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Brad’s May Demigod FAQ

By on May 27, 2009 8:53:04 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Greetings!

we get letters… And so here are some answers to some frequently asked questions:

Q: When is the Demigod demo coming out?

A: Soon.   Stardock and GPG are working on it.  Probably in the next 3 weeks.

Q: What will the demo have in it?

A: It will be online only (but you will be able to play AI players). It will have 1 map and 4 of the Demigods is what we’re thinking right now. Should be enough to get a taste of the game and make sure the online experience works well for those players.

Q: Speaking of online, so where does that stand?

A: Pretty good.  For custom games it’s fine.  For pantheon and skirmish less fine.  The proxy servers have helped tremendously.  We are nearly done with a rather cool (well I think it’s cool) smart proxy server chooser thingy (that’s a technical term) where, based on your IP address it figures out your latitude and longitude and then maps it to the nearest proxy server.

You still have some people who just will not, cannot talk to each other. I’ve personally seen it.  They can connect to other people but they can’t connect to each other.  Bear in mind, this happens in most RTSs. The difference with Demigod is that we have the connection dialog and we let people in the lobby as soon as they connect to the host.  If this were a different RTS, what would happen is you’d be in the lobby just waiting for more people to show up and thinking no one liked your game.  Anyone who’s ever played an RTS has certainly seen that.  Now you know one of the reasons why.  But in Demigod, it was decided that the host should be able to decide who stays or goes if someone can’t connect to someone. There’s pros and cons either way.

Now, in Pantheon and Skirmish, it’s a different story. There isn’t a “host” per se so if someone can’t connect to another for whatever reason, that’s a problem.  We’re working on a different way to create skirmish/pantheon games to resolve that.

But overall, at this stage, if you’ve played RTS’s before, you probably won’t have a problem with Demigod.  At this point, I would say that (especially for custom games) more people can connect in Demigod than in most RTSs because most RTS’s don’t have proxy servers.

However, that brings me to the next point.

Q: You say Demigod’s online play is fine now but I have a problem.

A: For that I say go to http://www.speedtest.net/ and check your upload speed.  Demigod requires a broadband connection defined as at least 256 kilobit upload and download to reliably play a 5 on 5 game.  A 3 on 3 game requires about 120 kilobit (about twice what an old phone modem does).  v1.01 should reduce this well below the threshold of low end connections.  But if you get a speedtest rating of less than 256 kilobit, you should stay with 3 on 3 games max unless you know how to make sure you’ve turned off other sources of uploading.

For example, it seems like everytime I run into someone whose complaining about “high in game ping even though it was fine in the lobby” it turns out to be someone with a DSL line that has 128 kilobit upload who also has a torrent seeder going on.  Don’t do that.

Also, we have not given up on “edge” cases.  The team at Stardock and GPG keep coming up with clever ideas to help more and more people. 

Q: When is Demigod v1.01 coming out?

A: Ideally Thursday but no promises as this week is a shortened week in the United States (Memorial Day was on Monday).  There’s a lot of changes in v1.01 so we have to do a lot of testing with it.

Q: When are more Demigods coming out?

A: We are discussing that topic this week with Gas Powered Games. Obviously we would like to see sooner rather than later.

Q: How are sales of Demigod?

A: The coupon we sent out has kind of muddled the stats since obviously sales were off the charts this past week digitally.  At retail they’re pretty close to what Sins of a Solar Empire did but the digital market has continued to grow which is making it harder to do apple and apple comparisons.

Q: When will Demigod be released in <insert country here>

A: Atari is handling Demigod outside North America. I’m not sure what the specific country data is.  You can visit Atari at www.atari.com for more information for your specific locale.

Q: What about more maps?

A: This is something we’re particularly interested in too.  I would personally like to see some duel maps (1 on 1).  I’ll have more info on this soon.

Q: <Demigod that beat me> is overpowered.

A: No it isn’t.

Q: <Player who beat me> is cheating.

A: No he isn’t.

Q: What are some things YOU (Brad) think Demigod needs to continue being popular long term?

A: I’m just speaking for myself here but these are some of the things I’ll be pushing for:

  1. More Demigods, more maps.
  2. Better community features. Ways to make it a more positive community.
  3. Ways for pros to play pros and casual players to play casual players
  4. Networking diagnostics built into the game to improve online experience for non-techies.
  5. More items that provide strategic depth.
+912 Karma | 67 Replies
May 27, 2009 8:39:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I tried to run WoW and Demigod at the same time and got a BSOD. Luckily I think I know how to prevent that happening in the future.

