The Definitive Sedna Guide

and discussion

By on July 19, 2010 8:49:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

awuffleable...

Join Date 04/2009
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Sedna is a fun character, and a strong support character. However, a lot of people don't seem to know how to play her, or play her sub-optimally. Though I'm rather set in my ways, this is a thread that will hopefully discuss all thing Sedna-related and cover some other gameplay elements that other people use. It is also very very long. 

If I get some good replays, I'll attach them to the OP but I rarely play nowadays (and all my good replays are 1.2). This will also probably be a bit "meatier" than the other guides you see floating around, similar to Teseer's TB build-thread (which I hope this will grow to be like). I think that's partially because Sedna and TB are less straightforward than, say, UB. More variety of builds and you can't just right click and win. 

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Outline of OP: 

I. Skill Builds (in order of "viableness")

   A. Blood-Silence

   B. Blood-Tank

   C. Cloak-Pounce

   D. Cape-Support

   E. Swift-Sedna

   F. Minion-Sedna

   G. Tweaking to counter your opponents

II. Item Discussion

III. Ability Breakdown and Advice

IV. Metagame Discussion

   A. When to Pick Sedna

   B. Dealing with Minion Builds

   C. Dealing with Kiting

   D. Relative powerlevel and role throughout the game

V. 1v1 and 2v2 Lane Skirmishes

VI. Notable Quotes from other players

VII. Replays

 

I. Skill Builds

Because Sedna has several viable builds, I usually will save my favor item choice for the first minute of the game just to see what other favors and level-1 skills everyone else got before committing to a favor (and then a build). 90% of the time I go Blood and Heal for level 1 but sometimes other skill and favor choices are better. Wait and see. 

If you see a low HP TB who uses RoI he is probably BotS. 

If you see a spirit ward, assume Minion Oak. 

Etc. 

Blood-Silence:

This build is the strongest build I've used against T1 characters and assassin builds (Erebus, UB, Assassin Oak, and so on)

Favor: BotF (Blood of the Fallen)

1. Heal I

2. Healing Wind I

3. Pounce I

4. Heal II

5. Healing Wind II

6. Silence I

7. Heal III

8. Counter Healing

9. SAVE

10. Heal IV + Silence II

11. Mag. Presence I

12. Mag. Presence II

13. Inner Grace I 

14. SAVE

15. Mag. Presence III + Silence III 

16. Pounce II

17. Pounce III

18. Pounce IV

19. Inner Grace II

20. Inner Grace III 

Advantages: 

- Good survivability. You function as a tank

- Dirt cheap build enables you to buy currency without gimping yourself

- This build is able to utilize Nature's Reckoning very well since it has such high attrition-resistance

- Silence-Port makes you hard to kill, even when ganked

- Blood covers Sedna's major flaw (low hp) which lets you invest in armor to cover her other flaws (lack of AoE)

Disadvantages:

- Poor outgoing damage (autoattack only and Sedna has a poor auto attack)

- Slow, so you have to be aware of the map to watch for ganks

- Unable to secure kills 1v1 (400 pounce is laughable)

- Low failure tolerance. Your "oh-shit" button is Silence-Port and that isn't always available 

- Heavy dependence on Silence makes this build easy to misuse. 

Best against:

- Typical Assassin builds (Assassin Oak, Erebus, Hybrid UB, etc) 

- Casters (Occulus, TB) - Silence is brutal against Occulus

- Aggressive players (Silence punishes overextension)

Best with:

- High damage output assassins (TB, UB). You can support them and keep them alive, and secure kills with Silence and prevent pots/ports with pounce. Magnificent Presence scales wonderfully. 

- When you're the only major support demigod (no Queen or Oak)

Weak against:

- Ooze UB - If you see a UB isn't spitting, level up pounce instead of Silence, though getting up to Heal IV is still worth it

- Rook - See Cloak-Pounce below

Ideal items:

- Only need Vlemish as your helm. Nature's Recknoning is very effective in this build. I usually get Scailmail + NR with my first 2k if I didn't buy Currency. 

- If they are focusing on you (with skills), replace Scailmail with an HP item (Haubrek or whatever). If you're doing a lot of 1v1 with a heavy emphasis on AA, keep Scailmail. If they are focusing on your teammates usually, get mana items before hp items (Vlemish before Nimoths).


Blood-Tank: (Saul-Tigh)

This build is an outright tank.  It is an aggressive build and your role is to lean heavily on towers and set up ganks.  You can extend further and stay in battles longer, allowing time to set up kills.  You will go into harms way with this build and make yourself appear vulnerable when you are not.  You will then hold the line and soak up attacks and make your opponents waste mana until your teammates arrive.


Favor: BotF (Blood of the Fallen)

1. Heal I

2. Healing Wind I

3. Pounce I

4. Heal II

5. Healing Wind II

6. Inner Grace I

7. Heal III

8. Counter Healing

9. Inner Grace II

10. Heal IV

11. Pounce II

12. Pounce III

13. Pounce IV

14. Inner Grace III

15. Silence or Mag Presence, although games hardly ever get this far

Advantages: 
- Best survivability. You function as a tank

- Healing rate is so high you can attack towers without losing health

- HP stacking maximizes benefit of Bishops and Sigils

- Heal will keep you alive while luring victims and keep your teammates alive when they pursue

- High failure tolerance.  Sigil will be your escape instead of Silence

Disadvantages:

- Poor outgoing damage (autoattack only and Sedna has a poor auto attack)

- Unable to secure kills 1v1 (400 pounce is laughable)

- Silence is great and flexible, and you will need to recognize whether you need to get it

- Much less effective without reasonably experienced teammates.

