The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Generals

By on October 21, 2008 7:59:37 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Right now GPG is in the process of implementing generals.  Before I spoil it and tell you how they work it would be cool to hear HOW you guys think they should work?

Now, bear in mind, there's balancing and scope involved here. While on paper having assassins play like they do now and have generals play like a Supreme Commander style RTS might sound good, that would be impossible to balance and probably not very fun in practice.

So what would you guys like to see? After enough comments, we'll talk about how we're doing it and then see what tweaks we can make based on your feedback.

+86 Karma | 120 Replies
November 1, 2008 5:04:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

One great inspiration for Generals would be a playstyle similiar to scarifice if someone can remember it.

You could summon minions and give them basic orders and cast Spells on your own, this was great game (*sigh* i wish that there would be a sequel)

 Edit: this brings me to the idea that sacrifice should be on Impulse.

November 1, 2008 2:04:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To quote frogboy (aka Brad):

1) I don't want generals building barracks and such. Besides how hard that would be to balance, I don't think of generals as builders but rather people leading units in some way.

When I first heard of this game (before it was possible to preorder it), I got the impression that it was Warcraft meets Diablo. You would have the assasins who were players who specialized in kicking butt (Diablo), and the generals would be the players who controlled units and built stuff (Warcraft). Reading your comment seems to suggest that these generals are little more than the hero units from warcraft 3, units that often had passive buffs for nearby units, and had often had other group related abilities. They would in no way have the same level command ability that their name would suggest.

So if the generals can't command whats going on, such as improve defenses here, build a few towers there, and train these units; then who does?

November 1, 2008 4:08:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

While I'm thinking about it, perhaps I should purpose a new type of demigod. Lets call them builders, crafters, or better yet, artificers. These "artificers" will support the war effort by building structures, crafting special equipment and making them available for use by creeps and other demigods, and making special stuff for themselves for when they meet other demigods in battle.

 

1) Building structures: These demigods can replace lost towers, and creating new ones at tactically significant areas. These are not the temporary ones the rook makes, but rather the kind that remain standing until destroyed. Other buildings might include additional healing crystals (weaker versions), and shops. Stuff on sale might a limited selection of the weaker stuff at the base, or some of the stuff these demigods have been able to make themselves.

Giving some thought on how this would work, an artificer might first create a temporary building. From there, it would spend time, energy, and money to make these temporary structures permanent. These structures might start out weak at first, so this demigod might need to do additional work on the given structures to upgrade them. Given enough time, an artificer may be able to fully replace damaged defences, or make better, upgrade existing defence beyond what they were at the beginning of the game, or even build a new base of sorts some place on the map.

Alternatively, these artificers may need to make a certain base structure first before it could start making other structures. This base structure would allow for the construction of other structures within a set radius (think zerg creep, or undead blight). In addition to allowing the construction of other buildings, they might even empower nearby structures. Of course the radius, and the power of the buffing effect increases as it is upgraded.

 

2) Map resources: Since these artificer demigods would make things, it might be appropriate to have certain resources on the maps to be capturable (flag capture). When a side has control of certain resources, the artificers of that side can produce new equipment, items, structures and other stuff. With salt peter's (for gunpowder), these demigods could provide some creeps with guns. Adamantine could provide stronger armour and weapons.

Of course, the type of demigod would influence the stuff make able, and their effects. Using the same resources, an alchemist demigod would make guns, while a necromancer might make exploding creeps.

 

3) Combat: Artificers being crafters would not do as well in combat as assassins for similiar reasons why generals would not. Being crafters, and maker of things, an artificer would probably require some time to build up resources, and other supplies before they can properly equip themselves. This equipment might change the nature of their abilities. An alchemist might normally have alchemist's fire for one of their abilities, but with the resources to make explosive, the alchemist might replace his alchemist's fire with alchemist's bomb, or even with a rocket launcher.

 

P.S. I did read a previous journal about wanting to keep guns out of this game. Any mention about that stuff was merely used to make a point.

November 4, 2008 10:21:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Personally, I'm hoping that generals will not have direct control over units. I think the unique appeal of this game is the focus on the demi-god avatar, and if players start spending large amounts of time/concentration micro-managing units other than the demi-god that the game suffers.

