Unclean Beast + Spit OP

as an UB player I have to agree here. I think they did it to give the character visually different abilities but as you said it's a bit over kill. Make it a melee skill and it would be better balanced.

Another one of these? sigh...

Four demi's have a counter.

Favor item can purge it.

If it wasn't ranged though he would be incredibly underpowered. Getting close to enemy heros or teamplay is a deathsentence against somone expereinced. Without spit, he would have an extremly hard time holding flags early game. Although I agree it doesn't fit, he would require buffing elsewhere if that was the case.

I agree, I either think the range on spit needs to be reduced, or the damage. Or we need more counters.

Honestly his range is pathetic with spit. I can't think of another ranged skill that has a smaller range than spit. Even a pro regulus can hit and run UB without ever getting spit on. (I've seen it done, talk about FRUSTRATING).

Quoting ABecks,

reply 4

I agree, I either think the range on spit needs to be reduced, or the damage. Or we need more counters.

Yes the most counterable ability needs more counters...

Quoting ABecks,

reply 4

I agree, I either think the range on spit needs to be reduced, or the damage. Or we need more counters.

Um, what?

Sedna's Heal is actually overpowered against UB if anything, removing Spit and healing a huge amount of damage. This can be cast on other players.

Oak's Shield removes it, heals him, and makes him immune to damage for X seconds. This can be cast on other players.

Queen's Bramble Shield has the same cooldown, costs less mana, and will prevent all the damage from a spit. This can be cast on other players.

Erebus's Mist removes Spit and makes him immune to all attacks in the game. He can then teleport out of range just by waiting till his cooldown is up.

There is a favor item which removes all negative effects.

Those are just the actual pure counters.

You also have other options, like:

Unclean Beast is has spit too, for mirror matches.

Regulus can use a combination of mines and snipe to keep a safe distance.

Torchbearer can harrass from a distance, and has a combination of stuns and interupts to help mitigate UB's damage.

Rook is better than UB in melee if specced for it, and can construct a nearly impenetrable tower wall.

Spit is not tough at all if you know how to play.

Ub's spit is soooooo overpowered, I got spit on and died....wut happened thar?????

If devs want to balance something i'd nerf the Rook towers, they have too much hp.

UB is not overpowered at all. Spit is his bread and butter skill, he hopes that you think he is all that in melee too, because we all know late game when you hit the 6k health mark UB's spit is useless. UB has low health, so without spit he couldn't kill you. However, he is strong enough to kill you as you are trying to run away.

Spit is not at all OP, beast is so weak and easy to kill.

Quoting Xinoxlx,

reply 2

Another one of these? sigh...

quoting post

I am just wondering what the dev's were thinking when they gave the strongest melee class an extremely strong ranged attack aswell...

UB tactics = run up, spit, run away, they can solo towers at level 2, as well as most classes. If you attempt to counter spit by attacking the UB, he runs up, and wastes you with his intentionally strong melee skills.

I have no problem with the UB as a melee class, but why give the strongest melee class one of the best ranged attacks in the game?

It is not OP most beast players combine it with staff of renewal so they can get spit off more often. It is basically the favor items that keep breaking the game play with them off

QQ

Heroes seem pretty balanced imo. Most of the whining is coming from people who want to play dota but accidentally load up DG instead and are aghast they can't win with a stunlock.

Heroes aren't all equally powerful, in all contexts, but when regular and favor items are added in, team dynamics, and you understand half the battle in these games is position and motion (as opposed to who can do the most dps), then you'll stop QQing and enjoy the game

Naz

As other's have said, there are counters. Personaly i dont feel it over powered, i think you just dont know how to play well. This be like me bitching about Rooks and their towers or QoT with their sheilds or Rag's really long finishing sniper shots. It comes down to one thing that makes such things over powering.... that the player with skill... playing them.

My main issue with UB is combined with mostly any other DG he gets a garaunteed kill if he can get near another DG at the same level.

As a rook yesterday with tons of HP items and the HP favor item I could not survive the other 2 UBs would come over, both spit then take it in turns to stun me, auto attacking all the time. They just run from my partner then as I didn't do any damage to them so they weren't even slightly bothered. Impossible to counter apart from never ever getting in a position where they could do it.

It was impossible to avoid on the 2v2 map as I had to attempt to get the lowest 2 flags as it was Dominate. Also quite often 1 UB would go round the back of the top flag while another would chase me below it, as I run away with lots of health I would be caught in a pincer movement and again killed. I felt like a noob but is this kind of thing really counterable?

Buy the cleanse item from the shop. Cleanse yourself after a UB spits on you. PROBLEM SOLVED.

UB stunning you? Silence him. Stun him back. Slow him. The possibilities are endless.

Losing too often to a **** + UB combo? Then find a better partner, because clearly the one you are working with isn't pulling his weight.

Yep, spit isn't op for all the reasons above. In fact, I was getting stuffed repeated by oak's stun skill cause it's the same range as spit, but activates faster QQ. Still, I'd take a (minor) nerf in spit for a major increase in bestial wrath (IE, no start up + speed boost).