- Expensive!

Best against:

- Typical Assassin builds (Assassin Oak, Erebus, Hybrid UB, etc) 

- DPS builds (Fury Reg, Fire TB)

- Aggressive players (High healing allows you to lure enemies into overextending)

- Slow minion builds

Best with:

- High damage output assassins (TB, UB). You can support them and keep them alive, and secure kills with healing and prevent pots/ports with pounce. 

- Teammates that carry ports. 

- When you're the only major support demigod (no Queen or Oak)

Weak against:

- Stun chainers.  UB Erebus or UB Rook combos can lock you out of your abilities for too long to recover

- Minion Oak.  Once a minion Oak picks up steam, can anyone really counter him?

- Tower Rook.  Low DPS means tearing up towers takes forever

- Sedna.  Her counterhealing neutralizes your bishops and take away your biggest advantage.

Ideal items:

- Bishops first, after monks.  The first upgrade that you will get is Bishops at 1,900 gold.  Two reasons:  First Bishops have 600 HP more than Monks and they are very difficult to kill with AoEs until higher levels.  Consider that Occ needs 2 chain lightnings at level 4 to kill monks taking only 6 seconds.  It takes 4 to kill bishops.  Likely by the time he gets to the 4th one, your healing aura has healed them up to take a fifth!  If you go in for bishops around level 5, you'll go from a 10% heal to a 22% heal.  Also if you're splitting monks, the higher HP on the bishops will make your life much easier.

- UnB boots and Banded - 1000 HP and 800 Mana for 2,000 gold.  Natural healing will suffice that you won't need to spam heals.  Extra health amplifies bishops and HW2

- Vlemish for 1,750 gold.  All mana issues now resolved

- Nimoth + Hauberk for 3,250.  Expensive but worth it.  1,100 extra health, 750 armor and 200 HP for your bishops.  You will be in the 5 to 6,000 HP range and bishops will heal over 1,000 HP per proc.

Get TPs and locks as needed.  Get Sigils once the lane pushing game starts.  Bishops will heal massively when sigil is activated.  In many cases you will be back to full health after a sigil ends.  Other than that, all other money into the citadel.

Cloak-Pounce:

Cloak of Night allows you to use both Heal and Pounce since it's basically an extra helm. It also lets you support your lane-partner much better. The biggest advantage of Cloak, however, is that it enables you to pounce a running character: Pounce - Blink in front of them - autoattack - Pounce to finish.

For this reason, I consider doing this build, but with Blood instead of Cloak a poor choice of favor item. You cannot fully utilize Pounce without Cloak of Night, max Inner Grace, Fire Aura or an Oak with Pentitence + Surge. This build is also much better for mana side rather than health side, so I suggest going this build while on mana (which is usually not the best idea).

You cannot really utilize Healing Wind II without Blood and if you're on mana-side you can be selfish and get Inner Grace instead of Healing Wind which helps you fight and cap more than Healing Wind. 

1. Heal I (I occasionally see people getting Pounce level 1. I don't like it, but YMMV)

2. Pounce I (try to save your pounces until Pounce II)

3. Inner Grace I 

4. Pounce II 

5. Silence I

6. Heal II

7. Pounce III 

8. Healing Wind I

9. Healing Wind II (you now have HP items and levels so Healing Wind is useful)

10. Pounce IV

11. Mag. Presence I

12. Mag. Presence II

13. Heal III

14. Inner Grace II

15. Mag. Presence III

16. Heal IV

17. Counter Healing (I don't get Counter Healing earlier with this build unless someone else gets Bishops, you are a Glass Cannon and you usually don't fight long enough to reap the benefits. Anyway, usually by now everyone has large enough AoE that you are melting enemy monks) 

18. Inner Grace III

19. Silence II (increasing Silence isn't as useful since you can blink away and it just increases your already heavy mana consumption, even though it's only 100 more mana per level)

20. Silence III 

Advantages:

- Decent damage output, especially once you have MP maxed out. 

- Keeping Heal low-level means that even though it's not very large, you almost always have enough mana to heal a buddy who needs it, even if it only barely helps (on the other hand, most alpha strikes deal about 1k hp. Heal II is almost 1k hp and so it's enough to negate one nuke). This allows you to nuke someone while keeping your ally just barely alive. Once you get Healing Wind II, you usually don't have to burn heals too often. 

- Strong mana-side build

Disadvantages:

- Expensive compared to other Sedna builds (you need to get Unbreakables instead of Currency).

- Mana intensive but also low HP. You almost need Plenor but if you get Plenor then you have no more than 4k hp. 

- Cannot use Healing Wind II, Counter-healing, Heal very effectively, which are Sedna's strong points. Nature's Reckoning is also out. 

Best against:

- This build is the strongest build (early game) against Rook. Once he levels up his towers and hammer slam, it'll fall on its face just like all Sedna builds. But until about level 7, you can actually do a decent chunk of damage. It's particularly effective against a Vial Rook who will usually overextending not expecting an early pounce (the only case where I would pick up Pounce level 1 instead of Heal - if you see a low-hp Rook level 1 pick Pounce. Otherwise, go Heal).

