If you pirated Demigod...

Quoting Deepjay,

Quoting Somazx,
reply 22

I swear it's refreshing to see the head of a company actually make almost daily highly informative, highly honest posts and keep us completely in the loop.

As much as Frogboy's approach to business is fresh and welcome .. I'm not paying for that. I want a functioning game. Nobody should feel obligated to buy the game just because it is DRM free and the devs are "good guys".

NPD numbers for last week showed the game was 3rd only after Sims and Lich King and that wasn't counting online sales. They're doing fine. Surprisingly fine.

http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/04/27/demigod-launches-strong-in-latest-top-10-best-selling-pc-game-li/

So we don't have to cry for them or how much the game is pirated either. Also considering those numbers, and other factors - I'm quite confident the launch would be little different had nobody pirated the game- in terms of all the technical issues - despite certain claims.

People need to stop this anti-piracy nonsense. Piracy is not the enemy. From the time I was 8 years old until I was twenty something I was pirating video games on the commodore 64, then amiga, then pc's and macs. I bought a few in that span, but not many. As soon as I was working and had disposable income I began spending that income on video games. I still pirate most games before buying these days. I buy probably on average two games a month and have spent thousands of dollars on video games over the past ten years or so. I also talk my friends into buying the same games I have.

It doesn't take a lot of added value to convince piraters to buy - if they can afford the game. Hassle free updates, access to robust online community, additional content releases, etc are all quite compelling - sweetening that pot is the way to go - Not villainizing, insulting and alienating them.

Good post actually, particularly this line:

It doesn't take a lot of added value to convince piraters to buy - if they can afford the game. Hassle free updates, access to robust online community, additional content releases, etc are all quite compelling - sweetening that pot is the way to go

Yes of course... lets forget the thousands of dollars he didnt pay up while playing the games he pirated.

8 to 20. Thats 12 fucking years of piracy! And hes still doing it.

I do not get how people think that pirating a game to "test it" is ok. If you want to "test" it, you can go rent it for a day, legally. Or get the demo, if avaiable. (lack of demos actualy is a failing of todays publishers. Stardock included.)

(lack of demos actualy is a failing of todays publishers. Stardock included.)

We usually do demos, just not until after release. We feel our resources are better spent making the game as good as possible for people who have already bought it or will definitely buy it. Then once it's in good shape for them, the people who need convinced can be looked after.

hmm dg is a brilliant game and i would recormmend to anyonwe to buy it haviing to pirate games just seem stupid to me

u dont really need demos i hardly played any demos for games i got there is some i wish i didn't get but most off them were gifts

Quoting TheGuildfordStrangler,

reply 4

Bought it the day after I pirated it. Wouldn't have done otherwise.

Same here. I pirate stuff because demo's are shit, and the vast majority of games are shit. I buy whats worth buying... I don't buy some random game and hope its good. I don't have the money like that, hell if I had bought Burnout: Paradise or NFS: Undercover I would have been right pissed. What a total load of crap those games were, deleted them the same day I downloaded them.

Not everybody who pirates is a cheap bastard, keep that in mind.

Quoting DoC_HammerHand,

reply 4

Same here. I pirate stuff because demo's are shit, and the vast majority of games are shit. I buy whats worth buying... I don't buy some random game and hope its good. I don't have the money like that, hell if I had bought Burnout: Paradise or NFS: Undercover I would have been right pissed. What a total load of crap those games were, deleted them the same day I downloaded them.

Not everybody who pirates is a cheap bastard, keep that in mind.

No, they're just jerks with entitlement issues.

No, they're just jerks with entitlement issues.

You say entitlement, I say empowerment.

Quoting kryo,

reply 2

(lack of demos actualy is a failing of todays publishers. Stardock included.)
We usually do demos, just not until after release. We feel our resources are better spent making the game as good as possible for people who have already bought it or will definitely buy it. Then once it's in good shape for them, the people who need convinced can be looked after.

How about you just seed your full game as a torrent. Call it the demo and not waste resources at all. While your at it, let people buy a valid key online without having to redownload the game. Just saying.

8 to 20. Thats 12 fucking years of piracy! And hes still doing it.

ZOMG! Yes, Levelheaded indeed.

