Homeworld 3 Petition

as far as I'm concerned there is no "series" of Homeworld.

There is only Homeworld and the un-official expansion Homeworld Cataclysm.

Homeworld 2 does not exist <performs jedi mind trick wave>

Having said that, I do wish someone would pick up the absolutely fantastic story set forth in "Homeworld" or even the slightly tangential story of "Cataclysm" and make another one. Let's just all agree to forget the crap called "Homeworld 2" ever existed.

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The only way you'd see a Homeworld 3 is if it were a gritty FPS reboot, where in you play as Karan S'jet - a former exotic dancer caught up in a futuristic war against terror. About half-way through the game, you'd discover that the terrorists are actually the good guys, and are trying to fight against an oppressive government who is trying to keep secret the discovery of the "Homeworld". The press release would read as follows:

"THQ is please to announce the return of the cult franchise "Homeworld", now re-envisioned for the modern age. Enter the dark world of Homeworld as Karan S'jet - a former exotic dancer with a haunted past. Caught in a futuristic war on terror between the oppressive 'Fleet Control' and dangerous terrorist sect 'The Rebellion', Karen will be forced to chose between the grey areas of her moral conscience as she races to discover the truth about the mythic "Homeworld".

A pulse pounding and highly cinematic FPS that will leave you breathless over 4 massive hours of content.
A dark and moving story written by famed graphic novelist [Insert unknown comic book writter here".
A strong focus on accessibility ensures fans old and new can enjoy the expertly crafted immersive world.
16 player competitive multiplayer on Xbox Live and Playstation Network.
Pre-order bonuses exclusive to Gamestop include: the first Multiplayer Map Pack "Revengerence" and gamer pics.

Look for "Homeworld" this holiday season, exclusive to Xbox 360 and Playstation 3."

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Considering that the original developers of Homeworld dont even work for Relic any more. They moved on to bigger, and better things, and the team created Cataclysm that was Barking Dog split in two. One faction formed Kerberos (creators of Sword of the Stars). The other faction became Ironclad.

A whole new, and inexperienced dev team that never heard of the Homeworld series would have to be hired to create the abomination called Homeworld 3. They will have to make up a ridiculous, and utterly pointless story continuing where HW2 left off... They will focus completely on eye candy, state of the art graphics, and lots of pretty explosions, but forget all about GAME PLAY! You know? that thing that made the original Homeworld a classic! Following the current trend of Big Name Gaming they will release it when it is in an unplayable pre-alpha state (after receiving a ton of pre-orders), and promise to patch it to a "playable" 1.0 state within a year. Dealing with the litany of complaints, and refunds for releasing an unfinished product all the while. But no matter how much they polish that turd.. It will still remain a turd.

I say leave Homeworld alone! Each successive "sequel" was progressively worse than the original. If anything port the original classic game into a modern engine. Only then will Homeworld be worth it. Until that time ill just play the classic.

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 3

One faction formed Kerberos (creators of Sword of the Stars). The other faction became Ironclad.

I didn't know that. Well, that will explain the similarities in the three games....

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Just signed. although i doubt it is going to change THQs mind, they want the game to be sold in millions, 10 000 is laughable number for them.

@ Major Stress> You are way too cynical. The creators of the original HW may be gone, but they are not the only capable and talented people in the industry. I suppose Company of Heroes was created at Relic by totally different people than HW and the game is not half bad.

I say, we have nothing to lose. At worst the game will end up being shit, i will not hesitate to ignore it in such case, problem solved. It might though, by chance, end up being good and i would take that chance, as its better than nothing.

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I loved Homeworld and I actually enjoyed the dynamics of Cataclysm. Although it was a mixed bag of hits and misses, I did enjoy Homeworld 2. So I'm not in a bad place with the series as a whole. I even had an idea what I would like to see for a Homeworld 3, but the truth is that there is a growing margin for error as any series goes on. That being said, I wouldn't support a Homeworld 3 in as much as when a studio is forced because of money or fandom rather than passion, it seems more likely to produce a poor product.

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 3

I say leave Homeworld alone! Each successive "sequel" was progressively worse than the original. If anything port the original classic game into a modern engine. Only then will Homeworld be worth it. Until that time ill just play the classic.