- BotS builds (TB in particular. You don't "really" need Heal III against a BotS beast, Healing Wind II will usually be enough to harm him if he tries to Spit-kite you) 

- Speed builds. Cloak of Night provides a greater combat advantage than Swift and allows you to chase someone who is faster than you

- 3v3s against 1 or more minion builds. If it's 2v2 Swift-Sedna or Amulet of Teleportation is better

Best with: 

- Demigods reliant on you for dealing damage (Queen, Regulus)

- Oak. Shield covers up having a low-level heal and Pentitence + Pounce is nice

- Occulus. Occ's AoE covers up your flaws and between your Blink and his Bounce you can really chase enemy demigods very well. He also nukes enemy monks left-and-right, and can Bounce away if he gets in danger. You can also do this with Erebus, but I hate Erebus + Sedna on the same team. 

- If you're sharing HP side with UB, it's pretty effective because you can constantly heal him. If you're doing this, then usually it's better to go Cloak of Night with the Blood Silence build listed above, but you can do this build as well. 

Weak against:

- Another Sedna. My build completely shuts this build down. 

- Early game: HP Stacking builds. Blood-Rook, Blood-UB, Blood-Erebus. Pounce I tickles them, which means you have to run around like a pansy until you get Pounce II. It takes awhile for your damage output to equal their HP (though remember Heal + Pounce does a LOT of swing very fast so mid-game it's more doable)

- End-game. This build struggles during the end-game (more than Blood Silence). Basically, this game sacrifices a Blood Sedna's strong level 1-5 and 10-15 in exchange for a stronger 4-10.

Ideal Items:

- Prioritize Unbreakables in this build.

- Get Siege Archers/Gunner because they help you farm. 

- Try to get by on just one helm, if you can. Plenor + Cloak + Vlemish is overkill. But Vlemish + Cloak is "barely enough" it feels like. Unbreakables + Scaled Helm is probably your best bet for your first two items, then get Nimoths + Banded + Archers later on.

Cape-Support:

Super hero Sedna! This is a very very support orientated build that basically makes you a slave to your teammates. It's very much a niche build and I only ever do it on a few matchups, but it does have it's role... 

I use this build in Rook + Sedna mirrors, or if I'm sharing a Rook in a lane. It's usually best if that Rook goes Staff of Renewal, but Vial can also work. Blood Rook or BotS Rook has poor synergy with this build. 

You can also use it on Levitation while sharing a lane with a UB. Tell the UB to not get mana helms, get Staff of Renewal and then you act as his portable mana-pot. But it doesn't work quite as well as compared to sharing a lane with a Rook. 

Favor: Cape of Plentiful Mana

1. Heal I

2. Healing Wind I

3. Inner Grace I 

4. Heal II

5. Healing Wind II

6. Magnificent Presence I

7. Heal III

8. Silence I (Boulder Roll + Hammerslam -> Silence) 

9. SAVE

10. Heal IV + Mag. Presence II

11. Pounce I

12. Pounce II

13. Pounce III

14. Pounce IV

15. Mag. Presence III

16. Counter Healing (CH isn't very useful while paired with a Rook or against a Rook since monks are either dead or out of range)

17. Inner Grace II

18. Inner Grace III

19. Silence II

20. Silence III

Advantages:

- You're a walking mana and health pot and a celerity flag. You are a god of support and Rooks will love you (especially once they get Vlemish). Your teammates will love you. 

- DIRT CHEAP build. So cheap. OMG. 

Disadvantages:

- The other team will hate you and try to kill you over and over and over again (if they are smart). Hence why you get Inner Grace I. You're also rather low hp early-mid game.

- You lack a serious interrupt or combat ability for most of the game. Your early game HP is too low to really fight, and you don't get Pounce until late (though you'll have MP which means you can use it a lot). 

Best against: 

- This build isn't so much focused to counter the enemy as opposed to supporting your teammates as much as possible. You aren't much of a fighter with this build, especially since you can pretty easily get both Regen and Currency. 

Best with:

- Staff of Renewal Rook - you can hide in his towers and he will love you forever.  Fire TB likes the cooldown reduction, gets a large benefit from Healing Wind and Fire Aura helps keep you alive. You are sacrificing your individual early and mid game performance to double his and once your build hits around level 11,12 you're pretty damn strong by yourself too. 

- "Heavy Hitter" demigods (Rook, TB, UB) 

- Has decent synergy with Occulus as well since Cape fixes his early-game mana issues, but I think Cloak-Pounce is better since Occulus can't help you if you get ganked. 

Weak against:

- Beware DA, Occulus, Erebus and UB. They will want your blood. So badly. But, they don't directly "counter" you s'long as you can hide behind Rook. Occulus is the only real risk of these four. 

- Again, you aren't really much of a fighter. Avoid 1v1 combat until you are sufficiently HP stacked. 

Ideal items:

- Get Regen + Currency at first, it's not a problem. 

- Get Scaled Helm and then just start building up HP. Ignore armor (except for Nimoth). 

- Don't get Nature's Reckoning if you're paired with a Rook (or against a Rook, either). Replace it with an HP item.

- You only need Vlemish as a mana item. Once you have 4 HP slots (including Unbreakables) + Vlemish you can actually fight because you're like my Blood Silence build but with huge mana regen in exchange for a little bit of HP. 

Swift-Sedna:

I call this mostly just a 2v2 build. It focuses usually on portal harassment and running around the map constantly (typically drawing ports). I have seen it used effectively in 3v3, but usually only if paired with a UB. Otherwise, I would keep it to 2v2.