May 27, 2009 9:17:05 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting PsycloneTW,
RE: Coupons. 

I have yet to recieve mine and did in fact buy and register it via Impulse prior to the cutoff of May 10th.  Should I give it some more time or contact support?

I am in the same boat as this guy. I have also heard they have a deadline...

May 27, 2009 9:34:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Q: You say Demigod’s online play is fine now but I have a problem.
A: For that I say go to http://www.speedtest.net/ and check your upload speed.  Demigod requires a broadband connection defined as at least 256 kilobit upload and download to reliably play a 5 on 5 game.  A 3 on 3 game requires about 120 kilobit (about twice what an old phone modem does).  v1.01 should reduce this well below the threshold of low end connections.  But if you get a speedtest rating of less than 256 kilobit, you should stay with 3 on 3 games max unless you know how to make sure you’ve turned off other sources of uploading.

 

This is something I've been curious about for a few days.  It's been stated in several posts that as you add more players, Demigod requires more upstream bandwidth.

 

Now, in a pure peer-to-peer model the reason is obvious: I have to send my packets to every other player in the game, hence the bandwidth scales linearly with the number of players.  But my understanding is that with proxies, I never connect directly to the other players; all my traffic is routed through a proxy.  I also thought that RTSes usually work by sending your commands to other players, so all that outgoing traffic is duplicated. (N copies of "I'm moving over here now", for instance)

 

If I'm talking directly to a single proxy, why do I need to send out 5 copies of every "I'm moving now k?" packet?  Shouldn't I be able to just send 1 copy to the proxy and let it make 5 copies on its end?  I'm sure you would have thought about this already, so I'm guessing there's something I don't understand about how Demigod's networking is set up (e.g., maybe proxies are only for incoming connections and outgoing ones are done the old-fashioned way?)

May 28, 2009 1:23:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Q: What will the demo have in it?
A: It will be online only (but you will be able to play AI players). It will have 1 map and 4 of the Demigods is what we’re thinking right now. Should be enough to get a taste of the game and make sure the online experience works well for those players.

This means that you are confident in the player base to provide a positive experience to new comers?!

May 28, 2009 6:37:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1v1 duel maps. Interesting.

May 28, 2009 6:49:49 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No 1v1 maps please. More 2v2 maps instead. This is not a game balanced for 1v1 DM. And for those who want 1v1, they can play it on a 2v2 map just fine, imo...

May 28, 2009 7:25:39 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I have a question. When will I be able to remap the free camera function to a mouse button? Having to use space bar to adjust the camera everytime I respawn is beyond anoying.

May 28, 2009 6:26:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Dead Ghost,
No 1v1 maps please. More 2v2 maps instead. This is not a game balanced for 1v1 DM. And for those who want 1v1, they can play it on a 2v2 map just fine, imo...

I could not agree more with this person, the game is anything but 1v1 balanced.  2v2 a little more, 3v3 and up pretty much very balanced.  Get us more 3v3 maps, Cataract and Prison are getting old, 4v4 maps okay but a lot of maps aren't appropriate size to play 3v3 on.

May 28, 2009 9:03:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm able to play online ever since I plug my pc directly into my dsl modem instead of the router. This is a bit annoying since I have to replug it in order to access my printer and have my 360 online but at least I have a way to play so I won't complain.

 

The casual vs. pro observation is a good point though and I'm happy you're thinking in that direction.

Although the graphics of DG are awesome it plays more like a mod than a full game. Learning the game is tough and you have to hunt the internet even for basic information like a list of the skills and items available. You can't even spent the time until you respawn reading through your skill tree tooltips!

If the game had a single player component (like most other RTS games) that served as a tutorial (or even a playable tutorial) the frustration level in the beginning would really be more tolerable.

Because it really sucks to play online when your teammates complain (or quit) all the time because you suck at playing the game and can't match their levle of "skill" or you join a custom game declared "noob" and they complain that you abuse them just because you already know what skills to skill in what order and where to shop for better creeps...

 

Another thing missing on the list of things that need fixing are the Stats and Favor Points. The first time ever I won a game was counted as a loss which really frustrated me so much that I almost uninstalled the whole game. And although I never bought something from my fav points I sometimes have over thousand and then suddenly only a couple of hundred again.

Since the game as it is now is definitely not suitable for a non-hardcore audience you should really get the numbers right before they discard the game for messing with their stats and achievements!

 

May 28, 2009 10:17:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting MEATER,

If the game had a single player component (like most other RTS games) that served as a tutorial (or even a playable tutorial) the frustration level in the beginning would really be more tolerable.