Quoting Silphius,

reply 3

You just need to speak their language.

Avast Mateys.

Heave to and harken to this dire missive. Hidden booty would be better spent upon a true copy of Demigod when next ye be in port. Amnesty granted for those grizzled sea dogs who heed this warning else cursed ye be.

Forever shall ye dance the hornpipe in Hades with a glowing hot spike up ye jacksie should ye fail to cross Frogboy's palm with silver. A gold doubloon is not worth the devil's mirth and it is a bargain cheaply bought to avoid his endless jolly rogering.

Heed my words you festering bilge rats!

I laughed so hard blood was in my poo...not sure if its related or not.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 1

Yes of course... lets forget the thousands of dollars he didnt pay up while playing the games he pirated.

8 to 20. Thats 12 fucking years of piracy! And hes still doing it.

I do not get how people think that pirating a game to "test it" is ok. If you want to "test" it, you can go rent it for a day, legally. Or get the demo, if avaiable. (lack of demos actualy is a failing of todays publishers. Stardock included.)

Somazx brought up some really good points. Is it really necessary to criticize him in that tone for being so forthright with his experience? It quite contradicts your alias.

Selling an intangible product is a risky business. Exact duplicate copies can be made with virtually no effort. Pirating these copies results in potential lost sales. People who pirate and don't end up purchasing the product are making a decision not to support the people that created it.

Demos are a marketing tool, just like free samples for tangible products. Many demos are crippled in some way, which is like getting a free sample of a hamburger that is missing the buns. A pirated copy provides the full experience, unless there is a service tied to the product. Smart companies are moving in this direction.

Which companies offer a legal 1-day PC game rental in Canada? I don't know of any, and if some exist then they are most likely quite new.

I have never ever known of any company in canada that has PC game rentals, because to be honest its a bit late for that and is a silly idea by now. Anybody even remotely interested in a game, but don't know what to expect will either A. Buy the game outright with the potential to be disappointed and waste $40-$60. B. Download a demo, only experiencing a part of the game still without actually knowing sometimes wtf the game is even about (I have downloaded several demo's before that throw you in the middle of the freakin game and not have a damn clue whats going on, so I don't wate my time) C. Not buy it at all and potentially miss out on a game they may have liked. or D. Pirate it because they can, and it gives them the full (in most cases) experience of a game. Some people will buy a game after pirating it because they actually believe in supporting companies, the vast majority won't because lets face it...the games right there ready to be played (multiplayer sometimes excluded).

Honestly I don't understand why people even bother bitching about piracy, do you seriously think any pirate gives a crap what you think about what they're doing? No, because they've already gone through the process of downloading GB of content without second thought.

pirating stuf is never good it makes it worse for the companies so i usually buy try then if i hate return sofar i have return 3 games

1 i got given

2 i was asked to try

3 was pokemon (enough said)

I was amazed at the amount of people who loved the talking like a pirate gag. Thanks guys

i bought it few days after pirating, cause it's great game

Quoting Etheric,

reply 10

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 1

Yes of course... lets forget the thousands of dollars he didnt pay up while playing the games he pirated.

8 to 20. Thats 12 fucking years of piracy! And hes still doing it.

I do not get how people think that pirating a game to "test it" is ok. If you want to "test" it, you can go rent it for a day, legally. Or get the demo, if avaiable. (lack of demos actualy is a failing of todays publishers. Stardock included.)

Somazx brought up some really good points. Is it really necessary to criticize him in that tone for being so forthright with his experience? It quite contradicts your alias.

Selling an intangible product is a risky business. Exact duplicate copies can be made with virtually no effort. Pirating these copies results in potential lost sales. People who pirate and don't end up purchasing the product are making a decision not to support the people that created it.

Demos are a marketing tool, just like free samples for tangible products. Many demos are crippled in some way, which is like getting a free sample of a hamburger that is missing the buns. A pirated copy provides the full experience, unless there is a service tied to the product. Smart companies are moving in this direction.

Which companies offer a legal 1-day PC game rental in Canada? I don't know of any, and if some exist then they are most likely quite new.

I don't live in canade so i can obviously not tell you where to go. Here in germany its the same place you rent DVD's and blurays, a videothek.

