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OTF Political, Religious, and Inflammatory Threads

By on October 6, 2006 10:04:41 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums External Link

kryo

Join Date 05/2003
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While the OTF here is the catch-all place for anything you want to discuss that's not games-related, we request that users refrain from starting overtly political and religious threads here, or others that are very likely to veer to such topics. Such threads more often than not degenerate into flamewars and do nothing to engender friendship and camaraderie among fellow players; in fact they often do the opposite and drive players away.

That is not to say that Stardock has anything against such discussions; this is just not the place for them. Users are welcomed to discuss matters of any kind over on the JoeUser.com Forums (which, being Stardock owned, will use the same login as here so you can just pop right on over and start posting if you like). You can even start your own blog there, be it political or based on another topic.

Thanks for cooperating and helping to keep things friendly here.
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January 6, 2009 10:51:40 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Off-Topic is the same for every Stardock forum site now
No not really. For example this Off Topic forum is *not* accessible from Joe User and is by no means the most universally accessible forum.

I don't currently have access to my map of Stardock's close to 350 unique forums that due to duplication are accessible as over 750 forums spread over Stardock's 12 seperate forum sites. Actually I'm sure these numbers have increased since at the time I made my map the Elemental site (the 12th) did not yet exist. The reason I have never published this data is that it's enough data to choke a horse and there's no clean way to make logical sense of it all.

Off the top of my head the forum that is accessible from the most sites (other than the Impulse forum that seems to draw a disproportionate share of moderation) is the Personal Computing forum, but even that isn't universal. In all reality it's very difficult to know how the source of your audience varies from one forum to the next.

I know you've been a proponent of OFT for sometime now and to be honest I have relaxed my previous stance and have even come to appreciate it somewhat, it's just that I have difficulty understanding why some folks feel that anyone that holds a contrary opinion is an idiot and therefore a legitimate target of abuse. Although I do think that some beliefs are so heinous (a la Nazi apologists) that they indeed *are* legitimate targets of abuse.

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January 6, 2009 10:53:07 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Ah ... double post due to page boundry crossing.

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January 6, 2009 12:15:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for the correction, Mumble. I only root around GC2 and Elemental and was mis-remembering from your earlier sprawl analysis.

Joe User pretty much scared me away the few times I've scanned it--I like amiable disagreements, not ferocious ones. Guess that might make my "Free the OT" position just some unconscious form of cowardice or something.

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January 6, 2009 1:02:16 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Joe User pretty much scared me away the few times I've scanned it
This is essentially the point of my earlier reply #19 which is that Joe User is by no means a seamless replacement for the OFT. As I tried to highlight, anyone with a Liberal bone in their body would pretty much take offense at every other thread and if you even attempt to indicate that the prevailing opinions expressed on the site are not necessarily the only possible opinion that reasonable people might hold then you better be prepared to accept significant abuse. Any legitimate point you may make is either ignored, intentionally misconstrued or simply ridiculed. If you’re looking for an exchange of ideas where there is tolerance for dissenting opinion and at least the semblance of give and take this is the last place you should look. Actually there’s plenty of take, just no give.

On the other hand if your opinions are generally to the right of Ann Coulter and you enjoy swearing at and otherwise abusing the occasional liberal that’s stupid enough to wander in and stay for any noticeable period of time then this is the place for you. You certainly have no need to be concerned about your language or trollish behavior, heck those things will just make you fit in better. However you still must be concerned that you not say the wrong thing to the wrong person or as my God-Mother used to tell me your ass will be out of there “so fast your head will spin” (not quite sure what this means, I never was brave enough to press the issue and find out).

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January 6, 2009 5:01:33 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

So the point of a forum is to always be friendly? How boring.While I usually consider rudenes to be when attacking the arguer instead of staying with the argument.It is not a good tactic anyways.

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January 6, 2009 5:21:51 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

As I tried to highlight, anyone with a Liberal bone in their body would pretty much take offense at every other thread and if you even attempt to indicate that the prevailing opinions expressed on the site are not necessarily the only possible opinion that reasonable people might hold then you better be prepared to accept significant abuse.

