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My personal think about the Rook. (gameplay hint !! to beat Wagnard )

By on January 27, 2009 12:05:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ok.

1- Many people think rook is O.P

I d'ont think this is true. Is a little bit too powerful now with a 2100 Hammer damage. (should be 1800 imo).

Also there is a radius bug with the hammer. at this distance normally (lets say "I" is a player ) I  the player should not receive the full domage. PLayer should only receive the 800DMG instead of the 2100.

Another way to evade the hammer and I dont see people doing it while its the best way to avoid damage is to run straight at the rook. There is no radius bug with this so when running at the rook or a little higher than the hammer or lower (just don't be under it) you wont receive full damage. Escaping is the easiest way for a rook to have a successful 100% damage hit with the hammer (unless you have been stun by the boulder far far away but since there is a radius bug its better to avoid running away in straight line.

2- PLEASE PLEASE don't get yourself voluntary directly under my hammer PLEASE!!! I'm laughing at this every time and then the player say OMG so O.P

Come-on !! manage your character movement correctly.

3- Calculate my cold-down. once you can do that, you can predict when I'm gonna launch a boulder. when you think its about time I lunch one, walk over me. Since the boulder work on a direction, it will be hard for me to lunch and I will have high chances to fail.

If you can successfully follow this, youll see rook is not that much O.P anymore.

4- Laggy player have high chance for killing me. I can't tolerate lag  I play all bad when it's laggy

so for GpG, they just need to correct hammer radius and lower a bit the hammer damage and all will be perfect imo.

Feel free to comment friendly (I may be wrong about Rook not being O.P) so feel free to tell me in a polite way.

Have fun killing me

 

+16 Karma | 80 Replies
January 27, 2009 12:11:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I actually have bigger problems with the Power Towers then the rooks hammer/boulder, have no problem with that really since its so slow to hit with so the target really has to be stunned for you to hit.

January 27, 2009 12:15:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Sevenix,
I actually have bigger problems with the Power Towers then the rooks hammer/boulder, have no problem with that really since its so slow to hit with so the target really has to be stunned for you to hit.

Thats what I think but many people like UltimeH are whinning about this. Even Flurus think a bit its to O.P

Im trying to explain them but I think they dont get it. Maybe im just plain wrong but I dont think so on this one. I know whats are rook forces and weakness and I dont see many players abusing them.

January 27, 2009 12:19:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yah I was about to put something in another post about this but you beat me to it, Wagnard!   Oh well, I'll just add to what you said a bit -

After testing last night I, too, found the best way to evade hammerslam is to run "through" the Rook slamming.  If you get behind him you will not be hit with any damage at all and it's very easy to do with the long hammer channel.  This works regardless of the size of your DG silhouette, so if you are in a Rook Duel it will work too. 

Imagine Rook's hammer is throwing down a picnic blanket of destruction - you won't get out from under the blanket by running away from the Rook because it will still fall on you.  Run through FTW. 

Boulder at range has a stun only long enough to get the Rook into position for the slam.  If you sit out the stun and immediately move through the slam you will take little to no damage. 

Of course this doesn't work if you are bouldered from a close distance.  Try to avoid this.  Don't stand still while capping a flag, because rooks are made for port+boulder+slam.  Don't melee the Rook for longer than 5 seconds before getting enough distance to avoid the boulder or sit out the stun.

And thanks for the post, Wagnard. 

January 27, 2009 12:21:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks Ke5strel Glad to see there is intelligent people around !! I tought there were only whining people.

 

January 27, 2009 12:31:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To add more. Must people say that there is a boulder / Hammer combo.  Its really not a Combo (unless been stunned verry closed by the Rook). The stun is really not long and since rook take time to move and the casting time of the hammer is pretty long, you have some little time to move you character correctly for not taking the full damage.

People you get stun by the boulder must not say that its over and im gonna get hammered. NO  its time to use some fast management of your unit. Move up left right or down. depending on your situation and the time you have to do so.

Best solution is run through the Rook. Alternative are to get away but since there is a radius bug, I dont partiucualary recommend this one.

Other solution is to move aside from the hammer. It will not hit you will full damage.

 

January 27, 2009 12:44:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

We just need some items to counter it better I think it is fine just make other player buy an item to counter

January 27, 2009 12:48:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Wagnard,
Thanks Ke5strel Glad to see there is intelligent people around !! I tought there were only whining people.
 

No worries   I haven't really played Rook since Beta 1 so it was really interesting to figure it all out again this week. 