There are a large number of quality games on the market where players win battles by effectively micro-managing an army of 'creeps' (e.g. SC, War3, DoW). If Demigod is going to differentiate itself from these games and succeed by bring something innovative and exciting to the marketplace, it's going to be by delivering a unique player experience that revolves around the Demigod. At the end of the game, players need to feel like it was the Demigod's awesome presence on the battlefield that won the day (not the player's skill-micromanging of a horde of insignificant units).

I understand that generals need to deliver a different experience than assassins, but I think this can be accomplished by allowing the general to give high-level commands to his creeps and giving the general buff/de-buff style abilities that reward him for being in the right place on the battlefield at the right time. Personally, I really liked the idea of allowing the general to plant rally flags (to pull creeps towards a certain position) and allowing the general to set a basic stance/formation/rule-of-engagement for certain creeps.

In any case, here's hoping for a exciting and un-matched player experience and years of enjoyable game-play!

November 5, 2008 11:58:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

After enough comments, we'll talk about how we're doing it and then see what tweaks we can make based on your feedback.

 

Are we there yet? 

/pant pant

November 5, 2008 4:07:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the BEST achievement for generals would be having COMPLETE control over minions. If you can do that and balance it out well (im not too sure but i imagine that wud be freakin hard...but i have no idea how they;re gunna turn out) then thats job done.

November 6, 2008 8:31:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

this is instructive:  http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42359.html

 

November 6, 2008 4:27:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think a General unit should have the ability to drop 'beacons'.

 

These beacons can lure the major creeps to go/focus in that direction.

November 15, 2008 11:10:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So I am thinking something like this.

Generals can upgrade this but have a limit as to how many groups he can have.  Also a limit as to how many in each group.  These groups you can give basic commands, move here, hold, attack, etc.  The general should be able to choose who is in each group, so one group with archers and another with tanks, etc.  Because these units are like the normal spawns, I think the general should be able to have auras, and 2 different kinds.  1 Aura type of aura which is a global one, so it effects the whole playing field, but of course they would have to be weaker then the 2nd type of aura.  The 2nd type of aura should be a local aura, a certain distance from the general, but stronger effects then the global ones.

The tough part about being a general is the number of auras you can have on at a time.  Perhaps 1 maybe upgradable to have more.  I also think that with these aura limits, they will have to chose weather to have a local aura or a global one on at the time.  The different kind of auras should be anything from movement speed, to more health, more damage, more range, etc.

I didn't have a chance to read all the others, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth.

November 16, 2008 12:31:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just don't want a time limited on my units
(Well, the summoned ones fine, but I want to be able to depend on my general general units)

November 20, 2008 12:01:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think you should either spawn all creeps with your skills instead of buying them or at least use your skills for you greatest creeps. In order to not have to many skills for each type of creep you could have one skill called "Summon", that when used would give you a selection of all the creeps you can use at that lvl. As you lvl summon you get access to more creeps. You could have sevral summon skills so you can summon more than one at a time. Skills further down the tree you could have a supercreep. Or something like this.

November 20, 2008 2:31:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How about consumable items that you have to buy, but then you use the item once and you learn the ability to summon, and then you spend mana to actually summon them, or something to that effect? And maybe you need the lesser summons before buying the better summons, or the cost of the more better ones is less if you've bought the previous levels of the same creep. I guess we'd need an extra action bar for generals then, but it doesn't seem fair that generals have less item slots because their creeps take the spaces up.

November 22, 2008 10:58:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

What would be awsome is if generals could create creeps, but more than that they can attach their spawns to assassins (ranged attacking spawns) making that assassin awsomely more powerful, but assassin moves would cause the creeps to start falling off unless the general can keep them fastened (using magic or some funky tricks). Meanwhile the oponents can eliminate the attached creeps from assassins, not to mention that they are immobile and easy to hit (lower hp than normal).

 

Some spawns attached should be exploding spawns which are a double-edged sword. If hit they hurt the assassin by exploding, but the assassin can hurl them like bombs. Without the assassin they are walking bombs but harder to get to a destination.

 

This would make a team of assassins and generals attacking a very poweful team, where the general opens himself up for attacks by attaching his defencive creeps to an assassin, and the assassin becomes a more powerful killing machine who also now has to defend the general in addition to his normal role.

 

Ah that would be awsome... tossing pigs at enemies as a rook, having little goblins jump from your head attakcing enemies... Having the "rook riders" as a bunch of funky little demons who ride the rook with bows and all sorts of funky weapons, getting thrown off from the rook when he makes some powerful attacks, and the rook has to try and catch the spawns falling offa him.

