[Gameplay] Flag locking. Broken or not?

Simply have your rooks and TBs stand outside range of each other. The opposing team tries the teleport in nova strategy and your rook who is outside range chucks a rock. Everyone will come out of frost and its GG to that brass Torch Bearer. I'm not assuming that either side is stupid. Either side could win or lose this battle for the flag its a matter of strategy and skill of the players.

Another thing they could do is have their own TB teleport in right after the locking team's TB and frost nova. The side defending would win in this case. None of these strategies so far are unstoppable. You simply have to think of counters for them. What we can't do is simply call things we don't like exploits and then not put in an effort to counter them because we think they're exploits.

No the locks NEED to stay.

IMO they add a lot of depth, so does the teleport to buildings. I really love them. Without them i'd think a lot less of the game at its current state.

And i think the counting as a demigod is better than -50% though.

I think it's better that one person can't solo cap a flag. I don't think i'd use locks if they simply slowed the capping unless it maybe slowed like 75%.. I'd prefer the counting as a demigod there to prevent solo capping, and make more people cap slower.

I'm not wed to 50%. I think that a percent reduction would scale the best, be almost as good as a -1 demigod for most purposes since standing around for two minutes to cap a flag is not on most peoples' lists of smart things to do, but with two you can capture it and lock it before the opposition can respawn if you do everything right. I'm just not sure that solo capping should be impossible because it would need to be changed for 1v1, and reducing it by 75% means that outside a 1v1, nobody in their right mind is going to sit outside a flag for two minutes to cap it. They'd just get owned.

I love locks I think it is agreat addition this is a stategy game i spent $500 to lock a flag u spent it elsewhere this is all part of strategy and what you do with your gold all their is is whining this isnt a balance beta this is suppose to be can the game run beta.

you could make the time it locks depend on the distance the flag is to you base, so defensive locking (ie locking your own portals next to your base to stop someone taking them) will be easier than offensive locking. The further away the flag is, the less time the lock lasts.

Or you could make the time it takes to cap similar, so capping someones flag in their base would take a long time while they could just cap it back much quicker. It might be worth locking if you are nearby and can get there quickly to defend it. This might help with someone just raiding you side of the map and uncapping everything, it kinda makes presence more important, you need to fight for the points.

Why does everyone ignore the fact to just add a cooldown, which is higher than the duration of the damn lock. So you cant perma lock flags...

sheehs..

This is a 1v1 game now?

And balance is one thing. This is about a broken game mechanic.

Broken mechanics dont' fall under the balance category.

I think this game will focus on +3on3, so lower brackets wont be played really hardcore - ln dota its the same. Bigger teams are just more fun + more fun to watch due to more tactic + strategy.

But again.. Why does everyone ignore the fact to just add a cooldown, which is higher than the duration of the damn lock. So you cant perma lock flags...Why does everyone ignore the fact to just add a cooldown, which is higher than the duration of the damn lock. So you cant perma lock flags...Why does everyone ignore the fact to just add a cooldown, which is higher than the duration of the damn lock. So you cant perma lock flags...Why does everyone ignore the fact to just add a cooldown, which is higher than the duration of the damn lock. So you cant perma lock flags....

Maybe now someone reads this, and gives a damn feedback. It is broken as it is right now. But it can be fixed, and they will be.

So long, Aspartem

right.. so while it cools down for one person another person can lock.

counting a friendly demigod there or negetive enemy demigods is the way to go IMO..

No, i meant a cooldown in the shop. You buy it, and then its sold out for 5min. So noone of your team can buy another lock.

Oh.. That'd be a lame solution to me.

That's like how DotA gives many of the heroes ultimates that basically instantly kill, but offset them by giving a 3 minute cooldown.

Overpowered+long cooldown != balanced.

QFT. I think the solution is figuring out a way that the flag is still capturable, but needs a lot more effort than usual. I'd be sorely tempted by innociv's idea if it didn't make inconsistent between game modes. I'm still trying to think of something that would scale nicely across all game modes and deliver this. I think that increasing time by 75% may be the easiest and fairest answer. If you can get a single demi on the objective for two minutes or coordinate enough of your team that you can fight off any teleport counterattacks then you should get the point because you went well beyond the normal requirements and probably sacrificed opportunities equal to the cost of the scroll.

I'll say it again this isn't a broken mechanic, labeling it as such doesn't help discussion at all. I've played so many games where people get the first taste of a game and instantly start declaring mechanics broken. Lets take DotA for an example. So many people who first play the game think the dagon is a broken item. It certaintly seems very powerful for a new player but experienced players know how to deal with it and once they do its actually considered a fairly weak item. You might think its a broken mechanic but it really isn't. I've provided plently of solutions that counter the whole "permalock" strategy.

The only thing that really needs to happen to locks is perhaps the cast time should be lengthened. It takes 1 or 2 seconds right now I believe? Lets make that 5-8 seconds. If you are interrupted you must retry but must remain uninterrupted for 5-8 seconds. If you wanted to take it a step further even normal attacks could cancel the lock cast but that functionally isn't in the game yet for any items that I know of so it would have to be added specifically for locks.

Yah I like that idea. Lengthing it to be interuppted easily is the best course of action. Even better than shortening of making it cost more imo.

-BlueFire

Sighh..

We need to play of game that people know how it's broken vs. people that don't think it's broken.

Agreed but you dodged me last night.

I know what you're saying about perma-locking but it can be stopped.

Uh I didn't dodge you. And who where my good allies that know it's broken?

I'd say it's broken.

So would OakWarrior, TheBigOne, a bunch of people that actually understand the game mechanics.

And if even I was impartial on the subject, I've go by what TheBigOne says more than Brent.

Quoting Kitkun,

reply 18

I'd say it's broken.

NOT!!!!!

Just not defended wee against

Ice nova and boulder last long enough to lock the flag before people recover

Instead of locking, make it a slower capture time (Subject to balance). Perhaps more than one flag lock could be placed at a time (limited 1 per demigod per 5 minutes or such). More Demigods would offset the slow effect.

Example 1. You captured the flag and put down your 1 flag lock which has a 5 minute timer and a 5 minute cooldown (per player). An enemy demigod comes to capture. He has to spend twice the time to capture the flag back because of the lock. 2 Demigods could capture in the normal time for 1. 3 Demigods capture as if there were 2 demigods present.

Example 2. Like Ex 1, you capture and put down your lock. Your teammate comes and puts down another lock. Now, 1 enemy demigod would have to spend 3X time to capture. 2 Capture as if there were no lock present. 3 capture as if there were 3 present.

Its a combination of most of the presented ideas, with one key exception. The flags can still be captured, albeit slower.

making it count as -1 enemy, or a friendly tehre, means that 1 person cannot capture it, 2 people is 50% speed, and 3 people is 66% speed.

Locking should take a little longer though ,maybe. But that's more of a balance thing than broken mechanic thing.

+ 1 vote as a broken game mechanic

+ 1 vote to count as a scaled demi-god (thus necessitating strategy choice--do you send two demis to cap the flag, leaving other routes open, or do you ignore the cap point and the associated bonuses?)

Also, stop hoarding good suggestions Innociv, give others some glory

Actually TheBigOne thought it up.

I just thought up how to make it scale so it isn't broken in 1vs1 and worthless in 4vs4.

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[Gameplay] Flag locking. Broken or not?