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Why the Credit Bureaus Can't Get It Right

Smart Money does a report...

By on February 3, 2009 1:18:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental ForumsExternal Link

Normally I would not pimp a story without any direct relevance to gaming or gamers, in general, but this story is very worthy in my not so humble opinion and warrants thoughtful consideration on the part all forum members. This is especially so given the current economic state-of-affairs within America.

Having been a victim of erroneous on my report a several years ago, which required me to make an extreme and costly effort to resolve, I can't say I'm amazed that the system has not changed much since then. I sincerely hope the Obama administration will take action on such issues soon.

+171 Karma | 26 Replies
February 3, 2009 2:06:33 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Fairly interesting read.  Credit scores and the errors within them have been around for years and years, and always will be, even if "Obama the Savior" and his administration try to fix it.  Especially when the process is multiplied by 3.  I couldnt imagine how long it would take if you had an error that appeared on all 3 of your sub scores, because you do have to correct them independently.  Luckily, I've never had to deal with an error.

 

On the flip side, what I find AMAZING, is how people do not check credit scores at least once a year.  I didnt see a statistic in that story, nor do I know the number, but I would be willing to bet a very large percentage of errors that are found are not seen until you need your score, for a house or a loan, etc.  A lot of heartburn and anxiety could be avoided by monitoring your score at least annually, as opposed to waiting until you need a new car or are trying to move into a new house and then entering in the "credit score lottery".  I have friends at various lending institutions, and they can tell you all kinds of great horror stories of people who blindly come in for financing and then ask them, "Hey, so whats my credit score?"  Now I understand you don't look at your score everyday, that would be kinda silly, but how can you not know what it is before you go and make a major financial decision like that?

 

I've somewhat considered actually seeing what the costs and advantages (if any) are of subscribing to a credit score monitoring service, but have yet to do it.  Anyone have any experience with one of those?

February 3, 2009 2:21:42 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

What does our President have to do with this story, again?

February 3, 2009 2:37:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't really understand how "pimp" came to be a verb that describes something that seems closer to cheerleading, but that's a swell summary of a complicated and very important subject. And it's a swell example of how private bureaucracies can screw people as seriously, or even more so, than government ones. Scale, complexity, and opacity are the real risk indicators for an organization, not the simple public-private distinction.

Re Piznit's remarks about keeping an eye on your own credit back yard, this Obama voter has to agree, but probably for other reasons. The higher your wealth and career aspirations, the less of an excuse you have for not taking care of your 'financial hygiene.' My real worry about the increasing pervasiveness of the credit bureau triopoly is that this danged inner-net will end up making screwed up reports matter for folks who've always lived hand-to-mouth and never even opened up a Fingerhut account. If the reports get cheap enough, you could get one run on you for a minimum-wage job app. Heck, that might even already be true.

February 3, 2009 4:19:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Most of the monitoring services are about $15 a month and I believe they claim to give you "personalized service" if errors are detected.One can get better deals if they are part of a group membership program. For example I'm a USAA member and we only have to pay about $5.50 a month for monitoring.

Personally speaking I think such things should be government controlled if they are deemed essential to society. The current systems has many inherent conflicts of interest and the agencies charging people to get reports in addition to the cost one must incur to correct any issues that are not their fault is yet another big huge one.

Regarding the question as to what the Obama administration can do about it, well the short answer is plenty to be sure. For example, if he was so motivated, he could nationalize the agencies with an executive order if he wanted. The chance of this happening is about nil but he has the power and fear of that power is what would make the agencies change if they were sure he would wield it.

February 3, 2009 6:33:09 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

The scary thing is that this kind of information is used far beyond anything related to your credit. If you have a security clearance then your credit information is not only used to determine your credit worthiness but is also used for totally unrelated information such as verification of where you lived during specific time periods among other things. Also this same information is often used for general pre-employment "background" checks and you can be denied employment for any kind of discrepancy, even one that is inconsequential to the credit bureau.

For example I've been with my current employer for 5 years and they require background checks when hired and periodically every 5 years. The thing is that they don't do these background checks themselves but contract the work to 3rd party companies who in turn subcontract to other companies who actually canvas the credit bureaus along with the DMV and other sources of public domain information. By the time all is said and done if a discrepancy shows up you need to track back through three seperate companies only to be eventually told that the incorrect information must have come from one (they won't say which one) of credit bureaus and so you also need to pull your credit report from all three. Even then once you do this and all three credit bureaus do not have the incorrect information there's no recourse.

In my case the discrepancy was as simple as the dates that I lived at a particular address. When I was hired I reported where I had lived for the last 10 years along with a plethora of other information. At that time it all checked out and every thing was fine. However 5 years later someone got the mistaken idea that the address that I lived at during the single year of 1995 was somehow in some unspecified way "active" in 2008 as well. Like I mentioned I traced back through 3 levels of contractors only to be told that the source of the information was a credit report. So I pulled all three reports and none of them showed anything that one could consider as indicating "activity" at a 13 year old address. When I questioned the credit bureau about it they couldn't even understand why I was asking about such a thing because it had no bearing on my credit score and even they could not vouch as to the source or validity of the address information. They also said that technically such information cannot be used for anything beyond determining someone's credit. Try telling that to the DoD and good luck with that.