From our previous convo - Heaven's Wrath is not nearly as OP as before, since it looks like they raised the cooldown alot.  And if you want to be a real Make-Them-Ragequit-Rook you should invest in Staff of Renewal, which gives you access to double boulder/slams...

It's too bad, they might have tweaked this item in part because of this thread and now it's really imbalanced in light of this combo :/

January 27, 2009 12:55:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting HorseRadish,
We just need some items to counter it better I think it is fine just make other player buy an item to counter

Thats what I think but someone named UltimeH told me he doesnt want to buy an item to counter another demigod if the other demigod did not needed an item to counter him. Personally this Is stupid imo. But he said Im a noob and have experience in rpg... what a retarded teen lol(hes my brother btw).

 

January 27, 2009 1:14:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Also there is a radius bug with the hammer. at this distance normally (lets say "I" is a player ) I (hammer) the player should not receive the full domage. PLayer should only receive the 800DMG instead of the 2100.

Sums the topic up because I have had no luck in beta2b+c by runing under Rooks legs to avoid the hammer, I still take loads of damage and forced to retreate. I know how it's done because I use to do it all the time in earlier beta builds. Why have a ballance discussion over a buged DG.

January 27, 2009 1:24:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My problem is not so much the amount of damage the rook can do, but how invunerable he can be with a few hp and armor items.  When played by a competent person he is near impossible to take out and with any speed upgrades, it just feels annoying.  Maybe increasing armor should decrease speed?

January 27, 2009 1:26:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why not. when they will debuged him, balance discition will be right here.

 

To trig. yeah he got quite a hp boost. a little tweak may help but personally I dont even buy it an armor when I play. I wont tell you what I buy but it has nothing with hp or hp regen

January 27, 2009 3:08:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Imo only problem is 2.1k damage + damage from boulder stun can be a BIT too much at time...but then again if you keep moving its hard to get hit by boulder. Also late game when his HP reaches 6.1K and more...its too much

January 27, 2009 3:17:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The main reason why i think hes rigged is hammer slams radius is too big. i mean when I play as Rook sometimes like dang that defintly only 800 and its 2100. Also he is not slower than other Dg's when he should be.

January 27, 2009 3:59:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have been aware of running between the Rook's legs ever since the Nightmares did it to me a while ago.  In both the Boulder Roll and the Hammer Slam, technically the best place to be is right on top of the Rook as both attacks are directional.  However, the problem with this is that the Rook generally wins a slap fight.  If he had lower base attack, then running around his legs would be a viable option.  Unfortunately, you're bound to lose a fight at point blank range simply because he hits harder and has more health.  Plus, he's probably going to hit more frequently if you are focusing on trying to run aorund.  (Don't get me wrong.  He's a giant walking castle.  He's supposed to win slap fights.)

How exactly would I "manage the character's movement correctly"?  It would make sense if he was slower, but currently the Rook is just as fast as any other Demigod.  Managing my character correctly would make sense if there was some way to keep my distance from you.  Unfortunately, you can run just as fast as I can.  Most Rooks that I've played put money into speed items so they run faster (or force you to buy speed items).  It is fairly hard to keep your distance from something just as fast if not faster than you are.  And what exactly are you supposed to do if you are a melee Demigod?  You have to approach the Rook.  How do you not end up dead?  Maybe if you could effectively run away it wouldn't be such an issue, but the Rook is good at chasing people in this beta.

I don't think the Hammer is OP thanks to the slow start up time (minus the Radius Bug, which really screws with a guy).  Heck, even I can dodge a Hammer (now that I've discovered to not run directly away).  However, he can charge up to you and slap fight.  Even without the Hammer, he wins.

Just because it is "possible" to dodge the Boulder doesn't mean that it is balanced.  I mean, you could infinately stall a Mavor in Vanilla SupCom by manually switching shields on and off to absorb the hits, but that didn't make it worthless as a game ender.  The Boulder would be perfectly fine if it didn't stun you for long enough to be Hammered.  However, between the Boulder damage and the Hammer damage, you start getting close to 3000 hp being taken away by a long range projectile with a fairly high movement speed and minimal start up time that can be spammed every 10 seconds.  Sure, its possible to dodge, but like the Mavor in Vanilla SupCom, that doesn't make it any less deadly.  The only difference is that the Mavor was a rare game ender, the Boulder is a way of life.