November 28, 2008 6:20:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In that gamespot review it said commanders would all get the same set of units. It seems a pity that the customization isn't available there. I'd like to see either a unique set of units for each general, and/or the addition of units to the skill tree, so the generals can play as differently from eachother as the assasins.

November 28, 2008 8:32:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As one of the players who saw this game as a gateway to playing with my Warcraft 3 hero loving brother, while I prefer my RTS, my preferance would be, akin to having 1-10 "mini" heroes with direct control, perhaps giving players options on how many and how powerful.

Example:

Player A (General) picks 1 mini hero giving mini hero a % bonus to abilities, then he chooses a hero type.

Player B (General) picks 5 mini heroes giving mini heros no bonus to abilities, and then gets to choose the hero type for those 3.

Player C (General) picks 10 mini heroes giving mini heros -% penalty to abilities, and then gets to choose the hero type for those 10.

Hero types in my mind, the way demigod is setup would be Tank/Ranged, AOE/Ranged, Tank/Melee, AOE/Melee, Stun/Slow. Probably limiting Stun/Slow to one mini hero, cause frankly, I don't like chain stunning when its being done to me.

The idea would be, balance would be based on a 3 part component. Number versus Bonus for using less.. penalty for using more, mini hero type, and the general itself. As long as the general is alive, his "troops" continue to spawn either next to him, or back at the spawn point and have the general with an ability to rally all his troops across the map to him (on a cooldown of course).  All in all, what I hope for, is something along the RTS lines that doesn't resemble playing an RPG assassin. 1-10 units I would think would be entirely plausible for playing, and if folks don't like the idea of playing a "RTS general" then they can play the assassin, that is why you have elected to have differences after all is to allow for that choice. I personally have offered no opinions on assassins as generally speaking I don't particularly care for that "type" of gameplay, and have myself been looking forward to the introduction of Generals.

One of the Warcraft 3 maps we played on was called Heroes and Empires, which as the title describes, allowed you to pick a hero (rpg) or empire (builder/army).  For those who have played AND enjoyed that map, you'll understand why I say that was the easiest thing we could play togther.

November 28, 2008 11:16:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

that sounds kinda cool, but not at all in the direction demigod is going. I can't imagine have 10 mini rooks running around. 

December 2, 2008 11:40:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting stratobot,
In that gamespot review it said commanders would all get the same set of units. It seems a pity that the customization isn't available there. I'd like to see either a unique set of units for each general, and/or the addition of units to the skill tree, so the generals can play as differently from eachother as the assasins.

Generals will get the same 3 recruitable/puchasable units, but they will get 1 unique unit each.  Also thanks to auras and other abilities, they will play differently.

December 2, 2008 1:25:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Would be nice if the Mino Captain, Siege Archer and High Priest would be unique to each General in terms of abilities and such.

December 2, 2008 2:06:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oakwarrior,
Would be nice if the Mino Captain, Siege Archer and High Priest would be unique to each General in terms of abilities and such.

Seems like doing things different for the sake of being different.  I like the simplified, easy accessability of Demigod, with the complexity placed on the demigod abilities.  Hopefully, we get a real look at this soon instead of just making guesses.

December 2, 2008 5:20:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Trigeminal,

Quoting Oakwarrior, reply 18Would be nice if the Mino Captain, Siege Archer and High Priest would be unique to each General in terms of abilities and such.
Seems like doing things different for the sake of being different.  I like the simplified, easy accessability of Demigod, with the complexity placed on the demigod abilities.  Hopefully, we get a real look at this soon instead of just making guesses.

What would the Vampire Lord do with a passive ranged damage bonus from a Siege Archer for example? It's not for the sake of being different, it's for the sake of benefit to suit each Demigods' needs.

Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108435  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000375   Page Render Time:

Stardock Magazine | Register | Online Privacy Policy | Terms of Use

Copyright ?? 2012 Stardock Entertainment and Gas Powered Games. Demigod is a trademark of Gas Powered Games. All rights reserved. All other trademarks and copyrights are the properties of their respective owners. Windows, the Windows Vista Start button and Xbox 360 are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies, and 'Games for Windows' and the Windows Vista Start button logo are used under license from Microsoft. ?? 2012 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. All rights reserved. AMD, the AMD Arrow logo and combinations thereof are trademarks of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.