I could have been fired for this discrepancy and if I had been I would have had no recourse. Luckily one of the intermediate contracting agencies had done the same check 5 years previously and that address had checked out as being inactive at that time for at leat 8 years and even they realized that a report of activitity at a 13 year old address must be a mistake.

February 11, 2009 11:06:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Whilst it might not be true, I remember reading that if you check your credit score too often it can actually decrease it.  As can not applying for credit a certain number of times a year.

I don't think any American president is going to change the way things are, as I'm pretty certain that much like here in the UK, the Prime Ministers come and go.  The civil service is eternal... and where the power to blatently ignore things resides.

February 11, 2009 11:44:41 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Frontline has done so many stories on how rigged the credit markets are it's just insane.

The one I noticed lately is the neat trick of setting your billing cycles out of sync with your actual payment cycle - apply your payment to your previous bill rather than your next one so the next bill gets underpaid.

I've got mine fixed, but it's a neat little trick to watch out for - Jonnan.

February 11, 2009 11:49:28 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

They also said that technically such information cannot be used for anything beyond determining someone's credit.

Or auto insurance rates, or homeowner's rates, or a tidy list of other things having essentially nothing to do with your credit rating/score.  And our (usually state) government, the one 'here to help us,' explicitly permits this.

February 11, 2009 11:52:05 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The one I noticed lately is the neat trick of setting your billing cycles out of sync with your actual payment cycle - apply your payment to your previous bill rather than your next one so the next bill gets underpaid.

This happened to my son with his car loan - he made his 'next' monthly payment one day early and they called it a 'supplemental' payment, then dinged him for 'missing' his regularly scheduled payment.  That is clearly a predatory practice & should be banned.  But it's tough to get a state to do anything for individuals.  We don't have a lobby; the predatory lenders do.  And the credit bureaus don't care - they get paid by lenders to help lenders make more money.  They have no incentive whatsoever to be objective or helpful to individuals.

February 12, 2009 1:10:27 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

For example, if he was so motivated, he could nationalize the agencies with an executive order if he wanted.

Yes, that's what we need. Obama nationalizing even more of this country.

 

 

Perhaps you should e-mail him and suggest it? I'm sure he would be most grateful, especially if he hasn't already thought of it himself. Heck, he might even arrange rent-free housing for you - if you cried just the right way.

February 12, 2009 4:31:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@Daiwa - that is exactly why I think the government needs to control the system or at least an independent agency overseen by the government.

@Moose - For something like credit reports given the robust and extensive use of such things in the current economic environment within the USA, yes it should be. As far as I'm concerned, ANYTHING that has a profit motive that is inherently biased against the general public welfare should be controlled or at least closely monitored by the government and I say that as a libertarian. On the other hand the government could simply pass laws that limit credit reports to only credit and consumer loans. Furthermore said laws should allow judges to order changes to records on behalf of the public and I would be more than glad to shut up.

February 12, 2009 10:22:41 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

@Spartan - That's the sad part.  They already do.  They have just allowed the deck to get stacked overwhelmingly in favor of the lenders over the past 30 years or so.  We used to have things called usery laws which capped consumer-credit interest rates & constrained the extra 'fees' that lenders & banks could unilaterally and retroactively impose as well as limits on their ability to arbitrarily change the terms of credit agreements at the drop of a hat.  Yet, somehow, they all seemed to make adequate amounts of money back then.

February 12, 2009 11:50:52 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

What REALLY ticks me off, though, is those nasty little bank trolls who come in at night and re-arrange all your payments and debits in ascending order, starting with the largest charge first.

The games they play are evil, no doubt about it.  They also conveniently ignore deposits they can actually see on their systems as having been made but which won't get 'credited' until the next banking day.  They build fancy executive suites with those contrived overdraft fees.

February 12, 2009 11:54:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@Little-whip - wait till you get the fees for the three little things. It is a double edge penalty.

@Daiwa - I know but most of them, to my knowledge have been taken of the books as part of the reganomics deregulation & trickle-down philosophy practiced by Regan and Bush I & II.

February 12, 2009 12:22:39 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

@Spartan -

Since country-wide interstate banking wasn't enabled until 1994, I'm not so sure I would blame Reagan or Bush, despite the gut-level, make that knee-jerk, desire of some to blame everything conceivably bad on at least one of them.

The usery laws were state laws.  Allowing interstate banking set things in motion.  There are many reasons why interstate banking is a good thing, but the trumping of usery laws was an unfortunate accompaniment as was the lobbying clout that the bloated banks were able to bring to bear.  A further problem is that fixing problems of federally-enabled interstate banking requires federal laws, that Congress act on our behalf, something the bozos we've managed to elect are incapable of doing effectively.

February 12, 2009 3:21:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Credit unions have been suffering 'bankification' somewhat since they were allowed to seek members based on geography rather than employer(s). But the good ones are still far better than a bank, at least for those of us who don't have big piles of "Please, how may we help you today" money to leave deposited.