There is no real skill tree that I'm going to leave here because I very rarely use it and it is a very flexible build that you can change as the game goes on (invest in Silence, Heal, Healing Wind, Inner Grace or Pounce). It runs into the same problems a Cloak-Pounce build does with Healing Wind and Silence except Swift Sedna doesn't have the extra mana pool and regen Cloak offers, so she struggles more early game. I would just play around with it and see how it works if you insist on using Swift Anklet, but I would probably do a build similar to Blood-Silence.

It's best purpose is against minion builds, in particular 2x minion builds. 

If you're doing a 2v2 and faced with double minion builds (Oak + Erebus), this is my build (the only time I ever use Swift Anklet): 

Favor: Swift Anklet (you can also use Amulet of Teleportation with this exact build)

1. Heal I

2. Healing Wind I

3. Inner Grace I

4. SAVE

5. Inner Grace II + Healing Wind II (You don't need Silence, Heal or Pounce against early-game minion builds, you just need speed and regen)

6. Heal II (use it on yourself when overwhelmed by minions or when you blitz through the towers. Just dive in and run). 

7. Pounce I

8. Inner Grace III

9. Pounce II

10. Pounce III <- Hunt down the minion users. You have a +30% speed bonus which should let you easily outrun any enemy minions. Also, run around for portals. 

11. Pounce IV

12. Silence I

13. Heal III

14. Heal IV

15. Life's Child <- Only time this ability is ever worth it 

16. Mag. Presence I

17. Mag. Presence II

18. Mag. Presence III

19. Counter Healing (minion monks are usually far away from the users though it does help them not heal eachother too)

20. Silence II 

 

Focus on getting Bishops, and lots of armor rather than just HP. Don't get any mana (live on just Unbreakables and NR). Journeyman's is your goal, so try to get that soon. (Eg, Have Scailmail, NR, Unbreakables, Nimoths, Banded, Bishops then sell Banded for Journeymans). You can also use Wand of Speed instead. 

Investing 550 gold in Siege Archers will let you farm while you run in circles being raped by minions. 

Then buy locks, ports, and go minion-user hunting, and try to cap their portals as much as you can. Just dive in there. You're fast enough that the towers will only hit you 3-4 times, which a single heal will fix. If you capture both their portals, the Warscore and gold will just poor in, which lets you get Catapults as soon as you possibly can. 

Minion-Sedna:

Mostly a joke 2v2 build, as it's shutdown by a lot of other demigods (Oak, UB, Occulus, TB, Queen). However, it can be used against a Rook with limited success  and it's actually pretty effective against another Sedna or DA. 

Yetis are useless, so don't get them. However, going full minion build isn't quite as anti-combat as other minion builds. You can use Heal from a pretty long distance away from combat, Healing Wind II can cover your supporting monks. All-in-all you're more useful in a 2v2 fight than most other minion builds. 

Ring of Divine Might also lets you farm quickly and lets you do an impressive amount of damage. It's fun because Sedna's role is almost completely inverted. She can creep great and do good damage, but can't survive a long engagement at all.

Play like any normal minion build. Siege Demolishers + Gloves of Brutality + Gloves of Fel Daekur. Kill them half a mile away, run around and cap things. Get Wand of Speed to make yourself and your minions run faster. Best played while drunk (I only play minion builds while buzzed )

Favor: Ring of Divine Might

1. SAVE

2. Healing Wind I + Morale I

3. Inner Grace I

4. Morale II

5. Healing Wind II

6. Morale III

7. Heal I

8. Morale IV

9. Magnificient Presence I

10. Morale V

11. Inner Grace II

12. Inner Grace III

13. Mag. Presence II

14. SAVE

15. Morale VI + Mag. Presence III

16. Heal II

17. Silence I

18. Heal III

19. Heal IV

20. Pounce I

Tweaking to Counter:

So... you picked some favor item and item build and it's working okay... until all of a sudden everything changes and you're raped! Well... that's probably just because you suck or they just shopped while you are floating 4k gold (something I do alot... "oh I have full mana and hp! I can take these guys... oh crap")

In general, you'll want to always prioritize Heal, Healing Wind. But sometimes, you have to identify when to ditch points in one ability to dump it into another one (most commonly Pounce or Inner Grace). Don't get locked into a build or mindset (save pounce for interrupt! It's one of my gameplay flaws that I rarely pounce enough). Know when to switch things around, especially items. 

Inner Grace is useful when you're getting focused down a lot from ranged units, and it's extremely useful against another Sedna (where pounce is useless because Heal >>> Pounce and they can just Silence and port away), or if you are doing a lot of capping (mana side). However, if all you're doing is fighting on top of flags, or someone else is being focused, Silence is a better choice. 

Silence isn't too useful against AA builds, minion builds or Reg. So if you see a Pure Ooze UB, Autoattack (+ Mines) Reg or a Precision DA it's usually better to invest those points into Inner Grace or Pounce. 

Magnificent Presence is only useful if you and your allies are USING abilities. If you're constantly oom (or dead), being chain-stunned, or paired with a minion or AA build or playing against a speed build who is just running around, it's usually better to invest those points into Inner Grace (or build up Pounce first and then build up Mag. Presence)

Heal is less useful against minion builds (eg, if there is a mixed team of 1 minion and 1 assassin build), it's usually better to level up Pounce so you and your teammate can spike down the solo assassin. Other than that, though, it's usually best to try to build up Heal. 

Healing Wind is almost always universally useful. The only time that it isn't is if you're solo'ing a lane and you don't have Blood as a Favor Item (Inner Grace is better than HW on the mana side. You lose 2 hps but in exchange gain capping and chasing advantages). 