Of vourse some games will never show up there (heavy drm) but the nagain: i boycot these types anyway.

As for my nick:

Since its the name that will show ingame, i choose it to display my play style. I always do this. Levelheaded - owning you calm and steady at your service.

It has nothing to do with posting my opinion on a forum.

To get back t othat 12 years thing:

He did pirate for 12 years now, and continues to. And then you people give him props because once in a while he actualy buys and pays for the thing he has used.

Its like giving props to a guy stealing cars every week, driving them around doing daily buisness then dumps them. But its ok right? once in a while he buys a car on his own. Different scale but same principle.

Patting his back for it... its simply not something i can agree to.

Jump around all you want, the fact remains: Unless you actualy go buy every game you pirate, you're doing something wrong.

True, the industriy hasn't exactly dealt well with the advent of p2p file sharing from a purely buisness point of view and true, their conduct has over the years grown considerably rude. Rootkits, massive copy protection overtures that have killed oh so many systems, requiring new installations of the os (thus violating the invioable: the integrity of the users system) and just about everything else, not to mention releasing broken games regulary.

Yes the industry has become quite neglient of the fact that its customers, aka we players are human beings who wish to be treated with at least some amount of decency.

But then again the opposite site, the customers, are just as rigid and rude in their thought and conduct. Pirating is NOT a solution to teach the publishers and develeopers a lesson. It just serves to further entrench both parties deeper into their distrust of each other which can only escalate into horrible realisations of 1984.

As a customer, your tool t otell them off is:

NOT buying it and NOT using it.

Now with some spelling bugfixes.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

I don't live in canade so i can obviously not tell you where to go. Here in germany its the same place you rent DVD's and blurays, a videothek.

Of vourse some games will never show up there (heavy drm) but the nagain: i boycot these types anyway.

Well, atleast you have that option! How much does a 1-day PC game rental cost there?

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

As for my nick:

Since its the name that will show ingame, i choose it to display my play style. I always do this. Levelheaded - owning you calm and steady at your service.

It has nothing to do with posting my opinion on a forum.

Regardless, I still thought it was pretty funny

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

To get back t othat 12 years thing:

He did pirate for 12 years now, and continues to. And then you people give him props because once in a while he actualy buys and pays for the thing he has used.

Its like giving props to a guy stealing cars every week, driving them around doing daily buisness then dumps them. But its ok right? once in a while he buys a car on his own. Different scale but same principle.

Patting his back for it... its simply not something i can agree to.

No, it isn't. The guy stealing cars is depriving their owners of the use of their vehicles.

I'm patting his back for sharing his experience, supporting the software he enjoyed, and advising companies on what to do so that others to do likewise.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

Jump around all you want, the fact remains: Unless you actualy go buy every game you pirate and enjoy, you're doing something wrong.

Fixed that for you.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

Pirating is NOT a solution t oteach the publishers and veleopers a lesson.

Piracy exposes flawed business models. It teaches companies to adapt or fail.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

It just serves to further entrench both parties deeper into their distrust of each other which can only escalate into horrible realisations of 1984.

I thought it was the terrorists that were doing that?

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

As a customer, your tool t otell them off is:
not buying it and not using it.

How can you tell them off if you haven't used it to determine whether it is worth buying? As it has already been established that time-limited rentals are not a common luxury, and many games don't even have demos, pirating is the easiest tool. And I reiterate, the only harm is a potenial loss of sale.

Quoting Etheric,

reply 16

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

I don't live in canade so i can obviously not tell you where to go. Here in germany its the same place you rent DVD's and blurays, a videothek.

Of vourse some games will never show up there (heavy drm) but the nagain: i boycot these types anyway.

Well, atleast you have that option! How much does a 1-day PC game rental cost there?

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

As for my nick:

Since its the name that will show ingame, i choose it to display my play style. I always do this. Levelheaded - owning you calm and steady at your service.

It has nothing to do with posting my opinion on a forum.

Regardless, I still thought it was pretty funny

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

To get back t othat 12 years thing:

He did pirate for 12 years now, and continues to. And then you people give him props because once in a while he actualy buys and pays for the thing he has used.

Its like giving props to a guy stealing cars every week, driving them around doing daily buisness then dumps them. But its ok right? once in a while he buys a car on his own. Different scale but same principle.