You say the Boulder Slam it isn't a combo, but I can't think of a faster way to dodge something than by activating the Oak's Shield.  I recently played a match as Oak vs. Rook where I was the Oak.  I occasionally managed to Shield at the absolute last second out of low level Boulder Rolls before he brought down the hammer.  Without the Shield, even at moderate range there is no forseeable way you could dodge the second half of the Boulder Slam.  Once the Rook Roll is at max level, then the stun is plenty long enough to hit from max range, stroll in, and slam.  Again, maybe if the Rook was slower then it wouldn't be so much of an issue.  Nothing is preventing you from Wand of Speeding in after Bouldering, which may have been what this guy was doing to me.

I hope you don't take this as a whining post, as I did not intend it to be that way.  I would appreciate it if you came in and addressed the points I have brought up.  I don't play Rook as he is definately OP, although the degree to which he is may be somewhat debatable.  I would like to hear what a Rook player, heck, the best Rook player has to say about them.  I think, at the bare minimum, his speed should be reduced and the cooldown for the Boulder should be increased to 15-20 seconds.  If the speed is reduced enough, then the stun on the Boulder would be OK as he would mostly be closing the distance.

EDIT:  Oh, and the Hammer Radius Bug could definately use fixing.

January 27, 2009 4:41:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,
Don't stand still while capping a flag, because rooks are made for port+boulder+slam.

The capture range isn't enough to make that a viable solution. Even if you move, you will still get bouldered and hammered.

January 27, 2009 4:50:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Its a lot harder to do that to moving player trust me. Im always like argg!! he moves....

An random_guy you do have some interesting point here. Thanks for sharing.

January 27, 2009 6:00:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When u go right on top of Rook he can still hit with boulder roll and if u do that when he slams than he can easily beat u down or since hes just as fast as u he can chace u down or go ahead of u so he can boulder roll.easily.

January 27, 2009 6:12:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Wagnard,
Its a lot harder to do that to moving player trust me. Im always like argg!! he moves...

Then use Mark of the Betrayer.

January 27, 2009 8:53:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You guys forget something really important. THE FLAG. If it is only a fight to kill, then yes, they're many ways to win vs the Rook.

January 27, 2009 8:59:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yep. to win against rook it require a lot of player movemement control/use skill at the right time.

But dont worry Im sure rook will doo less damage and maybe have a little less HP (it HP is a bit high at higher lvls) in beta 3 but it will still be as dangerous than before in team thats for sure.

 

January 27, 2009 9:10:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

With those changes I think he'd be ok. My main things are he should start slower than other Dg's thats the reason why he has boulder roll after all. Also hammer slam's radius for full effect is to large. I found a bug about Rook though. Once in a while when I tried to hammer slam a tower it wouldn't hit the tower it would hit right/left of the tower.

January 27, 2009 9:26:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Soccer194,
I found a bug about Rook though. Once in a while when I tried to hammer slam a tower it wouldn't hit the tower it would hit right/left of the tower.

I dont know if it is a bug but it is been on other beta too. Whenever I use the hammer on a tower, it alway hit near it, never on it.

January 27, 2009 11:55:35 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Rook isn't horribly overpowered, but the fact that it has to be carefully explained how to survive against him somewhat bothers me.

There isn't a "survive against UB" guide because UB has to do all the surviving. Hahahaha.

January 28, 2009 12:52:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well now that I know more about Rook build, I defy the ppl who say the Rook is not OP to vs me with another dg and win.

January 28, 2009 2:56:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Wagnard,



Quoting HorseRadish,
reply 6
We just need some items to counter it better I think it is fine just make other player buy an item to counter


Thats what I think but someone named UltimeH told me he doesnt want to buy an item to counter another demigod if the other demigod did not needed an item to counter him. Personally this Is stupid imo. But he said Im a noob and have experience in rpg... what a retarded teen lol(hes my brother btw).

 

rook is OP, even if its due to a bug

fixing the hammer issue + less hp and less hammer dmg would do the trick

and dont call other people retarded when you are clueless about basic knowledge

think abotu it : 1v1 player A and B, they fight, but cuz of balance, player A  cant win VS B and is forced to fall back or dying, in the end giving him way less money and EXP, so, player A only choice is to use his inexistent money to buy an expensive item to counter the other player.

even at this point player B  have a massive advantage all the way, because even if player A get the item, player B have more money and more level to counter it in the end. and also, he could easely buy other an item to counter player A after if needed

your logic is flawed , or maybe you are too dense to realize the basics about balance

anyway....

with his current state, any player that can understand the rook mechanic and come out with a decent build will be godly

 

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