II. Choosing Items

Always start with Monks. No, Boots of Speed is not better. No, Banded Armor + Scaled Helm is not better. Whatever you think is better than Monks isn't. Just get monks. Even if you have an ally General. Or even 2! You get monks. They get the items. Tough luck, you're Sedna. Get over it. 

You can get a combat mana potion. I personally don't. I find if you use a combat mana potion, I just back off, wait to level 5, get Healing Wind II then take that flag back since I'm at full mana again. Sure, they got to keep that flag for a minute or two, and that's warscore advantage. But is it worth 150 gold (-50 for capping)? Especially if you DON'T win. Meh. In the scheme of things, 200 gold doesn't really matter. But I've trapped myself before by overextending thinking I can just eat my pot and be fine and died. 

For an average game using my Blood-Silence build my item chioces will be something like this: 

Scailmail + Currency 

Nature's Reckoning (NR) + Scaled Helm + 2x TP 

Unbreakables + Siege Gunners (1050 g)

Nimoths

Scaled Helm -> Vlemish

Bishops/High Priest (unless there is an enemy Sedna).

<Items here, see notes below> 

Priests + BS + Armory OR Angels OR Catapults

<More Items, see notes below> 

Artifact choice (if the game lasts that long):

Sell Nature's Reckoning for Girdle of the Giants (13k, you need 11.8k if you sell NR). 

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Item notes:

- If you have Blood, don't get Banded Armor unless you have literally nothing else to spend your money on. It's useless for Sedna. 

- Narmoth's Ring in exchange for Scailmail is nice, but I very rarely get it (only in Sedna mirrors to replace the money I spend on Bishops). I prefer to run around with Scailmail + Bishops instead and then get Angels or Priests. If you have the cash, Groffling's tends to be better anyway because of the Armor.

- Orb of Defiance is very strong on Sedna. You're focused a lot, and you can Heal -> Orb -> Heal. Monks also heal you while you are Orb'd. You can also 2v1 people at their portals, Heal, Orb, Heal, Silence, then port away. It also gives you a much-needed 500 HP and Armor. But don't get it if someone else already has it, especially a Rook. Personally, I would say Sedna is the second best character to get it, after Rook. Then probably UB. I tend to get it after Giants since you don't usually get the full benefit of it until then. 

- You need Gunners to do damage, and the 1050g ones tend to stay alive long enough to do damage without costing too much. They also do splash damage and mark creeps, helping you farm. If you don't get Nature's Reckoning, be sure to get Gunner so you can farm. But don't bother against an Occulus, Queen or TB. Instead, get Bishops earlier. 

- Get the cheap Minotaur Berserkers (350g) against Regulus, Rook, or Occulus. They are dirt-cheap minesweepers that cost 200 mana to counter a far more expensive ability. Against Occulus, they absorb Chain Lightning for you instead of your monks or creeps. Use them to take a few volleys from Rook Towers. 

- Notice I only use 1 "true helm". NR and Unbreakables both give a decent mana pool, but no regen. 

The "general" rule for Demigod is that for each ability you want to spam every 7 seconds, you need one helm, and you can spam one ability every 15 seconds for "free" with your natural pool and regen. So, an Assassin Oak with Surge + Penitence needs two helms to spam those two abilities, and then Shield is his "free" ability. A pure Ooze UB uses Grasp as his "free" ability. 

Because I only spam Heal, I only need one helm. Silence is a tricky ability and takes practice to use correctly. I only pounce to interrupt, which means I may not even use pounce in a given combat.  So usually between Vlemish + Unbreakables + NR I have enough mana to spam heals, use 1 or 2 Silences (depending on what level I am) and 1 pounce to interrupt a port, lock or potion (since Pounce is dirt-cheap if you leave it unleveled). 

You will have to learn to be careful though, and dependent on Healing Wind II. It takes a bit of practice to learn when you NEED to heal and when you can wait a few seconds for a 1200 hp monk-heal

- Don't always blindly follow my order. Nature's Reckoning is useless both against and with a Rook. Get something else instead. If you're being focused fired a lot, buy more HP items. If your allies are mostly be focused, get Vlemish a little earlier. If you can, keep Scailmail as long as you can. But if you need more HP, you can sell it for something else.

- For Sedna, mana IS health and health is mana. The more HP you have, the more monks heal you, the less often you have to heal yourself, the more mana you have to use for other things. The more mana you have, the more often you can heal yourself and keep yourself alive. On that note, Armor is more effective for Sedna than most everyone else. You have a huge hp bar, which means that Armor gets to absorb more incoming auto-attack damage.

- Journeyman's is good if everyone else on the enemy team is speed stacking, but otherwise I don't get it. The issue is that Sedna and Occulus are the only two demigods that don't have any way to force an engagement. No stuns, no snares. So you can't really "chase and kill" easily. On the other hand, Journeyman's does let you Pounce easier since you're fast. It is pretty useful in 2v2 though, where you can portal harass easily. 

- Hungerlin's is also good, but I usually try to invest more in HP or Armor. Mana is health and health is mana. You don't need to spend 3k to reduce your mana consumption levels when you can spend 3k on Orb of Defiance to not have to use heal at all. I've also noted that a lot of people tend to get it themselves so... might as well mooch. 

- But in both of these cases I usually try to save up for Girdle of the Giants once I have <nice hp item {Narmoths or Grofflings depending on the matchup}>, Nimoth, NR, Vlemish, Unbreakables, Orb of Defiance, Bishops/High Priests, Gunners. It makes a HUGE HUGE difference for Sedna, more than Hungerlin's or Journeyman's. 