Patting his back for it... its simply not something i can agree to.

No, it isn't. The guy stealing cars is depriving their owners of the use of their vehicles.

I'm patting his back for sharing his experience, supporting the software he enjoyed, and advising companies on what to do so that others to do likewise.

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

Jump around all you want, the fact remains: Unless you actualy go buy every game you pirate and enjoy, you're doing something wrong.

Fixed that for you.

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

Pirating is NOT a solution t oteach the publishers and veleopers a lesson.

Piracy exposes flawed business models. It teaches companies to adapt or fail.

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

It just serves to further entrench both parties deeper into their distrust of each other which can only escalate into horrible realisations of 1984.

I thought it was the terrorists that were doing that?

Quoting Levelheaded,
reply 15

As a customer, your tool t otell them off is:
not buying it and not using it.

How can you tell them off if you haven't used it to determine whether it is worth buying? As it has already been established that time-limited rentals are not a common luxury, and many games don't even have demos, pirating is the easiest tool. And I reiterate, the only harm is a potenial loss of sale.

Again, you're jumping around. What you're doing is still wrong.

You are offered a service (the game). You can use it and pay for it. Or not use it, and not pay for it. If it sucks, you still can get your money back, unless you bought the game in some Josef Stalin equivalent of a gamestore.

Not buying it and not using is IS your way of telling them off. As you should know, all publishers keep track of the torrent and usenet scenes. They obviously know their sales and if you combine it you can have an estimation on how interested people are in the game.

When the game is bugged and yet pirated full bore, the publishers conclusion: well people do not care, obviously. they just are dickheads who do not want to pay up.

So youre basicly giving them the ok to go on as always, and give them the excuse of the lifetime to just not give care to their products.

But if the rampant piracy would stop and people would start not buying bugged and fucked up games, publishers would change their ways with speed and dexterity noone ever would have dreamed possible.

THAT is how buisness works. If the demand stops, the buisnes gets its fat ass into gear or dies. simple as that.

Imagine a Bakery. The guy meses up his bread everyday and fewer people buy the bread, but his storage is raided everyday and the bread is taken from him. And eaten. See, they eat it anyway, but do not pay up. Instead of like, not bloody eating it and leaving it to rot.

"Gotta eat something right?" you might say. And yes, while its true for bread, a GAME is a luxury.

You do not NEED it.

Are you such a wimp that you can't even ignore faulty products produced by people you KNOW shit out faulty products?!

Especialy in the age of internet you have the ability to look up on a game BEFORE buying it. If you find loads of "its broken!" threads for example: stay the fck away. Or hace faith and buy it and judge the produceing party based on whether they care for their product or not, but do not pirate it.

For a publisher every pirate is a customer who didn't pay up for the service rendered (playing the game, faulty or not).

If you get a broken game, go complain and demand your money back. Read up before buying it, helps a lot to avoid shitty games.

THAT is the way to do it.

VOICE your complaints.

Boycot shitty games.

Bought after pirating it too. See how this works?

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

Again, you're jumping around. What you're doing is still wrong.

That is subjective.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

You are offered a service (the game). You can use it and pay for it. Or not use it, and not pay for it. If it sucks, you still can get your money back, unless you bought the game in some Josef Stalin equivalent of a gamestore.

You can't return opened PC games in any Canadian store that I am aware of.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

Not buying it and not using is IS your way of telling them off.

How does using it matter? Not buying it is the only thing they care about.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

As you should know, all publishers keep track of the torrent and usenet scenes.

They can't effectively monitor usenet. All they can see is what is uploaded there.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

They obviously know their sales and if you combine it you can have an estimation on how interested people are in the game.

When the game is bugged and yet pirated full bore, the publishers conclusion: well people do not care, obviously. they just are dickheads who do not want to pay up.

Interest in a game doesn't mean someone would pay money for it. The "lost sales" argument is worthless.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

So youre basicly giving them the ok to go on as always, and give them the excuse of the lifetime to just not give care to their products.

Hardly. Lack of money makes it difficult to continue.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

But if the rampant piracy would stop and people would start not buying bugged and fucked up games, publishers would change their ways with speed and dexterity noone ever would have dreamed possible.

