Bigger maps&Raiding

It ends up being the same thing. they lose golding for less time but have to rebuild caravans. I do not think caravans if implented should be weak though cause this is not a normal rts and should not be treated as such. It would also make assasins at a disadvantage because they couldn't send guys to raid or protect from raids.

Quoting Cowbuttzex,

reply 25

how many RTS's have you played????

Is personal attacks and rudeness really necessary. Seriously, people can disagree. I happen to.

Quoting Soccer194,

reply 1

It ends up being the same thing. they lose golding for less time but have to rebuild caravans. ... this is not a normal rts and should not be treated as such.

I agree. Just because it was done before doesn't make it a good idea. I love harassing caravans in SINS and Rise of Nations, but it just doesn't fit for me. And as things go, if you tell me they will add another minion or more minions per gate, I would prefer that over a caravan. You have to not just think about the idea, but the trade-offs. For me this is low priority. It uses art and programming time better used for something else, and will always increase memory use for the end user.

I am just afraid if messing with your opponents income doesn't become easier/more accessable or something the game will loose depth. A noob will always have the same income as you do as the game stands right now. Your cash will equal your opponents so they will be getting the items/equipment at the same time as you. This would make the gap between pros and noobs greater.

don't you get more money for killing things? aka n00bs won't get as much if they can't kill as much.

Also capping flags? If a 'n00b' can cap a flag as easily as someone who is a 'pro' ... is he really a n00b? A 'Pro,' if he's that much better, should be able to stop him, shouldn't he?

Being able to change the opponent's income is adding another layer of depth to the gameplay.

but we can already change their income by capturing their flag. The guys running around with money are all going to be going from the flag to the base, right? so wouldn't that mean you would have to go past the flag to attack them? why not just capture it? I'm personally not for the idea, I don't really see what could be gained (besides more stuff for the computer to process).

exactly if your in their flag area and u can attack it why not just capture it.

Quoting ToxDrawace,

reply 6

but we can already change their income by capturing their flag. The guys running around with money are all going to be going from the flag to the base, right? so wouldn't that mean you would have to go past the flag to attack them? why not just capture it? I'm personally not for the idea, I don't really see what could be gained (besides more stuff for the computer to process).

Capturing takes VERY long, and the enemy can only be damaged by taking that flag. With this suggestion you will be able to raid on the road to the citadel. Raiding brings more depth.

P.S. Would a continious stream of workers, or just one big load at a time be better? And what happens if the enemy captures the flag before the workers arrive? They die? They continue to the citadel?

Also I think rebuilding caravans should be free. O yeah: the bounty on caravans should be lower than what they are carrying, otherwise you could abuse the system, since bounty is given instantly.

Quoting Cowbuttzex,

reply 25

You can actually kill them???? in like a few hits.... how many RTS's have you played???? Killing whatever produces your income is hugely important. If its just a flag you can't destroy it. You need it to be a unit or a building thats destroyable. The player that got raided would have to replace the building/merchant so he can keep up with your income or suffer the consquences. Being able to kill something rather than taking it would cause actual damage instead of loosing your gold mine for maybe 30 secounds until you take it again.

You've obviously not played any modern RTS - Dawn of War, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, etc. all have fixed locations that provide income that can not be destroyed. It's a system that provides more harassment than a finite, worker based system, not less.

No, it doesn't, it makes the economical system more logical and less micro-intensive. Raiding already is a big part in these games, since they're full blown RTS's, adding more depth would only make it too complex. Another thing is that positioning of drop off points would be come way too important. Third: these games try to be the game as much about the combat and not on recourse and basebuilding, as this is a common pitfall for RTS's. With Demigod these problems aren't there: More depth would only be beneficial, you won't have to position dropoff's since their fixed, and Demigod is already centrered enough around combat.

P.S. I wouldn't rate WiC and COH under RTS's/

You've obviously not played any modern RTS - Dawn of War, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, etc. all have fixed locations that provide income that can not be destroyed. It's a system that provides more harassment than a finite, worker based system, not less.

ehm you can destroy the mass extractors and power generators in supcom; you also can destroy the upgrades of control points in CoH and DoW (granted, they do give a bit for just controlling it). But how are the mass spots in Supcom different from the undestroyable crystals in starcraft, and then you also have workers which reclaim stuff which are an major part of the economy in supcom.

