Which is more effective, an Oak with HOL or an Oak with Mageslayer?

By fixmyfavor on June 10, 2009 5:22:08 PM from

Today I played in a game where suddenly I started getting pwned by an enemy Oak player whilst I was playing Oak. I asked him how he got his attack speed so high and he said with Mageslayer. I asked him "don't you get HOL instead" and he said "Negative" and according to him, Oak with Mageslayer is nearly game-breaking.

Do you agree with his opinion that Mageslayer is better to get than HOL?

Do you agree that Oak with Mageslayer is extremely powerful?

What are the proper tactics for an Oak with HOL to beat an Oak with Mageslayer?

+1 Karma | 20 Replies

Well, it all really depends. Maybe there other factors to why you lost all your health suddenly that you didnt tell us. Most oaks I see go with HoL + Shield Combo which just rapes me when it comes to 1 v 1 (Phyce looking at you). So all you have to do is wait till low life and Shield and pop HoL.

Mageslayer is powerful but if he gets that early in the game, hes vulnerable before then and not relaly a great contributor to his team. Its all opinion I guess.

I don't use HOL for Oak very much. He's got a good amount of hitpoints and he can get hit points back with priest or by killing enemies and using Soul Power. Penitence uses so much mana that you usally need a hat or two anyways and once your wearing them I find the mana comes back fast enough that you don't need HOL as long as your using Soul Power. Monks cost 900 and restore all your hitpoints eventually (Plus your teamates) and they can do it in battle. If I had the choice of of a MageSlater or a HOL then definitely I'd take the MageSlayer (As I could sell it and buy a HOL and some potions.)

HOL is only useful if your using it with Shield in battle. Otherwise in won't help you at all as it's effect doesn't work if your taking damage. The only way you can use HOL is to wait until you see him use Penitence then shield yourself and use it get some health and mana back. The best way to kill him is to gang up on him like any other demigod.

But if your playing 1v1 then the Sludge Slinger neutralizes the 25% speed advantage for 7 second which could give you a edge up on him. Otherwise beat on him. Use shield and escape, use HOL to get up to back full strength and keep beating on him and fleeing till he dies.

Yeah, it was late in the game when I started getting pwned. I had HOL way before he had Mageslayer and was pwning him early on, and my team won the game.

But when he did get Mageslayer, all of a sudden even with the 6 second shield and HOL I still couldn't stand up to him, because of the cooldowns on Shield and HOL.

At level 10 with Mageslayer and Max Soul Power he could be dishing 400dps and that is not counting the damage of the spirits.

Regulus and UB can also attain 400dps at level 10 with Mageslayer.

Quoting Zygwen,

reply 4

At level 10 with Mageslayer and Max Soul Power he could be dishing 400dps and that is not counting the damage of the spirits.

Is that enough to make Mageslayer a better choice than HOL, or no?

Quoting fixmyfavor,

reply 5

Quoting Zygwen, reply 4At level 10 with Mageslayer and Max Soul Power he could be dishing 400dps and that is not counting the damage of the spirits.

Is that enough to make Mageslayer a better choice than HOL, or no?

Well if he has mageslayer and you use HoL+Shield combo to get back to full health/mana he could probably just kill you a second time.

Quoting JagerJack,

reply 6

Well if he has mageslayer and you use HoL+Shield combo to get back to full health/mana he could probably just kill you a second time.

Yes, this seems to have been my experience. And the horribly long cooldowns of Shield and HOL prevent me from saving myself that second-time.

I don't get why everyone whines about HOL like it's uber and needs to be nerfed. The cost of it combined with the cooldown combined with it stops working if you take damage is enough of already-in-built nerfs as it is.

HoL is a better compliment to a Penitence based build. you'll generally be using ALOT more mana in a build like that and you've somewhat de-emphasized autoattacks anyway because you're not using Soul Power.

Mage Slayer is a great item for a Raise Dead build since it works so well with your Soul Power and because you're just more auto-attack focused in that build in general.

- 289 dmg at a rate of 0.798 at level 10 with +25 dmg and the crit gloves
- if you get soul power 1 and have 9 spirit you get +80 dmg, and with the crit thats...

324 dps

- now if you get Mageslayer you get 334 + 80 = 414 dmg with a rate of 0.9975, thats...

454 dps

but you also leech back life for 54 dps.

So you do 4540 in 10 seconds, and you leech back 540 and get hit with 3240, so you effectively take 2700 damage only. Thats 68% better vs non-Mageslayer (which is huge!). Now let's assume you also get Namoth Ring (20hps, 8% leech, 750hp), which will leech back for 908 (together with mage) and regen 200 also, so you only take 2132 damage and you do 4540!!

Now this is just an example... because we ignored armor here, I'd get other items for the Oak.

too lazy to read posts

get both(im assuming this was said)

I personally almost never take HoL as Oak, but my reasons are largely due to my playstyle, and I'm sure some people justify needing to have it. Here's why I don't...

