Stats and Rage Quitting

By T-Man on May 15, 2009 5:03:18 PM from

Frogboy seems to be about the only one making posts in the development journals so I figured I'd put my two cents in for once.

Most of you are well aware that there are errors and bugs in the stats on the Pantheon website. So I will start out by saying that we are working on fixing the problems. However it has been a slow procress. As mentioned in other posts, the stat side of things sometimes takes awhile to get addressed because some of the developers required to fix a problem have also been working on the much higher issue of network connectivity.

So we have slowly been getting items fixed here and there but one thing we are not doing right now is going back and fixing data that has already been submitted. But as new data comes it is more accurate and up to date. Once we feel comfortable that we have the stats working where we want it to be we do plan on Resetting most or all of the data. This way everyone will start with a clean slate and will be on equal footing.

One particular area that was worked on this week was how to deal with Rage Quitting. In an effort to help give people an incentive not to rage quit we have made some adjustments to their stats for that game. So what we have done is set up a rule that if a player rage quits that he will automatically get marked as a loss and lose all favor points and achievements earned in that game. Most cases a person is rage quitting because they are losing anyway, so the loss wont be that big of a deal. But any additional favor points they may have earned will be tossed out.

That's all I have for you now. I know there was a couple other items I wanted to report on but seem to have forgotton what they are. If I remember I will be sure to update this thread or post a new journal entry.

+50 Karma | 74 Replies

One issue is that going to Menu->End Game looks like a disconnect to peers--everyone has to wait 30 seconds, etc. Will you not be distinguishing between someone dropping due to connection problems, and ragequitting? If it's End Game, there really should be some message sent to other players that they've actually left and we shouldn't have to wait and make it count as a loss. But a true lost connection or crash becoming a loss will be a guaranteed frustration for many players. On the other hand, there is ALWAYS a way to ragequit and make it look like a lost connection (and not actually ending game as normal), so perhaps this is the best way to go (at least after all connection issues are sorted out).

Quoting ShunKeets,

reply 1

Agreed I hate waiting for 30 seconds to continue =

But thanks for the update most appreciated and I like the idea's you proposed

I say fix the connectivity issues first, then make punishments like that.

Quoting Mortissia,

reply 3

I say fix the connectivity issues first, then make punishments like that.

Just thinking, What if you quit because of unbairable lag?

I would like to see some sort of karma number or ratio of disconnects a player has next to their name so i can know if i should kick them from my custom games.

It's a really hard problem to fix. (Quit via lag, or quit via rage).

I think the best option is to make it such that a player has an obvious incentive to keep playing, but isn't so penalized as to make them hate the game if they lag out or have other connection problems.

Quoting Mortissia,

reply 3

I say fix the connectivity issues first, then make punishments like that.

I simply don't think 'punishments' are the answer for rage quitting. An 'incentive' approach to having people stick it out and go down heroicly may be better.

For the most part I stick even the worst losing games, but there are times where you are getting rolled so bad there is simply no fun to be had. Perhaps we could look at that?

Zubaz rage quits this thread.

I believe the proper term is Rage Quilting, but I shall forgive you just this once.

I have a large collection or rage quilts on my bed. I kind of view them as trophies. In L4D I try to goad people into quilting, thereby making them mad at me and sticking around. Reverse psycholosis or somesuch.

There are several issue that need to be addressed before implementing something like this.

1. Connection issues and crashes.

It would not be fair to punish someone because the game crashes as seems to be happening alot atm. I was crashing alot and have figured out that mcafee corporate 8.5 does not like demigod as of 3 updates ago, and was causing me to crash in game.

2. People playing with a system that is operating WAAY to slow to play the game

Had a game the other day where one of the opposing teams players sime speed would hover around 2 then spike down to -2, -5, etc. The game was literally nerveracking to play because you would take 2 steps then freeze for a second, rinse and repeat. My entire team left the game due to the silly amount of "lag" due to the one players sim speed and one of thiers left as well. Should someone be punished with a loss because your playing on an archaic machine and cause eveyones gameplay to be unbearable?

3. Game crashes at loading screen

Once again your name will be in the game but due to a game code failure your now going to get a loss?

I hate rage quitters like everyone else, but punishing people with legitimate problems seem a bit harsh, especially when you can look at a forum and see so many people having disconnect issues and crashes. I would agree not to award them the favor points, but not with adding the loss.