I tend to be centrist.  What I resent to no end in other moderated forums is when the moderator staff treats members differently based on whether their viewpoints are the prevailing opinion or not.  For example, they may have a "no flaming" rule that applies not just to other members, but to famous people.  Yet if you cuss out Saddam Hussein or Amahdinejad until your fingers get tired, nothing happens at all.  You flame Bush, though, you get censored.   Or even better is if you get a private mail from a mod with your own special rule they made, just for you.

Um, yeah.  I'm not on those forums anymore.  Although I haven't particularly tried Joe User, either.

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January 6, 2009 6:25:22 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

So the point of a forum is to always be friendly?
Friendly is not an absolute requirement but it does make for a more plesant experience. No big deal one way or the other, like everyone else I simply "vote with my feet". I don't require that I always be right however when the bulk of the site *does* require that they *always* be right and that therefore makes me *always* wrong then it's time to exercise my vote.

I'd guess that I would never care to associate with 50% of the people I meet in real life, I can't imagine why the internet would be any different. Life's too short to waste on arguments with people whose viewpoint is diametrically opposed to yours, particularly when they won't even listen to your arguments in the first place.

But there are those that enjoy confrontation. I tend to suspect that such folks are most likely cowards in real life that compensate for it in the anonymity of the internet but whatever, to each his own.  It’s no skin off my neck.

I haven't particularly tried Joe User
If you like Ann Coulter then you'll love Joe User. If not then probably not so much.

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January 6, 2009 7:20:02 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Ann Coulter...thats the guy on Full House, right?

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January 6, 2009 7:34:39 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting Piznit,
Ann Coulter...thats the guy on Full House, right?
You mean the one that talks like popeye, the one that hosts America's Funniest Home Videos or the one that used to be married to Rebecca Romaine?

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January 6, 2009 8:11:10 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Why was this post resurrected?

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January 6, 2009 9:38:11 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It's a sticky. In any case guys, if you want to discuss the OTF policy here, that's fine, but keep it on-topic (yeah, off topic forum... it's the rules thread, live with it).

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January 6, 2009 10:34:53 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

if you want to discuss the OTF policy here, that's fine
That was basically what I was attempting to do, my primary point being that it's fine to say take it over to Joe User however in reality unless your politics are uber right wing you are frankly unwelcome there. Regrettably some folks felt compelled to take the opportunity to crack a few jokes and the resulting chatter went on longer than necessary. In any case I made my comment and have no further need to belabor the point.

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January 9, 2009 12:59:46 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Why was this post resurrected?

 

Um I was bored?

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January 14, 2009 8:08:46 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Is there a link somewhere to a general Terms of Service or Forum Rules for the site as a whole? I couldn't find one.

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January 31, 2009 4:43:16 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
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January 31, 2009 5:05:43 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

As to the original intent of this sticky thread, which was the attempt to keep contentious threads off of Stardock's game related sites and keep them limited to a site with a more adult community, that point is now moot.

This Off Topic forum i.e. http://forums.galciv2.com/forum/412 is now accessible from the Joe User site. I'm not sure when it happened because as of a few months ago this forum was only accessible from the Demigod, Galciv2, Impulsedriven, Sins and Stardock sites.

Anyway since this forum is now accessible on Joe User there is no point in moving any contentious subjects to Joe User since you're already there. That means the assumption that your language should be suitable for a 13 year old game site participant no longer applies. Feel free to swear like a longshoreman, many prominent JU members do. Just do be careful that you not say the wrong thing to the wrong person.

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February 5, 2009 8:09:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is like NTFS hard links.  I hate them too.  I'd like to think that because the banner I'm posting under says Elemental, I'm posting on that forum.  What was the giant win for implementing this nexus of confusion?

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February 5, 2009 10:44:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

What was the giant win for implementing this nexus of confusion?
The reasoning is that a forum is a place to discuss ideas and such discussions can only be enriched by a wider and more diverse audience.

Personally I can understand and partially agree with this argument but I do think there are a few flies in the ointment. First off most of the sites have a specific purpose. People that go to a specific site go there for that purpose and significant amount of "Off Topic" discussion dilutes the benefit of the site. Also as has been noted these types of topics tend to generate some amount of grief and can tend to scare off new users.