I completely agree, something like a Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary for Homeworld would be amazing.

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Is it really being too cynical to go by what i see all too much of lately in the PC gaming industry? Especially by big name company's like EA, or THQ who would only be interested in making a quick buck off the Homeworld name, and force Relic to release it now, Now! NOW!! Who cares if the game worked, or not. We already saw the disaster that was Sword of the Stars II. A game with much promise force released way too soon by the publisher, and busted beyond all reason. There are many other games that had a similar fate. Way too many, but SoTS II right now has the misfortune to stand out above the rest at the moment. Which is sad, because i really liked SoTS 1.

If the original developers of HW signed on, or there was a team with equal, or greater talent that had passion for the IP, and the game, If they stuck to their guns by not releasing until they were absolutely sure it was ready to be released, and focused on game play instead of making a quick buck off the Homeworld franchise. Then i would be all for it, and probably would be the 1st in line to get it. After the disappointment that was HW2 i am not holding my breath.

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 8

Is it really being too cynical to go by what i see all too much of lately in the PC gaming industry? Especially by big name company's like EA, or THQ who would only be interested in making a quick buck off the Homeworld name, and force Relic to release it now, Now! NOW!! Who cares if the game worked, or not. We already saw the disaster that was Sword of the Stars II. A game with much promise force released way too soon by the publisher, and busted beyond all reason. There are many other games that had a similar fate. Way too many, but SoTS II right now has the misfortune to stand out above the rest at the moment. Which is sad, because i really liked SoTS 1.

Another one of those recent disasters was Stronghold 3 by Firefly Studios, which has got to be one of the biggest letdowns in gaming history. One of the most anticipated games in history, and what does Firefly Studios do, decide no skirmish was a good idea, try to pass of an alpha build as the finish product, and I suspect 7Sixty probably got tired of Firefly Studios delaying things and forced them to release it as is. The Stronghold series has so gone downhill since Crusader, and though Stronghold 2 was eventually playable, it went overboard on the sim side of things. So if THQ decides to do HW3, they had better do it right or not even bother.

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why do you guys dont like HW2 so much anyway? Granted, the original HW game was the best one in the series, i consider it myself to be the best one. But i do not hold HW2 as a failure. IMHO it kept lot of positives from the original game, it kept its brilliant artistic style, music, the voice-over and gameplay mechanics for the most part, i felt it had more thought-out multiplayer component. The only part, where it IMHO "failed" in comparison to original, was the story, which really was nowhere near as compelling as the original (which was not very original itself though, see BSG)...but was that such a big surprise? How many sequels to brilliant movies have better story than the original?

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Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 10

where it IMHO "failed" in comparison to original, was the story, which really was nowhere near as compelling as the original (which was not very original itself though, see BSG)...

BSG and Homeworld pull from the bible. The original was Exodus, including many famous sites encountered during the exodus, such as Kadesh. Homeworld 2 was using Revelations and applying the Trinity. The story was no more original than the first and vice versa.

I actually felt the story was one of the better parts. I thought the rebalance of vessel roles and tactical options (although I did like having two slightly more unique races) was weak and prefered the radio voices and lack of facial images presented in the original. Beyond that, I was content.

P.S. Even with the same team working on a sequel, I expect that it will not be all that the original is and allow a certain margin for that reason. After all, an original has the advantage of setting the standard wherever it chooses.

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Quoting Draakjacht,

reply 11

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 10 where it IMHO "failed" in comparison to original, was the story, which really was nowhere near as compelling as the original (which was not very original itself though, see BSG)...

BSG and Homeworld pull from the bible. The original was Exodus, including many famous sites encountered during the exodus, such as Kadesh. Homeworld 2 was using Revelations and applying the Trinity. The story was no more original than the first and vice versa.

I actually felt the story was one of the better parts. I thought the rebalance of vessel roles and tactical options (although I did like having two slightly more unique races) was weak and prefered the radio voices and lack of facial images presented in the original. Beyond that, I was content.