Perhaps if we had a function to see what your sim speed would be prior to launching the game, as well as ping thats would help with one of the issues, but there is alot to be considered before implimenting something like this. I mean someone with a 2 to -5 sim speed should not even be able to get in a game IMO. Its just unbearable.

If this had been in place when mcafee was crashing my system I would have alot of losses when i was testing the crashes with a bud trying to figure out what was causing them.

If your team is losing, why not allow people to quit so it's not dragged out? Counts as a loss sure, but no reason to continue a game once the outcome is obvious.

To bad you don't have a stat for "disconnects"

To willfully choose to quit a game should count as a loss but it may be informative to see someone with (insert number) of disconnects.

I'd say that quilting and amicably parting ways are (logically) two different things.

You never hear someone call a dude a quilter because he said "gg" and left the game in Starcraft. However, he fully deserves the quilting title if he up and quits. It's one thing to coordinate with your team and get them to agree to be done and then EXPRESS it to the other team. It's a completely different thing to get super pissed off and hit the quilt button and go wallow in your newfound warmth.

In the end, it's not a problem that is solvable.

nah they just need to make them get like -1000 favor ands -500 favor then they leave or disconnect from a game

Quoting Jedmonds24,

reply 13

To bad you don't have a stat for "disconnects"

To willfully choose to quit a game should count as a loss but it may be informative to see someone with (insert number) of disconnects.

They do have a disconnect stat...have you looked at the pantheon page at all?

Looks like you caught me not paying attention half the time

Why not give an option to "concede" a loss? The opposing team would then have to accept (most would). If you want to make it interesting, only allow a game to be conceded if there is a disconnect or unbalance of players on each side (2 players vs 1 and an AI for example). Also an option to do something similar, perhaps end a game with no pentalties or rewards if one whole team is AI players, though I have no idea if those will even matter.

Put in a "Surrender" Option at the Citadel or within the Menu.. if the hole Team thinks "ok weve lost the game so lets surrender" its ok... game stops like the citadel is destroyed for example. That could stop ragequiting too because right now a lot of ppl just stand behind their citadel watching the enemy how they destroy their base without any problems.. but that takes up to 10 minutes till it happen... with the surrender option the team can "quit" while telling the enemy "gg you have defeated us and we surrender" without this 30 seconds crap for 2-3-4 times in 1 game.. ^^

*just my 2 cent*

Will you handle people who leave the game right at the start gracefully? (the ol' A Player Has Left the Game when the map finishes loading due to connection issues...) What about when the game "splits" and everyone is still playing...but now they are playing separate games against bots. I've been in several of these and even though I finish out the game (and win agaisnt the AI), when I goto my stats I see that my opponents get the Win and I get the Loss. Not fair!

I think the idea of an agreeable surrender is a great idea and should seriously be considered!

To the people that want to punish rage quitters...you cant and call it fair. There's no way to differenciate a legit internet hiccup/loss and a plug-pull...among other ways to drop and make it look like a d/c. And even if you can tell the difference...theres just so many things that CAN go wrong with a connection, you never know.

Hell, my cat chewed through my ethernet cable while in a Counter-strike match once... Im on wireless now.

Maybe a percentage showing games played and games left , for whatever reason, I know it sounds harsh but a leave is a leave whether its a quit plug pull or connection problem. Maybe it should also show the numbers as well so you know that someone with 100% leave ratio but only one game could be a connection problem. The longer it runs the better it will be the leavers will have high percentages and so will people with constent connection problems, you wouldn't want to play with those people either.

I agree a surrender option should be in and this shouldn't count as a leave if it is agreed upon.

But a problem like this isn't going to have an easy solution and I have no doubt what I suggested has problems I haven't thought of as all things do.

how are you going to distinguish rage quitting from people with things that come up in real life for whatever reason...

the whole point of punishing people who quit a game because they no longer get satisfaction from it is kind of stupid in my mind... but anyway, since it only affects the current game and not accumulated efforts it's not that big of a deal....and probably won't impact much of anything in the long run anyway.

Quoting QuantumDot,

reply 5

I would like to see some sort of karma number or ratio of disconnects a player has next to their name so i can know if i should kick them from my custom games.

I would like to say this is a good idea IMO. I have been in several games in the custom side where you even start to recognize the names after awhile that rage quit. lol

You need to track disconnects.

As soon as people start hearing about tracking "Menu->End Game", people will just switch to "Alt-tab, CTRL-ALT-DEL, End Process".

The important stat is how many times has a person left a game (unintentionally, or intentaionally doesn't matter) before the game has finished.

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Stats and Rage Quitting