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Demigod: Day 8 Status Report!

By on April 23, 2009 8:56:38 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

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Me (Draginol is my other handle) and my friend at GPG working on a problem

So today we got a pretty good new update from Gas Powered Games that we’ve been testing with today.

A lot of the changes have to do with tolerances. How much time should the game wait for others to join before it assumes they’re too slow and kicks them out before the game even starts? How much time should it wait for someone to join a lobby or a game before it says “No, they’re not going to get in?” and blocks them?

So today we played a lot of games with the new build and saw a lot of improvements. Thanks to tricks we’ve picked up from last week when the servers were being crushed, we have gotten a lot better at simulating peek server hours where the connection stuff is most likely to fail.

Right now, the issue we’re trying to fix is where people join a custom game and because they joined at the same time, they are not connected to each other.   That’s what we’re play testing right now and the results look very promising.

Developing games is like a strategy game

Like a strategy game, I’m in the unpleasant position of having to make choices on what people work on and what doesn’t.

If, by now, you have concluded that Demigod is an unusual game in many ways, you’re right.  Typically, the publisher (Stardock) releases the game, collects data and sends them off to the game’s developer (Gas Powered Games) and waits for a “patch” which the publisher then puts through QA and then releases.

Demigod, as you probably have surmised, has been developed differently.  Early last year, I pushed for Demigod to have more single-player elements. But over time, it became clear that everyone involved (at both Stardock and GPG) really enjoyed it more as a multiplayer game.  But in my mind, if you’re going to do that, you need to have lots of cool things like match making, and tournament stuff and long-term expandability.

That’s where Stardock started getting involved in development little by little. At first, it was just a single developer. Then another, and then another.  Pretty soon, we were adding overlays to present more player data, developing a friends list and other community features along with a multiplayer match-making, pantheon stuff, etc.

Stardock and GPG get along great. But you are talking about two veteran development teams working on some pretty sophisticated stuff at great distances.  That’s where I’ve increasingly become involved in pressing both Stardock and GPG development teams on what needs to go in when.  So if you have an issue with Demigod, don’t blame anyone but me because since the game’s release, I’ve essentially taken on the overall development prioritization for good or ill.

Ramifications

So for example, we know that most people can connect to other people. We know this for a fact. The problem is that for a significant percentage of people, it’s #$%# flakey. 

You know what I mean. You set up a custom game and it becomes a fiasco getting people into that custom game because people aren’t connected. Or you try to get a pantheon game going and players get kicked out or you end up with 2 on 2 with a bunch of bots.  Or the same thing with skirmish.

And then there’s the people who just get NAT failed messages or who just can’t connect no matter what.

I’ve gotten a lot of email telling me that I’m “killing Demigod” because I keep making things out to be “worse than they are”.  It’s not my job to paint a happy picture. I’m an engineer, not a marketer. And I hang out enough on the chat channel and on the forums to know that the problems mentioned above are real, must be addressed ASAP!

So anyway, during this week the big architecture change going on is the UDP proxy server setup.  But IT has told me that it will take a few days to do proper load testing on it (i.e. what happens when there’s 20,000 people on there?) 

But the tactical things I’ve been focusing Stardock/GPG onto this week are fixing the connection issues for those who play but find the game flakey, making Pantheon and Skirmish not have bots in them if people have experience, working on the favor point tracking, etc. 

Since I have only N developers at Stardock and M at GPG, that means that if I’m focusing them on those things, other things will go more slowly (including the Proxy stuff).

Tonight’s build is being tested

So like on Tuesday, we do have a new build, this one much more significant because it includes a new Demigod.exe too, but we’re testing it and since it’s 9pm as I write this, it’s not a good idea to put it up this late so it looks like it’ll be tomorrow.

Status Updates long term

I’ve read comments that some people do like these status reports.  Since we’re starting to come to the end of the serious connection problems (it may not seem like to some externally but it really is getting pretty close) I was wondering if people would like to continue to see these things when we start to talk about ideas for new Demigods, new items, new multiplayer modes, how you’d like to see clans and groups and friends handled.  I really don’t mind doing these but obviously don’t want people to get sick of reading these walls of text.

Cheers all and see you tomorrow!

+912 Karma | 116 Replies
April 23, 2009 9:03:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Much appreciated.  Seriously.

 

and for those who're getting upset with things as they sit right now, I say this;  Relax!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N1_0SUGlDQ

Listen to this song and sing along with it and you'll feel a lot better

 

April 23, 2009 9:05:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I for one certainly like to hear what you guys are doing/working on.  Seeing what new stuff is coming is exciting.

April 23, 2009 9:06:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Cool. Any word on the South East Asia Region proxy servers being set up in Singapore?

April 23, 2009 9:09:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I love walls of text when there is something on that wall worth reading . Keeping up with this kind of communcation with the community about new ideas and future updates to Demigod would be excellent. More Wall-O-Text please!

April 23, 2009 9:10:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would love to keep getting status reports like this.  One of my favorite things about DotA lately is that the main guy behind it, Icefrog, has a blog about the development of the game that he posts to periodically, and you can leave comments to him about it.  I think it's a great idea, and builds a deeper connection between the developer and the user base.  It builds loyalty, and feeling goodness, and all that fun stuff .