Because it really sucks to play online when your teammates complain (or quit) all the time because you suck at playing the game and can't match their levle of "skill" or you join a custom game declared "noob" and they complain that you abuse them just because you already know what skills to skill in what order and where to shop for better creeps...
 

Just read the manual and then play some fights vs AI on Easy.

May 28, 2009 10:55:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"Q: <Demigod that beat me> is overpowered.

A: No it isn’t."

You guys can't seriously think you're done with balancing issues? That shows a severe level of both arrogance and lack of comprehension of what constitutes a balanced game.

 

Sorry.  I've been with you through all of this connectivity bullcrap even though the game is severely lacking on content for a redundant multiplayer experience (You guys remember how Starcraft started that "Map of the Week" thing pretty early on?).  But with this type of flippant proclamation I am left simply to conclude that you're not really interested in making a fun game, just making a game that works well enough.  

 

Also, I can't think of a single game I play that uses P2P, that is not for online multiplayer.  Use Host-client.  It's ridiculously arrogant to presume your game has more data throughput and therefore can't use Host-Client (which btw makes no sense) or requires more synchronization than any other of the hundreds of similar online games.  You guys should have used H2C from day one and spent all this time working on new maps and balance issues and adding new DGs or skill trees for existing DGs so that this game's online community didn't burn out with all the redundancy in the lack of maps, etc..

 

Oh well, Live and Learn I hope.  GL In the future.

May 28, 2009 11:38:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You guys can't seriously think you're done with balancing issues? That shows a severe level of both arrogance and lack of comprehension of what constitutes a balanced game.

Actuallly, I suspect that's a reflection of the current state of the forums, where you get threads complaining every single DG is 'unbalanced' and 'needs balancing'. 

Also, I can't think of a single game I play that uses P2P, that is not for online multiplayer. Use Host-client. It's ridiculously arrogant to presume your game has more data throughput and therefore can't use Host-Client (which btw makes no sense) or requires more synchronization than any other of the hundreds of similar online games. You guys should have used H2C from day one and spent all this time working on new maps and balance issues and adding new DGs or skill trees for existing DGs so that this game's online community didn't burn out with all the redundancy in the lack of maps, etc..


Pretty much every single RTS game is going to be P2P at the calculation level, if not the networking level.  It's possible to network based on a H2C system, yes, but that has it's own flaws (one thing that comes to mind is that when the host drops, everyone drops... whether they could have hosted or not).  Fact is, P2P is a good networking strategy that's coming into its own, and would be making even more progress if it werent' for it's 'tainted' nature (bittorrent and similar 'pirating' strategies).

May 29, 2009 8:13:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Dead Ghost,

Just read the manual and then play some fights vs AI on Easy.

Well that's what I did. Even played every demigod at least once or twice before I decided which ones to take online. With the result described.

The community are mostly "pro" players that are apparently playing for stats rather than just the fun and challenge and of course get pissed when they have to play with a noob.

Anyone picking the game up just looking for a good time after working all day has to go through a lot more of frustrations than any other RTS out there that feeds you an 8 hr Single Player Campaign that teaches you the basics of playing and extends into mulitplayer.

The only way to fix this would be some kind of skill level comparison in match making so you end up playing guys your level in skirmish. At least this way the pro gamers starting with a new account would have to be patient with the noobs they play with.

May 30, 2009 5:52:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Rinzai,

Also, I can't think of a single game I play that uses P2P

 

This must be your first RTS game.  In that case, welcome to P2P gaming, its been around a long time.

June 1, 2009 7:54:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm sorry, but the stuff about demigod having just as good networking as "other RTS" is just flag out wrong. Anyone who has played starcraft or warcraft knows you are wrong. I know you need to market your game, but please don't insult my intelligence by feeding me obvious falsehoods. At the very least, you make yourself sound uninformed.

You guys went with a peer to peer networking model, which does not work well for games, and which starcraft and warcraft 3 *do not use*. You tried to work around NAT problems instead of making users deal with them by port forwarding. Those were both huge and obvious mistakes that resulted in your game having poor network connectivity. The need for all hosts to have good upstream also makes the game lag like crazy.

I still play demigod, because once you get a game going the gameplay is very good. However, there's no point in pretending that GPG or Stardock, or whoever, didn't screw up the networking architecture.

June 5, 2009 8:45:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would personally like to see some duel maps (1 on 1).

 

since you asked nicely i did  abit of thinking and came up with a few ideas for 1v1 maps...  for now i've only posted one however if people like the idea i have about 4 more in sketch mode which can be put into the forums within a few days.  let me know what you think here:

New Map Idea: Pit (1v1) (with Pics)

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