care less if it feels cheap. So long as its not unfair (eg its possible to combat).

I personally think its a little too powerful myself... curious to see if anyone else agrees and what you'd change... I'd drop the attack damage and/or the attack speed.

I totally agree about 2 allied oaks, though with this... that's pretty much an unstopable win over a few deaths.

My issue with last stand is that it essentially just delays your respawn timer. There are situations where it will allow you to get an extra kill, but if you die to a snipe a few feet from your crystal, then you have useless invulnerability that just extends how long it will take you to respawn.

ok but if you are dying to a Snipe at your crystal it seems to me that you aren't playing a Last Stand build the way most people would

- you being at your crystal would mean you were trying to *survive*

-with Last Stand you are almost always gonna be looking to get up close to an enemy building and hug it until you die, and then hug harder

Really what they should do with this ability is make enemy buildings immune to Last-Stand damage and increase Oak's move speed another 5% - that would give you the opportunity to chase down the DG who killed you without breaking the game every time you play Fortress

That's not really happening to me, I am just saying as an example of how that skill can end up hurting you instead of helping you, which other skills won't do in any circumstance. Even if you are playing exactly like you said, there will still be times you might die out of position and have last stand just make you wait longer to respawn. I'd rather spend points elsewhere.

I'd rather spend points elsewhere.

I tend to agree with you there - it's a tactical ability, useful only with certain game modes or situations

I have only once or twice taken Last Stand, and I have never triggered it. I have considered the ability when trying to finish a close game though, as you can just go NUTS on someones citadel and towers with it.

I wouldn't mind you doing only bonus damage to DG's, and then perhaps shortening the pseudo death animation into Last stand. Would balance it out nicely I suspect.

As Oak you can use a lvl3 sheil (.1 cast time immune for 6 seconds) and then the amulet of teleportatiion(3 second cast time) to get scot free out of a tight jam...

Level:         Skill:
1  Shield
2  Penitence
3  Soul Ward
4  Soul Ward II
5  Surge of Faith
6  Shield II
7  Shield III
8  Penitence II
9  Soul Power
10  Soul Ward III
11  Soul Ward IV
12  Penitence III
13  Penitence IV
14  Divine Justice

From here I tend to go morale

For my Favor Item I use the Amulet of Teleportation
(3sec cast, sheild lasts 6)

Item Purchases
(buy the gold upgrades at the cit. first)

1. hauberk of life
2. Vlemish Facegaurd
3. unbreakable boots
4. Slayers Wraps
5. Plenor Battlecrown
Priest Idol when required (norm. sold after lvl7)

I wanted to comment that i think this is a fantatic oak build that very much fits my style of playing.

Ke5strel,

Would you mind reviewing my oak build and letting me know the flaws? I've tried build similar to yours against AI however i typically stacked since i didnt necessarily need the armor.

1. Shield I

2. Pen I

3. Divine I

4. Soul I

5. SOF I

6. Pen II

7. Shield II

8. Shield III (If the other team has a good stunner otherwise i get Pen III)

9. Hold or Pen III

10. SOF II

11. Penn IV

12. Raise I

13. Raise II

14. Raise III

15. SOF III

16 - 20 Raise and Morale.

Favor items: typicall teleport, sometime BOF or swift ankelt (if i use swift then my skill set changes to Raise dead in early game)

Armor: Banded & scale, then save $ for vlemish, then Bishops, nimoth, level 4 siege, unbreakable and then choose between crusader or groffling. Sometimes i'll grab wand of speed or parasite if i am facing other minion builds.

Play style:

Stay away from other demi's in early game unless there is a clear advantage 1v1 against a good kiter will typically have me retreating. Once i get bishops i start hitting towers as much as possible. If im really lucky the other team doesnt skill their shield pentrating stuns but that is rare. I typically shield + port to get out of trouble or to gank others.

thanks!

hi jongalt26 - that's a good classic Assassin Oak build. ProneG and I have an ongoing debate on whether a build like yours or one like mine is better for tight team games (any thoughts, people?)