I seriously doubt that.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

THAT is how buisness works. If the demand stops, the buisnes gets its fat ass into gear or dies. simple as that.

Money IS demand. Fanboi kudos are a nice gesture, but they don't keep a business running.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

Imagine a Bakery. The guy meses up his bread everyday and fewer people buy the bread, but his storage is raided everyday and the bread is taken from him. And eaten. See, they eat it anyway, but do not pay up. Instead of like, not bloody eating it and leaving it to rot.

"Gotta eat something right?" you might say. And yes, while its true for bread, a GAME is a luxury.

Yet again, failing business and tangible product.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

Are you such a wimp that you can't even ignore faulty products produced by people you KNOW shit out faulty products?!

Your game persona sounds much more pleasant.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

Especialy in the age of internet you have the ability to look up on a game BEFORE buying it. If you find loads of "its broken!" threads for example: stay the fck away. Or hace faith and buy it and judge the produceing party based on whether they care for their product or not, but do not pirate it.

Software does not need to be broken in order for someone not to enjoy it.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

For a publisher every pirate is a customer who didn't pay up for the service rendered (playing the game, faulty or not).

This is precisely where their business model fails.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

If you get a broken game, go complain and demand your money back. Read up before buying it, helps a lot to avoid shitty games.

THAT is the way to do it.

Pirating is much easier.

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 17

VOICE your complaints.
Boycot shitty games.

Well, duh.

He did pirate for 12 years now, and continues to. And then you people give him props because once in a while he actualy buys and pays for the thing he has used.

To be fair, I did buy and rent some software in those 12 years. Whatever I could afford at the time - but that still left a huge percentage of it pirated. Also to be fair, those were different days. Until I was in my twenties I would have had to drive (I had no car) about three hours to get to the only Amiga store in the region (After my twenties there were no Amiga stores). There were no online sales, I had no credit card for mail order, etc. Accesibility to software was quite different from today. It is probably safe to say most young people today spend more on games than I ever could - and they're also still pirating.

I keep wanting to make the point that had I not had easy access to pirated software... when I was younger and poorer, that the utility of my computer would have been much lower and chances are it would never have become my hobby and the thousands I spend today are essentially a result of those early years of piracy. So in my opinion Stardock and other software companies today do business with a generation of computer users resulting from the last generation of developer's software being pirated. I think we all owe piracy a huge debt in making computers as popular as they are.

I love supporting good games/software. I relish the opportunity to vote with my dollars and pay for a great game. However it is easy to get burned in trying to identify the games you actually WANT, even if the game does function as advertised and it is quality product. There is no returning software here in Canada, once you remove the shrink wrap - your stuck with it. So I take advantage of every tool available to me before making my choices. I've spent $523.15 CDN on video games in 2009 so far - not including Demigod. Also the game is inherently multiplayer, so I have to coordinate with my gaming friends to see if they too are willing to invest. So yes, when the decision to spend another $48.03 on Demigod comes along, I'm going to make sure I really want it before buying it. In this case people are making sure they can even PLAY before they buy it - as we all know the numerous technical issues with the game so far.

I think the $500+ I've spent into this community in 2009 alone makes me a pretty good citizen of it, and greatly outweighs any "damage" caused by my "piracy" which others have argued is negligable, and I agree.

PS - I do own a legitimate copy of Demigod.

Quoting DoC_HammerHand,

reply 4

Quoting TheGuildfordStrangler,
reply 4
Bought it the day after I pirated it. Wouldn't have done otherwise.

Same here. I pirate stuff because demo's are shit, and the vast majority of games are shit. I buy whats worth buying... I don't buy some random game and hope its good. I don't have the money like that, hell if I had bought Burnout: Paradise or NFS: Undercover I would have been right pissed. What a total load of crap those games were, deleted them the same day I downloaded them.

Not everybody who pirates is a cheap bastard, keep that in mind.

