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Demigod enters the final stretch

By on March 7, 2009 7:28:31 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The long beta program draws to a close.  This has been the most challenging game I’ve worked on yet.

The biggest part of the challenge has been the evolution of betas in the PC game industry.  Stardock has been doing public betas of its games since 1993 when the OS/2 version of Galactic Civilizations went into beta.  We’ve always done it the same way – we put the betas out very early, very buggy, very non-fun and incorporate feedback into the game.

For many years, no one else had these beta programs. But in the last couple of years, someone decided (wrongly IMO) that a public beta program would be a good marketing exercise.  The problem is that when people joined the Demigod beta, many of them had only experienced those marketing betas which weren’t true betas.

Stardock betas have worked like this for eons:

Beta 1: Buggy/Sucky.

Beta 2: Less Buggy/Sucky.

Beta 3: Less Buggy/AWESOME.

When we did Sins of a Solar Empire, a lot of the beta testers came from the Galactic Civilizations world so they already knew how we worked. The Sins betas were actually a lot rougher than the Demigod betas because we had far fewer resources between us (Stardock/Ironclad).  But most beta testers understood it was a beta and the game came together in the last month before release and has gone on to win tons of Game of the Year awards (like Galactic Civilizations II did before it).

With Demigod, however, being a very different game than GalCiv or Sins, we mostly had people who had never been in a Stardock beta.  Many had been familiar with Supreme Commander and its “beta” (which was a marketing beta where the game was largely done).  So when they picked up Demigod betas, they found that the game was buggy and utterly sucked.  In Beta 1 and 2, we intentionally messed with values in order to make the game not fun so that players would focus on the parts we cared about (beta 1 – engine, beta 2 – network). 

So as Beta 3B has made clear, yea, it has all come together.  Suddenly there’s a growing buzz that hey, Demigod might be the strategy game to beat this year (if we can get websites to quit listing it as an RPG <g>). 

It’s not beta testers fault though. The PC game industry needs to stop having those marketing betas because they completely alter the perception of what a real beta is and what the goals.  This Spring, we’re going to start the Elemental beta nearly a year before release. We are currently planning to not even have the graphics engine in Beta 1 but rather have players play on the cloth map so that we can drive home the point that betas aren’t supposed to be fun, they’re supposed to be solving specific problems.

Next week, we’re going to have a beta 3C.  It’ll be even better than beta 3B but still, no where near as fun as the release date game will be.  The thing to remember here is that Stardock and GPG are privately held companies. We’re in this for the game. We don’t have public shareholders to satisfy. We just want to make an awesome game.  Hopefully, players are now able to see what our goals were with these latest betas and like where we’re going.  And like all our other games, the release date version of the game is only the beginning.

 

Screenshots taken on my Thinkpad laptop (great graphics that don’t require mega hardware)

 

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+912 Karma | 13 Replies
March 7, 2009 8:01:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, I for one hadn't participated in the Sins or Galciv Beta (I own and love both, and desperately looking forward to Elemental), but I follow enough of your posts to know that you were serious when you said the Demigod beta would suck

I must say though, the game really has come a long way and I'm quite impressed. Keep up the good work.

March 8, 2009 5:50:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy, please don't change your beta policy. It is a proven commodity, and it works.

I picked up GalCiv2 at retail, just after it was released, and have participated in every beta that you have offered. From that day to this I wouldn't consider any of them either "buggy" or "sucky".

You shouldn't worry so much about what other people say. Grow a thicker skin and excersize your middle finger.

 

 

 

March 8, 2009 5:56:39 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I was one of the victims of an early, buggy, GalCiv beta.

I also tried the Sins beta quite early on, thought it was too rough at the time and needed a bunch more polish. But having seen the progress on the GalCiv beta, I knew what to expect.

The most egregious abuse of the "beta" tag of late, in my opinion, was the multiplayer "beta" of Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II. I believe there may have been two whole days between the opening of the beta to preorders and the day they announced the game had gone gold.

Oh, but the beta wasn't over, oh no! There was still a more open phase of the multiplayer beta to go...

I don't think that it's just that that's the problem. I think you also have people like me who do know what real beta testing can entail and thus they see these huge issues in "your" games during the beta, but they don't necessarily go around with as much fervency debunking the doom and gloomers as the doom and gloomers do. So a lot of what people might see on the forums is Newcomer X saying the game ate their entire house, but it's just you, the "big boss man" saying that that is an extremely rare (and unlikely!) bug.

So to an outsider, house eating seems common, when in reality it's quite rare and all the people who haven't had their house eaten just haven't thought it worth mentioning.

And on a sidenote - Spring? Really? I was figuring more like Fall. Looking forward to it in all its cloth-y glory.

March 8, 2009 8:57:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great stuff. Can't wait for your Elemental beta, think it will be a lot calmer!

March 8, 2009 9:07:47 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I really like how you dont need expensive hardware to run games from you guys. Its really refreshing compared to some recent games (cough empire cough)

March 8, 2009 11:43:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Betas: They suck, so that released games don't have to.

 

(So why do so many companies seem to think that beta = release candidate?)

March 8, 2009 1:18:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Way too many betas are just glorified multiplayer demos; in fact, most people have come to expect them to be that way, and just use betas to try out the game.  I'm glad Stardock is sticking to the real-beta approach .

March 8, 2009 4:32:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The more I look at this game the more I find it ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!!!!

At first I was like...yeah so you got a little island of a battlefield, but the more you read reviews and the more you WANT IT BADDDDDD....Can't w8 for final release (too occupied with sins and Empire:Total War) to add it to my collection!

Demigod FTW!!!!

March 9, 2009 2:46:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This Spring, we’re going to start the Elemental beta nearly a year before release. We are currently planning to not even have the graphics engine in Beta 1 but rather have players play on the cloth map so that we can drive home the point that betas aren’t supposed to be fun, they’re supposed to be solving specific problems.

Will the ability to play the full game on the cloth map available on the final product?

March 9, 2009 12:08:44 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Yes it will, Peace. 

March 9, 2009 5:07:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

While the industry's recent use of "beta" as "demo with an excuse for any/all issues" isn't helping, I don't think your use of the word for your early versions is much more accurate. I'm not sure your early "beta" versions even qualify for "alpha"

March 12, 2009 1:07:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It was really nice to be able to follow along in the game development. When I first played demigod it was so buggy I could barely stand playing the game. So i waited for the next version and stardock did enough improvements to the game that I could actually play without wanting to shove my fist into the monitor. Now I love the game and can't wait for the finished product.

Demigod FTW!!!!!

March 17, 2009 12:23:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

We are currently planning to not even have the graphics engine in Beta 1 but rather have players play on the cloth map so that we can drive home the point that betas aren’t supposed to be fun, they’re supposed to be solving specific problems.

 

Hey, Frogboy, I have a solution:  stop making the early 'not-fun' betas so much fun to play!    I'm sory, but I enjoyed Demigod betas one and two (I haven't done much with three, to be honest I burned out).  I also enjoyed every single stage of Sins testing, even as I neared burnout towards the end.  (Thank god the release version was so different from everything up to beta 4, almost like a whole new game at times!)

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