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Demigod Beta 1-A preview

By on September 30, 2008 1:03:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

This week we intend to release the first update to the Demigod engine test beta (beta 1-A).  Under the hood there have been tons of changes made and we're beginning to make room for some of the more significant changes you'll be seeing in Beta 2 (beginning of November).

Here are some of the highlights:

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My friend Soren Johnson has a great article entitled "the seven deadly sins of strategy games".  The bottom line is to paraphrase Sid Meijer, good strategy games give players "interesting" choices.

The flags in Demigod are going to be core element to this because controlling these flags are how the different sides will gain tremendous advantages. 

A good player (or team) would be able to quickly eliminate a new player or team simply by taking these flags and holding them long enough to overwhelm the enemy.  This prevents the problem in many multiplayer games where even when you're playing against unskilled players, you're still committing a lot of time to the game. Yet, at the same time, the game mechanic is straight forward enough that it's intuitive to players why they're winning or losing.

The team is brain storming all kinds of different types of flags. For beta 1-A, we just did gold as a proof of concept.

 

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This next change is going to be more controversial without some explanation.   When someone posts about this saying how they hate this change, point them to this post.  The idea is that we're starting to make room in the UI and in the balancing for lots of additional skills as well as skill buffing  (where you enhance one of the existing skills with a modifier).  So don't take this screen as implying that we're going to have some dull linear progression.

 

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The second map is in.  The mine map is somewhat smaller but has some interesting strategic conundrums.

So when will the beta be out? We are targeting this Thursday (basically we release betas on Thursdays typically).

+86 Karma | 83 Replies
October 1, 2008 2:46:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

@AnnihilatorX

I kinda just used 30 secs as an example, but yeah, that probably is a bit short, isn't it

I like your idea a lot. It kind of reminds me of Team Fortress 2.

A modification to your idea was maybe locks are less effective for lower hierarchy flags. Maybe they lock for less time or maybe they just make it harder for the other team to bring it to their side instead of impossible.

October 1, 2008 3:09:31 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Maybe instead of flag locks, you could do a Flag Guardian creep, and therefore the flag would be as secure as you paid for it to be?  You could buy more Guardians depending on how much you felt the flag needed, and wether you wanted a group that could handle enemies trying to take it, or just slow them down so you can come back and deal with the problem yourself.

Then again, I'm not even a beta player - the idea just popped into my head.

October 1, 2008 5:28:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Iceciro thats a good idea imo but i doubt it will be impleneted because it would meen they would have to compeltey change the feature and they generally dont do that - but if they do thats great.

Annihilator I like your idea of how you shouldnt be able to lock more important flags like the ones at your base (or they should be made harder to lock) and vice versa with the middel flag.

Horseradish there is MINIMUM strategy involved in buying lock scrolls because it rewards the player A LOT (especially late game where whoever has middle flag generally wins) for only 500. How is it far that the opponent can constantly have your flags locked for the whole game? There is NO skill in that and it needs to be balanced. I dont understand your arguement of "stop complaining its strategy". Is stun locking permanetly with 3 rooks strategy? Sure it is, but its fucking stupid strategy that requires no skill. You support 3 rooks stun locking with boulders?

October 1, 2008 5:54:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Friends and I could play against you guys and make you all of a sudden change your mind and hate how the flag lock item lock works but it's not worth my effort

I know for a fact that most people that say it's fine don't really know how to play the game.  And i'm leaving it at that.
I'm tired of trying to explain why it's broken to people that don't know how to play the game.  But you just wait until you play against someone who knows how to ABUSE the flag locking and then you'll be crying about it and changing your tune.

I don't get beaten by the flag locking.  I know how to abuse it too well.  But I like a game that's fair.

October 1, 2008 5:59:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

-Ness Monster!!!!

 

Flags FTW! not able to lock so some time seems reasonable...

October 2, 2008 1:23:49 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

what time will it be out exactly?

October 2, 2008 1:57:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It might not even be released on thursdasy for sure so lets just hope for that.

I think it will be released like late GMT time....

October 2, 2008 2:48:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Perhaps it would be best to not have any single flag be quite as powerful as the center flag in the waterfall stage is, so it being locked away isn't as big of a deal.  If there were 3 flags, locking one of them wouldn't be quite as decisive of an advantage, I think.

October 2, 2008 5:52:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I got an idea for the flags-

Why not instead of locking the flag, put sort of a defensive structure on it that need to be destroyed before capturing it. (like Compeny of heroes had) in higher level items it can also have retaliation or something.

October 2, 2008 8:13:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just make the flag-lock item more expensive. No need to gut the thing.

October 2, 2008 8:57:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's thursday

October 2, 2008 9:25:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Oakwarrior,
It's thursday

give it 35 minutes, and i'll be living in Friday.