However, you could also argue that someone that plays Sins might be interested in Elemental, Demigod and GalCiv2 and so some amount of "cross posting" is both beneficial as well as good advertising.

All in all the mixing of the forums have significantly changed the dynamics of the site that I visit most (galciv2) and in my opinion the changes have not been for the better.

From Stardock's point of view perhaps the commonality makes supporting them easier, I'm not sure. In any case this has been discussed and it's doubtful that this will change and the likelihood is that there will be more sharing in the future rather than less.

Given all this I think most folks accept the situation, it's not like there's anything we can do about it. The one thing that I think would be very helpful is if the poster's site was known for each reply. At least then you would have some idea as to the context of someone's reply.

I'm also pretty sure that it's not really necessary to have close to 400 unique forums duplicated across sites at different levels of the hierarchy on each site. A pruning of the forums along with a published map of them would go a long way to helping folks make sense of the system. Otherwise you really don't have a clue.

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February 6, 2009 2:12:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Mumblefratz (of the Long Island Mumblefratz's?), thanks for the response and the information about the forum structure.

In lieue of having a notification or some Vegas-style neon signage that indicates what or where OT posts originate from and end up in, I'm considering lobbying for a new Stardock position to be budgeted for next fiscal year: The position of Off-Topic Majordomo to welcome newcomers, and guide them towards their correct forum seat.  I think you'd be perfect for the role, though I admit that would be over-stepping my boundaries as far as forum management and workflow processes are concerned.  Still, I'm very close to making this my next project.  It's got win written all over it.

Picture this:

Imagine yourself coming to a new forum, just after registration, not having a clue about on-topic subjects and just wanting to introduce yourself.  Wouldn't you feel down-right giddy if someone lurked up behind you in the dark theatre, took you by the hand, and gently guided you to your ticketed seating area here?

It would have helped this person:

The Off-Topic Introduction of the Lady with Illegible Red Text and An Adorable Family.

 

 

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February 15, 2009 2:16:17 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It'd also help some guidance/warnings could be given when directing people over to the JU site - for example I assumed that since it was a site for political, religious and inflammatory threads, that it would be acceptable to engage in debate with people who posted there (including Brad [Draginol/Frogboy] and other stardock employees), providing of course that I used common sense and didn't attack or insult such people, especially since even when checking the hard to find terms of service I couldn't find anything saying that this wasn't acceptable. Instead I've found out that I've been placing my galactic civilizations account at risk of a ban from engaging in such political debate, while other people who have kept to the gal civ forums to post political/religious/inflammatory threads don't appear to have. So just to warn anyone else who makes the same mistake as I did: Don't go to JU, and if you do, as Mumblefratz said, be careful that you not say the wrong thing to (or even around) the wrong person.

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March 3, 2009 6:49:39 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Awww man and I was just gonna go and say some crap about MACS on the MAc thread  cause Macs suck.

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July 9, 2009 4:28:28 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

....................Welcome.................... to THe Beginning....................................... 

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July 10, 2009 11:06:21 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

This policy is out of date because this *is* Joe User.

  • Home
  • Misc
  • Off-topic
  • How can you tell people to "take it to Joe User" when they're already there?

    I suppose that you could say, take political discussion to the specifically defined political categories on Joe User that at the moment don't happen to be shared with most of the game sites (political machine excluded of course).

    You could also say, take religious discussion to the specifically defined religion category on Joe User that at the moment doesn't happen to be shared with any of the game sites.

    However there really is no specific place for inflammatory threads so why would this Off-topic forum that exists on Joe User be out of bounds?

    Of course I'm primarily playing devil's advocate here, but it does seem disingenuous to say "take it to Joe User" when you're already there.

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    July 10, 2009 11:21:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

    Ha ha... well they have been messing with forum code recently...

    but... the link in the first post still works... so... meh.

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    July 10, 2009 11:38:44 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

    However there really is no specific place for inflammatory threads so why would this Off-topic forum that exists on Joe User be out of bounds?

    JU has a *lot* of categories. Chances are whatever topic someone has come up with that's going to draw the sort of behavior we don't want on the games forums, it has a place on JU.

    Failing that, I'll just have to resort to telling people to get off my lawn

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