So true...Burnout Paradise IS SHIT! Races are sooo easy even my twelve year old sister could beat 'em. Cars are real nice though +_+

The whole thing sucks for small developers. The mess the larger developers/publishers have been making, releasing terrible games, releasing promising games but lack proper support and some just lying about certain features and gameplay elements. The PC is in drought right now as far as quality games go and some people are fed up and I can't blame them. There was a time when it was rare not to have a demo out before the release of a PC game, now there hardly ever is. You can't even trust your favorite gaming series nowadays, they all resort to gimmicks and many lie in reviews. Its silly you can't even trust some reviews anymore, they candy coat

Take Fallout 3 for instance, game had some major problems at launch, a lot of people couldn't start the game and others couldn't

Gamespot reviews:

Demigod 6.5

Major online connectivity problems
No tutorial or story-based campaign
Only eight arenas.

Fallout 3 9.0

The story and characters can feel a bit sterile
Combat feels mildly clunky.

Yeah, the online is a major problem since thats this games primary selling point but so is a game only running on a system with proper specs for more then 5mins at a time.

People should research yes but nowadays I don't blame a person for pirating to see whether or not a game is worth a purchase or not. Piracy has always been on the PC, thats been consistent. What hasn't been consistent is the quality of games over the past few years and the developers willingness to take the extra time to release a simple demo. Btw, I am not trying to defend pirating games, it can and does severly hurt smaller developers but I can't blame anyone downloading a game to help in a purchasing decision nowadays with of the crap being released. This is why you release demos(even demos are misleading sometimes).

You can test drive a car, you can sample food, you can watch a movie trailer, you test a phone/ipod, you can try on a pair of shoes/clothes and you should be able to play a demo (an accurate one) of a game as well before purchasing.

dudes can u post a bit smaller and try gnot to quote the other peopls hole thread just mention there name and the person reading ur post can scroll up to read what u guys are pissed of argueing tlaking whatever about

Quoting Levelheaded,

reply 15

Jump around all you want, the fact remains: Unless you actualy go buy every game you pirate, you're doing something wrong.

You have to get rid of the whole right/wrong thing when arguing over piracy. IF we base our morals on the norms of society (which we usually do), we can find that pirating is quite acceptable in North America. My brother went over to Germany for a year, and he told me that y ou guys look down on piracy a lot more than we do. He also claimed that Germans found pirating over there to be quite risky with the law. Now whether that is true or not, I can tell you it is nothing like the case over here.

Yes, we have laws against piracy, but they are so slack that I rarely find anybody afraid to pirate a game, movie, etc. (especially since we've never heard of anybody getting fined for piracy around here (piracy for personal use, that is)).

Not only that, piracy has become normal in our society. Since practically everybody pirates music (at least in my surrounding generations - under the age of 25, I would say), pirating movies and games doesn't seem much different. I'm not afraid or ashamed of telling someone I pirated a program/game/movie. I find most people who haven't gotten into it ask me for advice on how to do it, and are quite willing to learn.

In North American societies, pirating is not wrong. A strong percentage of people accept piracy as a common usage of the internet.

...

Now now, I know I can't back up this argument with hard evidence - I don't have any polls or statistics showing that we actually do accept piracy as a social norm.

So, if you want to confirm what I said, you're going to have to research it yourself (I might actually do some snooping around myself now for polls or statistics).

HOWEVER, even if everything I said is bullshit, and society doesn't accept piracy no matter where in the world, we can still all agree that pirates would hold subjective moral views that it is NOT wrong to pirate a game. I know this seems obvious, but I must stress that you CANNOT argue that piracy is wrong by saying that "piracy is wrong" - this doesn't work at all in logic. I hope this is a heads up for you in future arguments.

Wow...what moral bull****. Piracy is wrong because you are taking someone else's hard work without paying for it. Period.

You are not entitled to a game little child...developers don't owe you them.

There are no garunteed purchases, everything comes with a risk of dissastifaction. Sometimes you go to a movie and don't like it...but you still pay for your two hours at the movie theater. It's how society works and is the reason there are other movies for us to go and see.

Damn man...what a crappy bunch the pc gaming community is. No only do we trash games and scream at developers for every tiny problem, but we will actually go on their forums and talk about how we steal their games and our theft isn't actually wrong and they should in fact thank us for our theft!

Some of you have serious issues if you can't honestly accept pirating is wrong. If you don't care, dont have the money, ect thats one thing...but actually pretending it's ok? Sheeesh...talk about moral deprivaty...

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