P.S. Even with the same team working on a sequel, I expect that it will not be all that the original is and allow a certain margin for that reason. After all, an original has the advantage of setting the standard wherever it chooses.

Is it that part of Bible about Moses and fleeing from Egypt, taking Red Sea apart etc...? Was Kadesh (literally) in Bible?

I liked the lack of "faces" in HW 1 better too. it left some space for imagination Do not recall the difference in radio-voices, was there any? Have not played it in ages. Anyway i liked the first HW in this regard, definitely.

Finally vessel roles, its open to discussion. i never played the multiplayer lot enough to make some definitive judgements, but from my limited experience the bigger emphasis on the multiplayer part and more difference between factions was clearly visible, so i considered it a plus.

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Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 12

Is it that part of Bible about Moses and fleeing from Egypt, taking Red Sea apart etc...? Was Kadesh (literally) in Bible?

During The Wilderness Years

Under the leadership of Moses and Aaron, the Israelites remained around Kadesh for many years between the time of the Exodus and the entry into the Promised Land:

"So you remained at Kadesh many days, the days that you remained there." (Deuteronomy 1:46 RSV)
"And the time from our leaving Kadesh-barnea until we crossed the brook Zered was thirty-eight years, until the entire generation, that is, the men of war, had perished from the camp, as The Lord had sworn to them." (Deuteronomy 2:14 RSV)

Kadesh had a great deal of conflict with the Egyptian Empire, hence the characteristic of the Kadeshi hiding from those who are after them, a common enemy of the exiles. Kadesh was a Semitic city, meaning 'The Holy City' by those who worshipped Qetesh, one of the Semetic pantheon prior to the Covenant.

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Quoting Timmaigh,

reply 10

why do you guys dont like HW2 so much anyway? Granted, the original HW game was the best one in the series, i consider it myself to be the best one.

I have my own reasons for not liking HW2. After having only played the demo, the voice work was abysmal, the practical elimination of support by it only being on resource collectors in an inferior state, and the flimsy nature of frigates. The only things I liked about HW2, were the vastly improved interface, strike craft squadrons, and the prevalence of hangars.

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Isn't Sins of a Solar Empire the logical evolution of Homeworld? Could someone correct me on why that isn't the case?

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Comparing Sins, and Homeworld is like comparing Apples, and Oranges. They have similarity, but they are not the same.

Sins is a game focused more on "grand strategy" like most 4x's are. While Homeworld is also strategy game. However Homeworld is more focused on the tactical aspect of a local battlefield. Not an entire galaxy like sins.

Sins can be considered an evolution. I can see Homeworld going this route if they maintained the franchise.

I Hated the HW2 interface! I preferred the separate windows for the build, and research screens of HW1. That didnt detract from the game at all IMO. It left the main view of HW1 quite literally unobstructed. No big ass side, and bottom bars taking up 1/2 the damn screen. I can focus on the action in HW1 without menus getting in my way. Some say that they didnt like that there was no UI in HW1.. EXACTLY! to me that was Homeworld classics best feature! Next to the adjustable formations, and tactics settings.

I did like the graphical updates, and how HW2 rethought strike craft, but i am with Zeta. The frigates were pathetic, and way too squishy. Even at max research. Plus not having support frigs, and corvettes to me was a big minus too. The "subsystem targeting" needed more work. I was really pissed that they took off the cap ships point defense systems (or they just plain didnt function right. It took a MOD to fix it). The music of HW2 didnt suit the game ether. It was like relic took the Kushan/Higarans, and turned them into space ghandi's (i know they are desert dwellers, but i seriously?).

The SP campaign was the most abysmal part. How many freaking times did we have to rescue Captain Soban? How many times did fleet intelligence find an impenetrable fortress, but yet miraculously "found a weakness". I dont even want to talk about "sajuuk"... Well yea i do.. Bring the freaking B.F.G. to bear.. BRING THE FREAKING B.F.G. TO BEAR!

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 16

I Hated the HW2 interface! I preferred the separate windows for the build, and research screens of HW1. That didnt detract from the game at all IMO. It left the main view of HW1 quite literally unobstructed. No big ass side, and bottom bars taking up 1/2 the damn screen. I can focus on the action in HW1 without menus getting in my way. Some say that they didnt like that there was no UI in HW1.. EXACTLY! to me that was Homeworld classics best feature! Next to the adjustable formations, and tactics settings.