- You don't need sigils as early as everyone else, though be sure to get them eventually just in case. Silence + Port is cheaper and faster (since you just go back to base and if you sigil you have to go back to base anyway afterwards). Unless you go Blood, you usually have low hp anyway since Sedna has pretty bad hp/level growth. You usually just don't get the same effect out of it, especially with heal. 

---

How Priests/Monks Work (VITAL for a Sedna):

Every 5 seconds, monks do a for-unit-in-range check. 

First, it will check for allied demigods. If it finds a damaged demigod, it will heal 10/12/13/15% of their max hp. If they are buffed by Healing Wind II, then they heal 15/17/19/22% of their max hp. It will then apply a debuff to the healed demigod that lasts 8 seconds and prevents them from receiving heals from MONKS OF THE SAME LEVEL. This means that both a Cleric and a Monk can heal the same demigod twice. But 2 Monks cannot. 

For this reason, if you are a general and there is a Sedna on your team, you should not purchase Monks as your first purchase. Instead, buy Banded + Scaled Helm, go farm on the mana side and have Sedna split her monks. Once you have 1500 gold, go purchase Clerics and give HER a Cleric. 

High Priests only heal 1% more than Clerics (an 8.3% improvement, ignoring their extra HP, armor and damage). For Sedna, they heal 2% more than Clerics (an 11.8% improvement). Bishops heal 2% more than High Priests (a 15.4% improvement). For Sedna, they heal 3% more than High Priests (a 15.8% improvement).

To maximize your % improvement, if there are 2 generals on your team, the Sedna should ALWAYS get the High Priests, and the other general should get Bishops. Never ever ever the other way around. (11.8 + 15.4) > (8.3 + 15.8). (12.9% more efficient).

The exception to this is if there is an enemy Sedna. In this case, stick with Monks/Clerics instead of High Priests/Bishops. 

If a Priest doesn't find a damaged demigod in range, it will then check itself to see if it is damaged. If it is and will not be "overhealed" (eg, if they only lost 5 hp, and the Monk heals for 200, there isn't much point for it to be healed since it will "overheal" by 195 hp). Priests heal for 200/230/260/290. If it won't overheal, it will heal itself.

Finally, it will go through all the regular units (including other monks), and check to see if they are damage and, if they are healed, will be "overhealed. This means that higher-level'd priests will less often "waste" their heals on grunts because it is easier for them to overheal. 

What this means:

In a 1v1 situation, 2 monks will usually be able to "optimally" heal the Demigod every 8 seconds, even with AoE abilities (because one monk will heal the other, which will then heal the demigod once the debuff expires). However, if there is only 1 monk, it is very susceptible to AoE. Any decent AoE (over 200) will reduce the frequency of the heals by 25% (from every 8 seconds to 10 seconds. It will heal the Demigod, apply the 8 second debuff. 5 seconds later it will heal itself. Then it has to wait 5 seconds to heal you). 

This is one of the reasons why it is worth it to "tag" the enemy monks with your monks, and one of the reasons why NR is so useful for Sedna, even one with Counter Healing. 

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III. Abilities

For exact mana costs, cooldowns, and effects see here: http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/Sedna

Actives:

Heal is awesome. But... it's not that great until you get level III. Heal is one of the most mana-efficient abilities in the game, in terms of "swing per mana". Be careful of an Erebus. A level 4 Erebus with Bite II and Coven I will usually beat you with Heal II. Make sure you use it to clean off debuffs. Wait for the Oak to Pent you, wait for the UB to Spit you. Generally, they won't be able to force you to heal unless they use an ability.  

Pounce is one of the worst offensive abilities in the game. It has no debuffs, no AoE, you can't use it while you are chasing (if you do, they escape auto-attack range), and it's not very mana-efficient compared to other offensive abilities. But, it's a quick interrupt which makes it worth getting. Make sure you use Pounce to interrupt Hammer Slam, Blast Off! and Surge of Faith once there are higher level creeps on the field. However, in general it's more mana-efficient to just eat an ability and heal it off. Remember, if you interrupt them, they keep their mana and you don't!

Silence is probably the strongest level 5 skill in the game, in my opinion. With just one point, you can do SO MUCH bullshit. You can stop sigils, stop ports, safely port away against most demigods (all but DA {Swap}, Ice TB {DF}, Oak {Pent}, UB {Grasp}, Sedna {Silence}). Other abilities (Mass Charm, Pounce, Boulder Roll, Frost Nova) are all too slow casting and even the above abilities require spamming the ability button because they have a tiny tiny window to interrupt. 

However, keep note that Silence is dispelled by Heal III and Shield. This makes mirror Oak + Sedna matches VERY exciting. It's a fun mind game of trying to Silence the other while not being Silenced yourself and making sure to catch them both and trying to interrupt heals and... (Assassin Oak + Sedna mirrors are my favorite games and, honestly, when playing Sedna becomes the most interesting because you HAVE to play differently with an enemy Sedna on the other team. I think you change your playstyle more against a mirror compared to every other demigod except perhaps Rook). 

Use Silence to escape safely from ganks or lock a flag (basically just like Shield III except 2 levels earlier). Use it to stop a sigil or an enemy Shield/Heal. You can also use it to "interrupt" abilities or to guarantee a safe heal. 