I wouldn't rate WiC as rts either, its more of a team-based action tactics game but CoH is a very traditional RTS.

In Demigod currently you gain more gold if you control more gold mines and you also gain more gold when you kill more minions (actually when you are nearby) and when you kill Demigods (with lasthit). One of the citadel upgrades also looks like it would increase gold income and iirc there was something about QoT being able to generate gold somehow.

I currently don't have any idea how additional economy stuff could be added in demigod except for being able to temporarily destroy gold mines with either normal damage or a special explosives item (with a long casting time). The mines would either just appear after some time again or would need some money to be rebuild.

I think you guys are over complicating this with the whole caravan thing.

Just make the gold mine hittable (if it's not already) and each hit pauses production. Think solar collectors in TA. Though I admit this may not be so easy in the supcom engine as it was in TA.

If you're worried about good players not being able to get more gold than new players, then just follow supcom's model: add neutral resource points across the map. If possible, decrease the time it takes to cap them so they're more volatile.

IMO, these are much simpler ideas that do what you guys seem to want.

ehm you can destroy the mass extractors and power generators in supcom; you also can destroy the upgrades of control points in CoH and DoW (granted, they do give a bit for just controlling it). But how are the mass spots in Supcom different from the undestroyable crystals in starcraft, and then you also have workers which reclaim stuff which are an major part of the economy in supcom.

Mass Spots, Flags and Control points, are all infinite, workerless, stationary resource points. It's different from Starcraft and other old RTS in all 3 points. Capping and uncapping a flag is no different from building and destroying a mass extractor - you need units to do it, it's on a specific location, it won't ever run out.

Also, making Gold mines shut down on hit would probably work, but the only real solution is probably putting Goldmines and their flags farther away from the starting locations of each side. Put them deeper into contested territory and they'll change hands more often.

Quoting Insanetitan,

reply 12

If you're worried about good players not being able to get more gold than new players, then just follow supcom's model: add neutral resource points across the map. If possible, decrease the time it takes to cap them so they're more volatile.

This is already in all the maps we have seen except atlantis. To everyone in this discussion, like I say on every thread, wait for beta 2 before you come up with a hundred problems.

Quoting DatonKallandor,

reply 13

Also, making Gold mines shut down on hit would probably work, but the only real solution is probably putting Goldmines and their flags farther away from the starting locations of each side. Put them deeper into contested territory and they'll change hands more often.

Remember this is not a territory you are tkaing over, this is an arena made by the gods. They wanted a safe zone for both teams. The need to push is inherent in this game. It is not necessary to have resources in the middle of the arena to get you to push. I am a turtler or economic/tech boomer in other games, not in this one.

Quoting DatonKallandor,

reply 9

Quoting Cowbuttzex,
reply 25
You can actually kill them???? in like a few hits.... how many RTS's have you played???? Killing whatever produces your income is hugely important. If its just a flag you can't destroy it. You need it to be a unit or a building thats destroyable. The player that got raided would have to replace the building/merchant so he can keep up with your income or suffer the consquences. Being able to kill something rather than taking it would cause actual damage instead of loosing your gold mine for maybe 30 secounds until you take it again.

You've obviously not played any modern RTS - Dawn of War, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, etc. all have fixed locations that provide income that can not be destroyed. It's a system that provides more harassment than a finite, worker based system, not less.

I have played Age of empires 1-3, Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends and ever single battle for middle earth game. In every single one of these games there was a building, worker, caravan or something KILLABLE that provided income and yes I haven't played any of those RTS games but you haven't played any of the ones I listed I am guessing. Anyway I am done arguing my point because nobody understands the importance of crippling your opponents economicly.

QFT

I agree that something needs to be done to make raiding possible. I just don't know what that something is :/

Well, IMO, the problem isn't that you have mines in your base that are basically untouchable, it's that you can survive and thrive on these mines. It's like in supcom and DoW. You start with a few resource points in your base, but you sure as hell couldn't win a game with them (minus fields of isis). You're still required to expand. How would this be any different? They resources can't be destroyed, but they can certainly switch hands.

I may not have the best ideas, but I certainly don't see this as some major, unsolvable problem.

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