 

I think the thing I'd like to see most besides connectivity being fixed is the ability to save replays of games.  I know when I started getting into seriously playing DotA, replays were invaluable for me learning how to play certain heroes, learning about map control, where to place wards, and so forth.  I remember a specific one of a match between MyM and SK where while I could point out things while watching where individually the players could have done something better, when it came to teamwork their co-ordination was amazing, and the combos they were pulling off I wouldn't have even thought of, unless I had seen that replay.  It changed the way I played a character completely, and opened up new styles of play.  I'm sure you've received a lot about adding in replay support already, so this is another vote for that at some point.

 

Thank you again for writing these, I'm checking every day now for them because I really enjoy reading them.

April 23, 2009 9:12:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Get some sleep Brad - your doing a great job and antone with an ounce of commen sense knows that. Re the updates post MP fixes, I think it's a great idea. I'm sure constructive player input can only help improve what is otherwise a great game. Thanks for taking the time to keep us players in the loop. I have never encountered a developer/publisher as committed to the fan base. As always, SD sets themselves apart from the pack - just don't get swallowed up by one of the giant publishers. We need someone crusading for the little guy (or gals).

April 23, 2009 9:17:36 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I was able to play 2 Pantheon games today. That's hellva lot better then the other day 

April 23, 2009 9:20:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If someone is too lazy or has some mental probles that cause his head to hurt whenever looking at a post that is longer then three short sentences, he doesn't realy have to read it.

But for us, who don't have such problems, those regular updates from you are very valusable. It shows us that you are there, remeber about us and care for us. It is extreamly popular that developers keep quiet about the issues that community is pointing out, and when they speek, they are talking about something on totaly different topic then the ona that actualy interests the community. Informed community is a happy community... or something like that.

As for myself, i am looking forward to read your reports every day. Even tho i don't have a valid copy of Demigod yet (blame Atari), i am  looking forward to see problems solved since we will all benefit from that.

Keep up reporting, it's worth it

April 23, 2009 9:20:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Brad, keep the updates coming!  Part of me always wishes that I became a game developer, and reading these update posts is very insightful, and helps give an inside look on how the development process really operates.  

 

In short, it is extremely satisfying hearing things straight from the "horse's" mouth, as opposed to marketing and PR telling us what they think the horse meant to say.  

April 23, 2009 9:22:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

They must be dedicated!  The Red Wings are playing and they are working!

 

Marv

 

April 23, 2009 9:23:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Please get the replays system working ASAP! I don't wanna get canned for not being able to show replays !

Keep up the good work!

April 23, 2009 9:27:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I worked in support at Google, so I know how hard it can be to release details during a release and fix cycle, but good job.

 

I would love to hear all the details and game design decisions sound fascinating, since I'm sure everything has to be iterated on a lot to feel right.

April 23, 2009 9:30:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I love these status updates, keep them coming!

April 23, 2009 9:37:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I absolutely LOVE these reports. Shows us you're working, keeps us in the loop. It's how government should work Keep up the good work!

April 23, 2009 9:49:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Putting up some sort of developer blog where you respond to feedback from the player community is invaluable. If it stays as a post in these forums that's cool too.

 

People love hearing what's coming next and they love being heard by you. Keep it up!

April 23, 2009 9:51:44 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting killerqueen33,
I absolutely LOVE these reports. Shows us you're working, keeps us in the loop. It's how government should work Keep up the good work!

Not that it matters, being British and all but....Frogboy for president!

April 23, 2009 9:54:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Definately keep the status reports coming, love hearing about what's going on.  Also kinda makes you feel like your part of the team, getting kept up to date on stuff. 

 

If you stop doing them I might cry.

April 23, 2009 9:55:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

More text Wall please

April 23, 2009 10:01:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ya the updates are lovely. Ill trade them for a functioning game.

April 23, 2009 10:06:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ya the updates are lovely. Ill trade them for a functioning game.

Not to be crass but you do realize the game does function right? The problems in these blogs have to do with the included match making system being flakey but the game functions. Even multiplayer the LAN works great and I've played using GameRanger online fine and even the regular built in custom games work pretty good for me as well.

I just think it's a bit of a slap in the face to the people working night and day on this to say the game doesn't "function" because that's right up there with the people who think the game is "broken" because they don't like how a particular Demigod plays or something.

April 23, 2009 10:08:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the updates.   Keep 'em coming.

April 23, 2009 10:10:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think these status reports are great!  It really gives us, the players, insight as to what goes on behind the scenes.  I have never seen other devs/publishers do anything like this.  It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy..REALLY.

I can't say that about any other game companies, ever. 

I think that we as PC gamers have gotten used to being the redheaded step child in the last few years, as consoles have become so mainstream.  This is the exact opposite feeling I get with Stardock/GPG with this title, and it feels nice for a change.

April 23, 2009 10:17:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah keep up with the status reports, it's what other games don't do enough of - people will be much more forgiving for problems if you keep them updated with your support.

April 23, 2009 10:20:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

  I expect once the major issues are sorted the updates need not be daily, but please do continue updating us regularly.  It would be great to allow the community to mull over additions to the game before you guys expend the resources adding them.


I do fear the flame wars will be epic once we get to adding features, items, DG's, etc... but I'm ready to battle for the good ideas!    

April 23, 2009 10:24:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

FYI, DDO (dungeons and dragons online) did a similar thing, their "State of the game" reports and updates were very good and quite frequent.

 

In addition to that, they kept a list of known issues/bugs etc - so you might want to consider that as well.

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