Any critiques I might have would be around items, but really, if your selections work for you don't change them..

Some things that stick out -

I would say experiment with getting monks early. If you use them right you don't have to avoid other DGs early and can push most everyone around, even with a hybrid build like mine where the minions don't hit their stride til later. Actually, if you get left alone you can down a tower at level two and walk away with half health...try that with 1000g of armor ^^

Oak doesn't really need Teleport Amulet like some other DGs might (Rook) unless you are doing a bunch of flag-hopping on a larger map. Cloak of Night + Shield allows you to pull out some ridiculous kills/saves, and BoTF means no one can push you off flag solo..

Unbreakable Boots before Nimoth, imo, just because it's so cheap and has huge value

L4 Siege is a Good Call

Also, something to keep in mind is that you can operate an Oak like that for most of a game with a helmet, monks, and Unbreakable Boots without grave risk. That gives you a bunch of money to play around with, so if someone needs to be designated Cit upgrader there are worse candidates

Anyway, see what you think and report back if any of that helps

Thanks for the advice Kestral i'll let you know how it goes!

Kestral,

I've modified my build based on yours (And Pacov's) suggestions. I've been getting L1 healers at the start wit BOF as my favor, this definitely helps with staying power. Frst trip back I try to get banded + vlemish and then L4 healers - nimoth - WoS - unbreakable - L4 archers - hauberk - and if the game goes long enough then nimoths / artifact. This has provided a lot of staying power as well.

Thanks a lot for the help!

Drop the soul... its horrible if you dont have any spirits.

lol necro prolly

Quoting lifekatana,

reply 42

Drop the soul... its horrible if you dont have any spirits.

lol necro prolly

Yep, that qualifies ^^ Also a single point in SP adds to your DPS even without spirits - as it is the build in question does use spirits, so it makes sense

I've been playing an Assassin Oak build lately and I had a couple of observations -

1. Divine Justice is great when you are last hitting DGs
2. It's much harder to 1v1 some DGs without minions - my other build eats Rooks, this one has trouble with them - towers hurt when you don't have decoys to soak up the damage
3. Shield 3 means you have time to lock a flag and port out - all while invincible and unstunnable. 6 seconds is alot
4. You need more mana to make this build effective early - it really doesn't get rolling til level 7 or later
5. You still need monks

My tentative conclusion is that Assassin Oaks are best in games where you are next to disciplined and skilled allies and you will have time to fill out your build. Any time I have poor allies or face hardcore suppression I have trouble getting this build off the ground and it feels a bit..underpowered. The primary advantage I have is that I can 1v2 for a bit before shielding and porting out - it makes it really good for ninja locking on cataract, and generally not dying unless you get stunned late.

All in all, however, the consistent performance across levels of the OP hybrid/minion build and its versatility makes it really hard for me to say that one build is better than the other. My experience is that the hybrid build will always outpush the assassin build and synergizes with Surge and Penitence better, but in very lategame play given the way flag locks currently work, raw damage won't always be the deciding factor.

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 43

3. Shield 3 means you have time to lock a flag and port out - all while invincible and unstunnable. 6 seconds is alot

You can be stunned while in Shield.

Apparently not once you have shield 3

edit: interrupts no longer work either

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 45

You can be stunned while in Shield.
Apparently not once you have shield 3

edit: interrupts no longer work either

Really. That's quite interesting. I was sure you could still interrupt.

yah try it out, no dice...it makes a level 3 shield Oak the perfect ninja capper

true.

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 47

yah try it out, no dice...it makes a level 3 shield Oak the perfect ninja capper

It makes oak the only Demigod who can always teleport in and lock a flag he already owns, nothing can stop him.

He can often then just walk out through your entire army and get away, it is pretty cool (And annoying for the opponent).

Shield 4 is bugged though You can break it given the right circumstances...

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Kestrel's Oak Build