Quoting Haree78,

reply 15

My main issue with UB is combined with mostly any other DG he gets a garaunteed kill if he can get near another DG at the same level.

As a rook yesterday with tons of HP items and the HP favor item I could not survive the other 2 UBs would come over, both spit then take it in turns to stun me, auto attacking all the time. They just run from my partner then as I didn't do any damage to them so they weren't even slightly bothered. Impossible to counter apart from never ever getting in a position where they could do it.

It was impossible to avoid on the 2v2 map as I had to attempt to get the lowest 2 flags as it was Dominate. Also quite often 1 UB would go round the back of the top flag while another would chase me below it, as I run away with lots of health I would be caught in a pincer movement and again killed. I felt like a noob but is this kind of thing really counterable?

Don't play rook in a dominate mode on crucible then. Better yet don't play crucible. Also where was your partner during all of this? Sounds more like they were working together and your team wasn't. Overall you choose crucible the worst map with 2v2 which is the worst team size. (2v2 is basically two 1v1's going on, so whoever wins their 1v1 can help with the other 1v1 thus making the entire match about who counters you and your partner's demigod better.)

Quoting WickedDemiurge,

reply 7

Sedna's Heal is actually overpowered against UB if anything, removing Spit and healing a huge amount of damage. This can be cast on other players.

Oak's Shield removes it, heals him, and makes him immune to damage for X seconds. This can be cast on other players.

Queen's Bramble Shield has the same cooldown, costs less mana, and will prevent all the damage from a spit. This can be cast on other players.

Erebus's Mist removes Spit and makes him immune to all attacks in the game. He can then teleport out of range just by waiting till his cooldown is up.

There is a favor item which removes all negative effects.

Those are just the actual pure counters.

You also have other options, like:

Unclean Beast is has spit too, for mirror matches.

Regulus can use a combination of mines and snipe to keep a safe distance.

Torchbearer can harrass from a distance, and has a combination of stuns and interupts to help mitigate UB's damage.

Rook is better than UB in melee if specced for it, and can construct a nearly impenetrable tower wall.

Spit is not tough at all if you know how to play.

This guys knows what he is talking about. Take note of this well-developed mini essay, for it is true. Some of you simply have no concept of a counter system.

None of those counters stop UB from spitting on towers, which I think is really the only thing that may deserve a nerf. It's completely fine against players.

Quoting InfiniteVengeance,

reply 20

None of those counters stop UB from spitting on towers, which I think is really the only thing that may deserve a nerf. It's completely fine against players.

Why? Why do people have a problem with demigods getting moves that hit towers and players?

Towers die permanently. People don't.

You can heal players rather easily. Not so with towers.

Some demigods (namely the generals) have great responses to spit, and if I'm up against a general-heavy team I usually go for a completely different build, getting spit mostly for pushing towers if at all. It's the assassins that have trouble with spit. If favour items are disabled, there is no way for assassins to remove the effect, forcing them to stock up on health and regen items to counter you.

Quoting Haree78,

reply 15

My main issue with UB is combined with mostly any other DG he gets a garaunteed kill if he can get near another DG at the same level.

As a rook yesterday with tons of HP items and the HP favor item I could not survive the other 2 UBs would come over, both spit then take it in turns to stun me, auto attacking all the time. They just run from my partner then as I didn't do any damage to them so they weren't even slightly bothered. Impossible to counter apart from never ever getting in a position where they could do it.

It was impossible to avoid on the 2v2 map as I had to attempt to get the lowest 2 flags as it was Dominate. Also quite often 1 UB would go round the back of the top flag while another would chase me below it, as I run away with lots of health I would be caught in a pincer movement and again killed. I felt like a noob but is this kind of thing really counterable?

It sounds like you got screwed with a bad teammate, and overextended too much. The problem with that is UB is faster than Rook, and can interupt teleports if smart. You have a few options, assuming your teammate is bad:

1. Get a warpstone, and teleport over the small part of the gap to your base if you get ambushed in the cul de sac.

2, Start pre-teleporting if you see them coming way before they get in melee range. This wastes a little time and gold, but better that than dying.

3. Focus on earning experience and lane pushing even at the expense of war score. This can be a little dangerous, but I have won several Crucible matches where I couldn't compete early/mid game by focusing on playing a defense oriented leveling game until I had the gold and skills to win fights with enemy DGs. Remember to always grab the first money upgrade at your Citadel if playing Conquest (with the other modes it depends, but I still very much recommend it), because it always pays for itself and more.

4. Towers are generally worth it against UB, esp. early / mid game, as while he can still spit harrass you, he can't actually run into a thicket of towers until much later.

But, the fact is that you will lose the occassional game due to a teammate. Last night, I fought against two good Sednas in a 2v2 with me as Queen (I almost never play her) with a terrible UB player, who ragequit partway through. That was a guranteed loss. I did what I could and don't regret playing the whole thing, but I saw the loss coming 10+ minutes before it ended.

spit is ok mid to late its when you are level 1 to bout 10 or so. I mean i get hit 1 time i need to get back to base .

sp IMO they need to decrease the range in the beginning and increase it as you level the skill.

Also alot of abilities are kinda op early in the game as well. So what can be done?

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