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[Balance] Items that currently suck

By on March 7, 2009 7:51:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just thought I'd make a post about these since they don't seem to become any better.

Glovesinv

Gaunlets of Despair

These things give way to little for their costs. 350 mana and a low chance to get a very small amount of mana does not really deserve the 1750 gold, especially since the Wyrmskins are cheaper and much more useful.

I suggest that they either have a higher chance to drain mana (40%, so every 2.5 hits) or that they add some damage.

Doomspite Grips

For a near artifact cost, this gives very few stuff. The ability is unlikely to be of use as creeps die easily anyway and using a near-artifact cost item just in case of fighting two DGs together is a suicide. Suggestion, Increase the extra dmg to +60 and the speed to +15%

Boots

Footman's Sabatons

For 600 gold you get half a spell and extra HP for one hit from most level 1 DGs. Either reduce the cost to 200 or increase the bonuses to +300 Hp, +400 Mana.

Iron Walkers

For such a cost, this item should make minions fearsome. I suggest upping the minion armor to 500 at least and the health to +10 per sec. This way you might be able to send you minions alone somewhere. They still won't be doing much damage but at least they might be holding a position.

Desperate Boots

This is a good concept but the cost seems too steep. I think this should be more playtested to see how well it works but from an initial view, I believe the cost should be 4000 or the dodge 30%

Journeyman's Treads

Again a very steep cost for an item with a gimmick and low raw stats. With just 1500 gold you get almost the same stats through 2 items without the gimmick. Now I don't think the gimmick ability is really worth 5000 gold. I suggest to boost the stats to +1500 health, +20% speed and make the gimmick activate 10% of the time.

Armor

Duelist Cuirass

For this cost the stats are low and the ability weak. With 2500 I could be getting the two first armors (with extra stats than this gives) and the wyrmskin gloves, which we all know how nasty they are.

Suggestion: Increase armor given to 550 and the ability should activate at 15%

Platemail of the Crusader

Seriously, the ability might as well not be there. So 1 in every 100 hits will give me back enough health to survive another (half) hit from a Demigod. Seriously underwhelming.

For this cost, the ability should be activating at 5% at least and even more depending on playtesting.

Groffling Warplate

Same as above. Ability is even worse as well. I think this one should be at around 7%

Helmets

Anything that gives +% of mana per second

They do not seem to work very well. I've once tried two items giving me +100% mana regeneration and it did squat. Do these need to be combined with another item giving raw mana per sec?

Theurgist's Cap

Stats you can get cheaper with other items. Minion health boosting is not useful as nobody bothers with killing them anyway. Special ability is not very helpful as native manage and health regeneration are slow anyway and in 10 seconds it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Suggestion: Increase the chance to 10% and outright stop mana and health regen for 10 secs.

Consumables

Restorative Scroll

Which effects exactly affect your army usualy? The only one that most people use is the effect of smacking the crap out of them until they die. Added bonus, it does not help the DG himself so it's utterly useless. Unless you're thinking of adding more effects that affect armies, this should either help the DG as well or so something else entirely.

Hex Scroll

Has anyone used it? Does it work? Because from reading it, it's just not worth the money. Cost should either be 200 or damage reduction should be 50%

 

Trinkets

Sludge Slinger

While this item is cheap, it does very little. 30% reduce in attack speed for 7 seconds is simply lost by the time your caster needs to move into position and actually do the action (so losing at least two attacks). So a 30% decrease in 7 seconds means that the opponent will lose 1-2 attacks as well.

This could be improved by having a much higher range so that a support DG can use it from afar. 25 yrds should be good. The slowdown should also stay for at least 15 secs to make any difference.

Nature's Reckoning

With 1500 cost, this should be as powerful as the Wyrmskins but imho it isn't. It basically gives you enough mana to cast one more spell if you're out,  compared to the always +15 dmg of the wyrmskin. The random effect does 250 damage @ 15% of the time, compared to 100 damage and the very powerful slowdown at 20%.

This could be improved by upping the percentage to 25%, so 1 in 4 hits will do an extra 250 dmg.

Twig of Life

A minion health item. Considering that nobody bothers in killing minions, this does not really help and in any case, 100 extra health is nothing. I can't really think how this could be useful as healing you whole army for 33% does not help when most units die at one hit.

Suggestion. On activation, make your whole army (minions and creeps) invincible for 5 secs. Increase the cooldown to 2 minutes.

Alternatively, make the health bonus apply to your whole army (not just minions) and increase it to 200 Hp.