October 2, 2008 9:56:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If flag locking is so controversial, then just take it out.  The only reason we're still discussing flag locking in place of strategy for capturing and holding a flag is because there is a flag locking item that is relatively inexpensive, long duration, and difficult to counter.   I don't believe the focus of the game at any level should be on flag locking.  The focus should be taking the other players base, with capturing flags a key role in that.

October 2, 2008 10:14:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Odit,
If flag locking is so controversial, then just take it out.  The only reason we're still discussing flag locking in place of strategy for capturing and holding a flag is because there is a flag locking item that is relatively inexpensive, long duration, and difficult to counter.   I don't believe the focus of the game at any level should be on flag locking.  The focus should be taking the other players base, with capturing flags a key role in that.

 

LOL, overreact much?  Flag locking needs a major overhaul, but removing it should be a last resort.  Last time I checked, it hasn't even been changed once.  First we need to decide what it's true purpose is, then we can go about balancing it.  If it really has no purpose, then yeah, we could remove it.

For example, IMO, the purpose of flag locking is when you're away from an important flag, some demigod tries to sneak over to steal it.  You notice this just as he gets to the flag.  You're on your way, but obviously won't get there in time to save it.  So you lock it down.

In this context, you wouldn't need the flag lock to last more than 30 seconds.  Trying to lock it down permenantly would be very expensive, even at it's current cost -- not to mention you can only hold so many scrolls --  but it gives you those precious few seconds to (possibly) save yourself from a big mistake.

October 2, 2008 10:29:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting innociv,
Friends and I could play against you guys and make you all of a sudden change your mind and hate how the flag lock item lock works but it's not worth my effort

I know for a fact that most people that say it's fine don't really know how to play the game.  And i'm leaving it at that.
I'm tired of trying to explain why it's broken to people that don't know how to play the game.  But you just wait until you play against someone who knows how to ABUSE the flag locking and then you'll be crying about it and changing your tune.

I don't get beaten by the flag locking.  I know how to abuse it too well.  But I like a game that's fair.

I played you enough times and won enough to say anyday you want to try. Quit crying and play the game we have one map and who knows if that is the final flag they add to the map let the ability of locking a flag be part of strategy. This is far from what we will get at release I don't want them to take it out cause some people can't adapt to different strategies.

October 2, 2008 10:54:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Again, I could care less at this point as we are early beta. The game in its current state (beta 1 folks) is not meant to be played competitively.  There should not be so much focus on flag locking at this stage.  This is an obvious cry out for either taking it out temporarily to shift the focus of the gameplay, or nerf it to the point that it does not play such a key role.  Flag locking would then be re-evaluated for a later beta depending on how the gameplay develops with it gone or super nerfed.

 

Quoting HorseRadish,

I played you enough times and won enough to say anyday you want to try. Quit crying and play the game we have one map and who knows if that is the final flag they add to the map let the ability of locking a flag be part of strategy. This is far from what we will get at release I don't want them to take it out cause some people can't adapt to different strategies.

Starting to sound a bit like DOTA.  Again, beta1.  Quit crying and play the game?  The game is still in development and everyone is still learning to "play" it.  Everything about the game should be considered "subject to change", so I wouldn't get too attached to any particular strat, demigod, tactic, etc. 

Everyone should be able to voice an opinion of what they think of the game in the state its currently in.  Telling others to be quiet and learn to play is counterproductive to the develoment process.

October 2, 2008 11:31:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

go go go patch ! today is the big day !

October 2, 2008 11:36:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How about allowing the flag lock item to be the only item that will unlock a flag?

October 2, 2008 12:14:16 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums
where is it??
October 2, 2008 12:45:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

in sopposedly 15 minutes from now acording to sources

October 2, 2008 1:28:01 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No luck there strikersgun.  Recheck you sources.

 

P.S. Nice playing with you yesterday.  Look forward to playing you again.

October 2, 2008 2:07:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

well once the 15 minute mark came out he pretty much came back to say a issue came out now wait a couple hours and the source was yarlen himself

October 2, 2008 2:14:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

JK

October 2, 2008 2:47:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well the arguement about its "beta 1" now isnt very viable. They are releasing a new patch which is only aimed at BALANCING the game (thats what this patch is doing, no?). So I think us giving our opinions and asking for them to simply nerf it a bit (e.g increase price OR decrease time etc.) so it takes more skill to use it. It can still be a very usefull item, but it shouldnt be so overpowered its just unfair.

October 2, 2008 3:39:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting DalzK,
Well the arguement about its "beta 1" now isnt very viable. They are releasing a new patch which is only aimed at BALANCING the game (thats what this patch is doing, no?). So I think us giving our opinions and asking for them to simply nerf it a bit (e.g increase price OR decrease time etc.) so it takes more skill to use it. It can still be a very usefull item, but it shouldnt be so overpowered its just unfair.

 

Nope this is still engine tests, not yet into balancing.

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