1.) I love, love, love priest minions. They up my survivability a ton and also my longevity on the field. However, consistantly using them with HoL is a pain, since their heal interrupts it. I value the priests more than HoL most of the time, so they usually keep me from getting it.

2.)Early to mid game, I have no room for it. My slots are taken up by Wand of Speed, TP scrolls, and flag locks. So until we hit war rank 10, I can't even begin to justify fitting the HoL in there.

3.)My build does not incorporate maxed shield time. I typically pick up rank 1 shield at level 3 and then never touch it again. I've gotten really good at using shield as a big attack is coming at me, and thats really all i need it for. Putting those points elsewhere allow me to pump up my damage substantially. Don't get me wrong, high rank shield is sweet as hell, but it's just not my style.

4.)I prefer to get stronger gear/cit upgrades. Why get a HoL if you can make yourself strong enough not to need it? Between priests and divine justice, I find that i can regenerate fairly successfully without it. Yes, I will go OOM sometimes, and that does suck, but I find that being that much more effective while I have mana is worth it. Plus, cit upgrades are always helpful.

5.)Certain opponents/situations make HoL nearly impossible to use. I've been in matches where I've been fighting trebuchet Rooks with Angels and it is damned impossible to get that thing to stay on very long. Kinda makes the thing a poor investment, and I find situations like this come up far too much for my liking.

Also, to answer your question specifically: I personally adore Mageslayer. If you're doing well, it's a relatively cheap upgrade, I also find that attack speed is super crucial to Oak, mainly because Surge of Faith makes it incredibly easy to get to absurd levels of awesome. Oak has plenty of skills at his disposal to up his weapon damage, so this is really the only time I'll ever buy an item to directly up my auto attack: the attack speed is what really does it for me. Plus, it makes you a pushing machine, able to take down towers at a stupid rate. However, it IS roughly 4k more than a HoL, so there would be certain situations where I wouldn't want to get it.

I think a better comparison would be between MS and HoL + Namoth's Ring, since we're only talking about a 250 gold difference over the 3,750 difference with the original comparison.

My item suggestion is...

Nimoth Chest Armor 1500g
Vlemish Faceguard 1750g
Mageslayer 8000g
Slayer's Wraps 3300g
Narmoth's Ring 4000g

This should work fine. I'd get Blood of the Fallen favor, the Totem of War is around +9% dps with this setup. I think 12-15% more health is better.

Why would you be in the forums if your not bored, reading posts would take up more time.. thus releive more boredom.

Id take the 4k ring, and 1500 armor + a bunch of other items over waiting for 8k and getting mage.

I'd go mmageslayer, personally.

If ast this point they still have towers up, mageslayer means they won't be in the next 5 minutes as you raze them to the ground quickfast. That and I prefer to kep uhte pressure and go offensive instead of going HoL.

Mageslayer, no question. The lifetaps plus your own healing means you will stay in play longer, and the haste + damage means you'll be killing. That is just a bit better than running away to heal up.

Mageslayer to kill, HoL to cap.

Well I tried out buying Mageslayer first, but I ended up selling it for HoL. I couldn't hold up to the Sedna on the other team with it, and if Ice TB showed up it was game over because I could not escape or heal in shield, not to mention that I was constantly out of mana for penitence. Once I swapped it for HoL the match seemed to turn much more in our favor, and I got many more kills because I had mana to penitence.

I guess it would work well against people who don't buy any HP items, but the other team made sure to have 3-4k before level 10.

I never use the Shield/HoL combo with my Oak. I do a mix of minion and effective attacking, I load up on better armor (platemail of crusader) rather than getting HoL, and I'll usually go for Cloak of Flames for the extra mana + skill activation, or Cloak of Elfinkind if I'm up against Demigods I may not feel confident I can beat. In fact mageslayer is usually my 3rd artifact. I only get 1 point of shield and use it as a snipe/fireball blocker or clearing debuffs (for myself or teammates!) I felt using Shield III/IV was too expensive on the mana for my tastes, and any stun knocking off your HoL means ur pretty much screwed. Too risky IMO

My Oak build is probably very irregular but I've had much success with it, don't want to share all my secrets

Quoting fixmyfavor,

reply 3

Yeah, it was late in the game when I started getting pwned. I had HOL way before he had Mageslayer and was pwning him early on, and my team won the game.

But when he did get Mageslayer, all of a sudden even with the 6 second shield and HOL I still couldn't stand up to him, because of the cooldowns on Shield and HOL.

He was using Surge of Faith? That also increase Oak's attack speed. If he also had a Narmoth's Ring(along with the Mageslayer), you're looking at a fast attacking Oak with 20% lifesteal. A setup that is hard to go toe to toe against...

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Which is more effective, an Oak with HOL or an Oak with Mageslayer?