When I say interface, I mean things like being able to switch from the manager screens, like sensors to building with the hotkeys, without having to return to the standard gameplay screen. The quirks that a more modern engine fixed. Other than that, I don't much care for HW2.

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 16

I Hated the HW2 interface!

could go either way on this. I adapted.

Quoting Major Stress,

reply 16

I did like the graphical updates, and how HW2 rethought strike craft, but i am with Zeta. The frigates were pathetic, and way too squishy. Even at max research. Plus not having support frigs, and corvettes to me was a big minus too. The "subsystem targeting" needed more work. I was really pissed that they took off the cap ships point defense systems (or they just plain didnt function right. It took a MOD to fix it). The music of HW2 didnt suit the game ether. It was like relic took the Kushan/Higarans, and turned them into space ghandi's (i know they are desert dwellers, but i seriously?).

Liked the graphics.

Not big on auto squads.

frigates and destroyers were both too squishy.

wanted support craft and fuel.

okay with subsystem targeting.

I liked the music.

Quoting Major Stress,

reply 16

The SP campaign was the most abysmal part. How many freaking times did we have to rescue Captain Soban? How many times did fleet intelligence find an impenetrable fortress, but yet miraculously "found a weakness". I dont even want to talk about "sajuuk"... Well yea i do.. Bring the freaking B.F.G. to bear.. BRING THE FREAKING B.F.G. TO BEAR!

Liked the overall story. Didn't like having to save anyone repeatedly, much less having named characters. They did point out the solutions way too often. I like having to feel out the situation. I used the dreadnought and sajuuk to devastating effect, but I can see why sajuuk was saved for the last. Made the planet killers easy.

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Quoting Major Stress,

reply 16

Comparing Sins, and Homeworld is like comparing Apples, and Oranges. They have similarity, but they are not the same.

Sins is a game focused more on "grand strategy" like most 4x's are. While Homeworld is also strategy game. However Homeworld is more focused on the tactical aspect of a local battlefield. Not an entire galaxy like sins.

Sins can be considered an evolution. I can see Homeworld going this route if they maintained the franchise.

I Hated the HW2 interface! I preferred the separate windows for the build, and research screens of HW1. That didnt detract from the game at all IMO. It left the main view of HW1 quite literally unobstructed. No big ass side, and bottom bars taking up 1/2 the damn screen. I can focus on the action in HW1 without menus getting in my way. Some say that they didnt like that there was no UI in HW1.. EXACTLY! to me that was Homeworld classics best feature! Next to the adjustable formations, and tactics settings.

I did like the graphical updates, and how HW2 rethought strike craft, but i am with Zeta. The frigates were pathetic, and way too squishy. Even at max research. Plus not having support frigs, and corvettes to me was a big minus too. The "subsystem targeting" needed more work. I was really pissed that they took off the cap ships point defense systems (or they just plain didnt function right. It took a MOD to fix it). The music of HW2 didnt suit the game ether. It was like relic took the Kushan/Higarans, and turned them into space ghandi's (i know they are desert dwellers, but i seriously?).

The SP campaign was the most abysmal part. How many freaking times did we have to rescue Captain Soban? How many times did fleet intelligence find an impenetrable fortress, but yet miraculously "found a weakness". I dont even want to talk about "sajuuk"... Well yea i do.. Bring the freaking B.F.G. to bear.. BRING THE FREAKING B.F.G. TO BEAR!

I suppose, i have a lower threshold or something, cause i agree with you basically on every point, especially the interface part, but unlike you in the end i consider the game to be ok. The music with middle-eastern motives was IMHO fine, it kept the line with some of the original HW tunes and gave overall the HW universe its middle-eastern feeling, which i quite liked, it gave the universe certain level of uniqueness compared to Star Trek, Babylon 5, Conflict Freespace and others... still as with everything else, overall the music of original HW was better and more varied, i totally loved the "Kharak" tune, which played in the very first mission of the game, or the spooky one from Karos Graveyard. And then OFC Adagio of Strings and the Homeworld of Yes in the credits, one of my fav songs ever...