Never get Yetis

Passives:

Inner Grace... people think this is an awesome skill... but it isn't. Sadly, it's a newb trap. It provides decent hp regen and speed bonuses, enough to make it look good, but it doesn't work in practice. These are the only a few situations to invest in it early game, or invest more than a one point in it before level 10 (1 points before level 10 isn't a huge deal, the 10 hps isn't too bad, but a second point for just 5 more hps and 5% speed once everyone else has leveld up their snares and spike damage just usually isn't worth it, in my opinion): 

1- oom'd yourself too early (level 1 or 2) and you need the regen badly (happens to the best of us)

2- against minion builds (it's actually good to level it up in this usecase)

3- you're on the mana side (which a Sedna really never should be on ._. There are only a few cases where it makes any sense)

4- you're doing a 2v2 Speed Bullshit build. 

5- Sedna mirrors (investing one point in Inner Grace instead of Pounce is beneficial since it allows you to engage and disengage at will since Sedna doesn't chase properly, and pouncing is stupid against another Sedna, though 2 points are unwise)

If you are newer to Sedna, I would recommend investing in Inner Grace instead of Silence because Silence is just wasting mana if you use it incorrectly and the extra speed makes Sedna slightly more forgiving. However, for any experienced player I would never invest more than one point before level 15, and the rest levels 19-20.

Why do I get it at level 13 in my build? Because I don't yet have the natural mana to spam pounce without buying another helm yet, and I'm still only using pounce as an Interrupt. The extra 5% movement and 10 HPS is better than 200 damage for an ability that I don't use yet. At level 16 you start having enough mana to level up Pounce without having to get another helm so that's when I start investing in it. 

Healing Wind is the REASON you play Sedna. It's also why you usually get Blood with her (on top of the fact you usually get Currency and also the fact you're focused a lot). 

Always get Healing Wind. It takes a bit of practice to learn how to be dependent on it. 

Magnificent Presence is an underrated ability. It's "only" a 7/12/17 reduction on cooldowns, but once you factor in Celerity flags or Staff of Re newel it gets insane. A Sedna + Frost Nova III TB with both Celerity flags can permanently render opposing demigods unable to use their skills because of the cooldown reductions.

5 second Silences every 10 seconds effectively halves the rate you can use abilities, and you're also getting stunned every 10 seconds from Frost Nova, Foul Grasp and Boulder Roll. You get Penitenced and Spat on every 5 seconds. If you push too far to chase the Sedna, she will just Heal every 5 seconds (faster than you can cast 00spells) and her teammates will just pound you. And you're not getting heals from your own monks on top of this... 

Max'd out MP is also what makes Pounce actually "decent". A 1000 damage nuke every 5 seconds is pretty good. 

It also has the benefit of slightly increasing your monk's hp, which makes them harder to kill with AoE. 

Since Sedna doesn't really have a great minion build, Morale is never a good choice. 

Child's Life SOUNDS good but it isn't... if you're under 30% HP you're about to die or about to heal yourself, or you're on a Sigil in which case 50% more hps isn't that great when most of your hps is coming from huge monk heals, not any hp regen items you have. 

Inspiring Roar isn't very useful at all. Yay your monks and Siege demolishers move faster and have dodge? Now, if it improved HER speed as well, it could be useful. But it doesn't.

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IV. Metagame

---

When to use Sedna:

Sedna is a soft-counter to UB (when played properly and assuming UB never gets fed) and can contend with Erebus and Oak for most of the game, which means she is fine to use it substitution for Erebus, for example. See dealing with a minion Erebus and Oak below. 

However, Sedna is destroyed by Rook. In every way. I cannot think of any more of an unfair match up at every stage of the game than Rook v Sedna. Maybe UB v DA but DA's level 15 isn't too bad against a UB, even with Acclimation. The problem is that Sedna lacks mid-game armor compared to most other characters, she has no AoE that does anything more than tickle towers (which also makes it hard for her to farm), and she has no way to kite a Rook in his farm or kite his towers. 

This is why I hate Rook more than the combined hatred Teseer and Thundercles have of UB. I loath him because he has destroyed so many of my games -.- In general, it is a poor idea to go Sedna if there is an enemy Rook on the other team unless you have a Rook on your team (and even then...). To this day I have no idea on how to beat a good Rook as Sedna. Speed doesn't work, Cloak doesn't work, minions don't work, Pounce-builds don't work (though they tend to work better than my standard build). 

The only major contribute you can do is run in there and Silence as everyone ports in to gank the Rook-gankers and buy you all time to run away... as you die ;;

However, you can use Sedna against pretty much everyone else. In a UB-Ereb-Oak game she is best as a substitute for Erebus. Sedna has great synergy with both UB and Oak. Again, Oak + Sedna is my favorite combination to use. 

Sedna has poor Synergy with Regulus (not enough damage output for Reg's snipe to matter), Queen (2x Support isn't a great idea), DA (not enough AoE, get raped by minions).

Sedna has fantastic Synergy with UB (a standard combo), Oak (Heal + Shield means it's hard for enemies to focus on anyone. 2x General means awesome monk heals. 5 second Pent is brutal) and TB (covers a lot of her flaws, and Sedna covers a lot of his flaws). 

Sedna can work with Rook, Occulus, Erebus, but I don't feel like it's her best roles, or someone else can do it better. 

---

Dealing with minion builds:

Sedna is vulnerable to minion builds since she lacks an effective AoE. Heal IV does 200 damage which is laughable at that stage in the game and comes rather late into the game. 

