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+Minion damage needs to change

By on February 28, 2009 6:54:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The +Minion damage abilities, whether from Morale or from items, is horribly overpowered when used by Oak or Erebus.  It's not so bad for the summoners like Queen and Sedna because they're limited to 4 minions at a time.  Oak and Erebus, however, can crank out their minions.

If you have +50 minion damage, for Erebus at 18 night walkers that's a +900 damage boost.  For Sedna, it's +200.

My friends and I rolled up a couple 3v5 nightmare AI games to test the cheese .  First game I played Oak and maxed out SPirits and Morale first, to devastating effect.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6420/62935690.jpg

 

The second game I tried as Erebus.  We all played him, but I was the only one to go straight Coven / Morale / Improved Conversion, the others played other builds.  Look at the difference:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5020/op2x.jpg

 

+19 Karma | 8 Replies
February 28, 2009 7:02:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have played a 2v5 game against nightmares and pwned all.

February 28, 2009 7:47:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It seems as though there is an actual bug with +damage on minions. With a totem of war alone, a QoT with 8 minions can solo a 15000 hp fort in a matter of 30 seconds.

February 28, 2009 9:08:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

isnt the difference between sedna and erebus and even oak is that sedna is a support more than anything else?

i dont have the game, but if thats the case it kinda makes sense.

February 28, 2009 11:24:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The QoT is in the same boat as Sedna, gkrit, and she's not a support demigod like Sedna.

The problem isn't that Oak gets more than Sedna or whatnot.  The problem is, with the way it scales, I can instagib any demigod of my choice, including the Rook.  Not only that, but all I have to do is grab some Spirits, charge straight at their base, and level theri Citadel before they can mount a defense.

 

 

March 1, 2009 5:52:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It seems as though there is an actual bug with +damage on minions. With a totem of war alone, a QoT with 8 minions can solo a 15000 hp fort in a matter of 30 seconds.

That bug is exclusive to Totem of War or better Totem of War doesn't do what the tooltip says but something a lot better.

March 1, 2009 6:48:54 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I agree with basics of what you are saying but, the minions get pawned in any pvp game for instance hammer slam will kill all you minions as will mines, fire nova, wave of spikes, post mortem/plauge. so its unlikley they will even survive the first few seconds of an encounter the exception being rook's minions since they seem to fly in a pretty large are and most avoid the aoe. If you then couple this with the fact the AI is retarded even on nightmare level and dont use AOE or even target properly switching between minions and the player to spread damg etc.

You should do a 3v5 human with all human players with the 3 ppl all abusing minions and post the results.

To be honest as someone who tends to prefer the general class i would rather have minions that are harder and won't die from a single aoe spell but have reduced damage or less of them...

March 2, 2009 9:13:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Braindead,
I agree with basics of what you are saying but, the minions get pawned in any pvp game for instance hammer slam will kill all you minions as will mines, fire nova, wave of spikes, post mortem/plauge. so its unlikley they will even survive the first few seconds of an encounter the exception being rook's minions since they seem to fly in a pretty large are and most avoid the aoe. If you then couple this with the fact the AI is retarded even on nightmare level and dont use AOE or even target properly switching between minions and the player to spread damg etc.

You should do a 3v5 human with all human players with the 3 ppl all abusing minions and post the results.

To be honest as someone who tends to prefer the general class i would rather have minions that are harder and won't die from a single aoe spell but have reduced damage or less of them...

 

This is a good point, and something I had planned on doing.  I had played a game of myself (Oak going Minions) vs my friend playing Torchbearer, which I thought would be a good matchup.  I told him in advance the precise tactic I was going to be using so he knew exactly what to expect and was able to plan ahead to try to counter it.

While he was obviously more effective than the AI, I pushed him back every encounter we had.  He was forced to play defensively losing ground the entire game, because he simply could not counteract the spirits.  Even when he was able to take them down, they were very reasy for me to replace.  When he tried to push forward, I could send my spirits after him and he was left with two options:  1. Stay and continue his spell(s) and die  or 2. Run.

Like I said, he did fare better than the computer, and we did only play a few games with him tweaking his strats, but it was never really any contest.  Note that it's not that he sucks, when I'm playing Oak with another build or another Demigod, it's about 50/50.  When I play Oak this way, I haven't lost yet.

I still need to play more online against various people, though.

March 5, 2009 4:33:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Perhaps the spammable minions should gain reduced benefit from items?  You have a good point about the scaling on these going crazy with large minion numbers.

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