...frell me, that game was utterly brilliant, i wonder if the guys behind it realize, what a masterpiece they created. If it was movie or book, it would be a cult by now.

BTW i agree that possible direction for next Homeworld game is the one, Ironclad took with Sins. Alternatively they might want to go other way, Dawn of War 2/Nexus style. Personally would prefer if they chose the Sins way, i can imagine choosing either Hiigarans, Taiidans or Vaygr and lead them toward the galactic dominance, how awesome would that be...

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Two things.

One is that the in-game music of HW2 was still very similar to the original, but given that even the original was very subtle as not to detract from the gameplay, it makes sense that it would go unnoticed. The cinematics and cut-scenes where you did notice the music is actually Indian, not Middle Eastern. The primary instrument being the sarangi.

Second is that if Homeworld were to keep the tactical level of gameplay (use of Z axis as well as abilities and formations), then I feel it would be better served if it were structured like the Total War series. This would allow the fine tactical control one is accustomed to while still being able to play on a grand level. I think the RTS style of Sins would become cumbersome, especially during multiple engagements.

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Quoting Draakjacht,

reply 20

Two things.

One is that the in-game music of HW2 was still very similar to the original, but given that even the original was very subtle as not to detract from the gameplay, it makes sense that it would go unnoticed. The cinematics and cut-scenes where you did notice the music is actually Indian, not Middle Eastern. The primary instrument being the sarangi.

Second is that if Homeworld were to keep the tactical level of gameplay (use of Z axis as well as abilities and formations), then I feel it would be better served if it were structured like the Total War series. This would allow the fine tactical control one is accustomed to while still being able to play on a grand level. I think the RTS style of Sins would become cumbersome, especially during multiple engagements.

Yeah, my bad, in my language we tend to call Arabic countries/Israel as "Close" East and then India/Central Asia as Middle East, so that is what i meant.

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Yea IMO the music was a little "too" Indian/Middle Eastern. I understand why the theme was used, because the Kushan from HW1 were desert dwellers. The problem was the music didnt really fit into a high tech space combat scenario. Just felt too out of place. On some of MP maps the music became outright annoying. That is just my opinion.

The HW1 soundtrack IMO was far superior, Fit almost flawlessly into each scenario. Including the "strings". For the first game Relic ever created. They may not have known what they were doing, but by sheer luck they did it right.

Perhaps with HW2 they may have tried "too" hard. Remember the game that would have become HW:Dustwars was in development for a year, or so then it was scrapped. Then Relic came back to it, but had little time to finish. So they slapped together what they could which became HW2 using some of the concepts of Dustwars (mainly the Vayger). The game felt "rushed", and it was very obvious that HW2 was rushed out the door. Lets not forget the meltdown a former Relic PR person had over HW2. Went something like "Why should we bother to go out of our way to appease people just for a game that might sell only 1000 copys. We got better things to do", or something to that matter. I am sure the meltdown is on the net somewhere. Needless to say that PR person quit/was fired.

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love homeworld2 and 1. Especially with hw2's graphics and effects mod.

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I loved the originals (didn't care for expansions) but I don't think it can be done justice really. I much rather have a game with the same type of gameplay, but not call it homeworld. Ie, giant population-carrier ship travelling across the stars towards an unknown destiny, marshalling an ever depleting fleet. Sounds a bit like battlestar galactica actually.

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If Relic wants to truly capitalize on Homeworld they should re-make the original classic (including the Raiders Retreat missions) on a modern 3d engine with all the bells, and whistles that go along with it. Same great game play, but far better looking. Everyone is happy.

The thing about HW1, it is totally enjoyable "without" mods. With HW2 i cant play the game without a some kind of mod. I enjoyed it when the PDS mod was exactly that. The Enabling of, and the focusing of point defense systems. I disliked the direction it took afterwards. Some mods like Warlords, and now the latest Trek mod have improved upon the graphics engine itself. It is kind of a pity that the mod team that was porting HW1 over failed. Point is HW2 is not that enjoyable in itself. Like HW1 was.

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