Ring of the Ancients

Ok for 3500 cost, this gives 400 Armor and +30 Damage. I can get +600 armor and +25 Dmg with 2 items at 800 gold so obviously this one is severely underpowered. If it's meant to simply give raw stats, the up the Armor to 1000 and the damage to 50.

Orb of Defiance.

For 3750 cost I would expect somethign more than I can get for 1000 and an ability that's not going to be of much use the way the game works right now. Sure, you might save your life for 5 seconds but you only delay the inenvitable most likely as this kind of time is not enough for anyone to come and save you.

Suggestions

  • Allow invincible character to move and attack (no abilities).
  • Increase the invincibility to 15 secs, make an automatic ping be placed on your position for your team to see and allow the effect to be canceled (in case you need to move before 15 secs have passed)

Parasite Egg

With minions not being worth so much the effort, the high cost and ability of this item make it not worth the trouble. If minions become better, perhaps this will be more useful but I doubt it at such a cost.

As it is such a gimmick item, I suggest that you simply reduce the cost to 2500.

Idols

Please see my other thread

 

So that's all for now. Hopefully making these items less sucky might allow people to play with more than 10 items

 

 

+7 Karma | 9 Replies
March 8, 2009 9:32:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree with pretty much everything on here.  Alot of them just plain suck for the cost and are neglected. 

March 9, 2009 12:09:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The Nature's Reckoning in my opinion is quite good... I don't know how many times i've seen it chain proc during a fight when I'm TB. I recommend a nerf of the proc damage to 200 myself. It's also aoe, so anyone nearby gets this shock, effectively destroying most creep waves in seconds later game.

March 9, 2009 3:16:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

+% mana regen items do work.  Plenor Battlecrown is usually one of the first items I buy (I like to play casters), as it has a significant effect on both my max mana and mana regen.  Especially when I usually end up buying Hungarling's Crown later in the game.  You can observe the effect by buying this item, opening the stats window and right-clicking to drop it on the ground while watching our mana reading.

I also think Platemail of the Crusader is worth its price, even with the useless special ability.  The HP regen and armor bonuses are very nice, and as a general the minion bonuses don't hurt either.

I'm not sure if it's really fair to compare a single item against a pair of items.  The cost of the single item saves you one slot where you can put something else.

March 9, 2009 5:01:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The Nature's Reckoning in my opinion is quite good... I don't know how many times i've seen it chain proc during a fight when I'm TB.

Fair enough, I haven't actually playtested the item. I think more games should be payed with it to test and especially experienced players should give it a go and see how well it works against other experienced players

It's also aoe, so anyone nearby gets this shock, effectively destroying most creep waves in seconds later game.

Creep waves of simple soldiers are destroyed in seconds by anyone in the late game. I doubt it will kill Angels (who fly around) and giants (who have quite more than 250hp and hit few times but hard) though

 

I'm not sure if it's really fair to compare a single item against a pair of items. The cost of the single item saves you one slot where you can put something else.

That is true, but does is this added benefit worth 1-2k more?

 

March 9, 2009 12:21:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Gaunlets of Despair -These used to be first or second item buy for me.  Right now, you are correct - they are useless.  Increase mana gain to 1k or mana drain to 20% chance and 300 mana. 

Doomspite Grips - the price was increased on these mainly to make stacking damage increases harder with Fel-Darkur, afaik.  It really is too expensive, though, just farm for a couple of minutes and get an artifact instead.

Duelist Cuirass - the stats and price on this item are perfect, imo, especially if you are stacking critical strike chance. 

Orb of Defiance - this item is very useful as is.  Capping defended portal flags and a couple of other things make Defiance a beautiful tactical item. 

Otherwise I agree with your points.  You should do one of these for favor items ^^

March 9, 2009 12:32:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The Orb is really the only one I disagree with you on here.  KeStrel is correct.  I understand what you are saying about it, but you just haven't seen how it can be used effectively.

March 9, 2009 2:52:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmm, you're right. I'd never considered this use of the Orb. Under this light it does become more useful and tactical.

March 10, 2009 12:45:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You have good points, but you could accomplish many of your suggested "value" fixes by just nerfing Wyrmskin Gauntlets.

 

And they do desperately need a nerf.  I'm thinking 3-4x as expensive.

March 10, 2009 7:51:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Definitely, regarding Wyrmskin Gauntlets. And btw, when i said later game i didn't mean endgame where people do 300+ damage a swing. I mean mid-game I suppose. ^^b

Also noting: About the angels, they have a bit over 750 hp if i remember right? So they wouldn't be killed, but it's a nice bonus.

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