In the last year, I had quite a bit of interaction with one of the larger banks active down here in the South. I've been griping at my CU fairly often in the past several years, mostly because they seemed to be getting to bank-like (they were actually using our money to run TV ads encouraging folks to borrow for frivolous things like vacations). Working with "a real bank" made me appreciate how different it is to be a member, however humble, instead of just another customer.

February 12, 2009 3:28:10 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

If I could, I'd conduct all my banking with NFCU but I've tried it & without a physical branch in the state, it's awkward at best.  And you are right about the 'bankification' of previously very customer-centric 'focused' financial firms.  I've been a member of USAA for 30 years and for a long time their credit card operation was perfectly customer-friendly with no landmines, tripwires or other gotcha BS burried in the usual 10 page, 4-point font agreement, with more-than-competitive interest rates.  They've crept, bit by bit, very close to 'What's in your wallet?' over the past decade.

February 12, 2009 3:38:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@ Daiwa - I'm in the "hotly contested" political camp. I'm not faulting the act, I think it was ultimately necessary. I'm just peeved over the many special interest motives and pandering behind the version we got shoved on us via the GOP without any real federal protections for the little guys commonly known as consumers. The word "customer" has some glimmer of respect in its connotation and thusly was tossed in the can along with many other good things by the neocons.

 

 

About USAA, I have been a member for going on 20 years and I honestly trust them from top to bottom. It is without a doubt the best such institution of its kind I have ever dealt with. Once I asked for a credit line increase on my credit card since I wanted to buy a house for my sister on it and they upped it to over $40k in minutes. I can't bitch about interest either since I'm plugging away in the 5-7 percent range on average. In all the time I have been a member, maybe three or four times I have inadvertently occurred a fee and every time I have asked them about it they have asked if I wanted it removed and promptly did so. That is class pure and simple. If I had to give only one reason to go into the military USAA membership is it. It is simply the best benefit I have ever received from my near decade of service.

 

BTW: That link was an excellent read!  karma! 

February 12, 2009 4:18:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I should put things in perspective - I absolutely agree with your assessment of USAA.  I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity of membership.  But it has become more 'bankified' in recent years, wouldn't you agree?  I know that they recently applied in Arizona for permission to adopt credit-score rating for homeowners insurance and already are allowed to use credit scores for setting auto rates.

Thanks for that service, BTW.

February 12, 2009 4:52:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sure. I figured they have done so in response to market pressures, regulatory obligations and membership demands. I was not aware they were going to base rates for insurance and auto rates on credit scores however. That does not see right at all in my book but I would think its membership, in general would not have such issues to worry about but then again I may be naïve about the situation.

BTW: No need to thank me but it is appreciated. You should properly thank the taxpayers over 35 years ago. The service was my attempt to give back to society for taking care of me and my sister as children & my mother after she developed cancer. The undergrad and graduate education I received as a result was a pure bonus in my book. For what it is worth, I would go back in a hot minute if asked.

February 12, 2009 5:55:17 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I look back on it fondly now & am glad for the experience, but at the time I couldn't wait for my 2 years, 2 months & 10 days to end.

February 12, 2009 5:57:48 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

the version we got shoved on us via the GOP

I could swear Clinton claimed credit for that.

February 12, 2009 6:16:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Daiwa,

the version we got shoved on us via the GOP
I could swear Clinton claimed credit for that.

It involved a wicked behind the scenes compromise and horse trading situation with GOP leaders and special interest "friends" if memory serves. Moreover Slick Willie is never one to pass up political opportunity.

February 16, 2009 4:21:10 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
@Spartan -

Since country-wide interstate banking wasn't enabled until 1994, I'm not so sure I would blame Reagan or Bush, despite the gut-level, make that knee-jerk, desire of some to blame everything conceivably bad on at least one of them.

The usery laws were state laws.  Allowing interstate banking set things in motion.  There are many reasons why interstate banking is a good thing, but the trumping of usery laws was an unfortunate accompaniment as was the lobbying clout that the bloated banks were able to bring to bear.  A further problem is that fixing problems of federally-enabled interstate banking requires federal laws, that Congress act on our behalf, something the bozos we've managed to elect are incapable of doing effectively.

Actually I believe the overturning of the usury laws goes back to a supreme court decision which meant that interstate banks were liable only for the laws of the state the were incorporated in, not the states they did business in.

Which suddenly made Montana and Delaware very good states to be incorporated in.

I generally like Thurgood Marshall and the liberal supreme court of his era, but the fact of the matter is they relied on the phrasing of a law that was over a century old at the time to create an entirely new interpretation. Sometimes that makes sense - saying for instance that the 14th amendment has ramifications for equality under the law that had not been previously enforced makes sense to me. Esoteric wording of bank acts hammered out in committee over a century earlier, I'm less inclined to blithely accept.

I recommend to you "The Secret History of the Credit Card" from Frontline

 

February 16, 2009 11:12:18 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

@Jonann001 -

Thanks for the info.  The 1994 law just compounded the problem, then.  Gotta love Delaware.

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