Since most players know this, they are more likely to do minion builds against you. Which sucks because minion builds were initially developed by commies. 

So how do you deal with it? 

Prioritize Inner Grace and Healing Wind (ditch Silence and Pounce). Run around and away from the minions (they mostly can't chase you while you are moving). Don't get any mana items and instead get Journeyman's as soon as you can. 

When fighting a minion build, back off of the flag. Use any low-level minion idol to farm (you get gold from them as long as you're roughly the distance from the creeps as you are from the corner-tower on Cataract to the HP flag). Run around in circle and avoid the minions. Let the minion user get confident, stand on a flag, and then RUN to him. Usually you'll force them right off before they can cap. If you get Wand of Speed this becomes super-simple. You'll frustrate them, and you'll gain more valuable gold and XP. 

But you're really on the time-clock. They will slowly tear down everything and then chase you around the map if you show yourself, or push your portals, or attack your citadel. You'll need to get units out as soon as you can. Try to always hold flag advantage (something minion players like to do is chase you home with minions while they capture middle - this is why speed is useful) and try to get catapults out as soon as you can. Minion builds are rarely equipped to deal with catapults (or Giants). 

---

Dealing with kiting:

The flag trick I mentioned earlier is also how you deal with ranged characters kiting you (Reg, Occulus, TB, Queen). I call this tactic "pinning" because you "pin" them to the flag. If they want to kite you, they'll have to stand on that flag. If they do that, they turn it yellow. If they do that, you'll come kill them and take their XP and gain a level advantage. If they decide to stop getting pinned, your Gunners will farm for you and you'll still get full gold and XP (more or less) from the creep waves. But, if you do this BE SURE you'll win. This is especially risky to do on the HP flag (and that's usually the flag you are pinning them too). But, you can usually do it to most ranged characters and the ones you can't usually would have been able to beat you anyway. 

---

Role/Powerlevels throughout the game:

Early Game (WS 1-3. Levels 1-5):

Sedna has a strong early game and you can usually get the HP flag from most people and win the early-engagement as well. Unlike most generals, I don't purchase a mana post at level 1 and usually just try to get by without. If you ever get pushed off of a flag by someone with a pot, just back up, let them have it, wait to level 5 (HW II) then go take it from them. 

The Sedna + A v G + A combination I struggle with early game is a Sedna + UB v Ereb + UB. Be extremely careful at level 4 since Heal II cannot overcome Spit II + Bite II and they can be aggressive and chase you into towers because they are both fast. 

Make sure to buy Currency. Very few matchups will dictate otherwise (having a Reg on your team)

Mid Game (WS 4-6. Levels 6-8):

Sedna has a weak-ish mid game. The problem is usually her opponent's ability to focus fire has increased faster than her health pool and her level of heal, on top of being naturally crippled from buying Currency. Just play careful and let them burn mana on you (beware of stuns), then regen with HW, then come back. Don't get over confident and watch for sigils. 

Mid-Late Game (WS 6-8. Levels 9-10):

Now you've caught up to the incoming damage. This is the time frame where I think Sedna is overall strongest. You have a large heal, you've got good items and your allies have a good mana and health bar to where engagements are long and furious enough for Healing Wind II and Counter Healing to really matter. 

Late Game (WS 8-10. Level 11-13):

Catapults coming out is a pain, but it's usually mitigated by the fact that you're getting your own Priests out (which also heal and are affected by Healing Wind). Silence is now long and you have enough mana to use it. Sigils are now commonplace and Silencing sigils will usually earn you a kill. Sedna is still pretty good, but I wouldn't "pin" anymore (nor is it usually worth it at this stage of the game).

End Game (WS 10+ Level 14-16): 

Once Giants comes out, Sedna's role dramatically changes. She's no longer able to really hold a lane 1v1 against much of anyone. However, she is still very strong in combat... the creeps just need to be removed. This is usually why she'll be tagging along with someone.

Because of this, her levels will start to lag behind, which means she gradually gets weaker and weaker, spending more on sigils to stay alive, which continues to make her weaker. 

However, if someone can deal with the creeps (TB in particular) she can work her magic and win you 2v2 and 3v3 engagements. She is still very strong 1v1 outside of a creepwave (XP flag), so encourage trying to fight over that. 

You have a slight advantage in porting. Your TPs and locks come off of cooldown slightly faster than everyone else's so try to force people to port as much as they can. 

Artifact Stage (Level 17+):

Now that you are leveling up pounce people will tend to be surprised at your damage output. Engagements by this time usually focus mostly on nuking one person as fast as you possibly can: Silence helps you win those fights and Pouncing for 1000 hurts. You can Pounce - Silence and be ready to interrupt anything again when it comes off.

However, you're still going to be focused and you really are going to need to stack HP. Once you sell NR for Girdle of the Giants and have Orb of Defiance you should be golden. Girdle also lets you finally contest people again in creep waves since you can fight enemy giants and demigods at the same time (though don't get over confident and watch out for the Creep Masters: Oak {Surge}, TB, Occulus). 

However, the longer the game drags on the harder it'll be for you. Even a 1k pounce every 5 seconds tickles someone once they have over 8k hp. 

---

 

V. Handling 1v1 and 2v2 Lane Skirmishes

 

 

 

(To be filled in)

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VI. Notable Thoughts from other players

(To be filled in)

---

VII. Replays

(To be filled in)
God that is really long. You made it!

 

I'll probably continue to update this with information or important discussion that comes up in this thread.

How Priests/Monks Work (VITAL for a Sedna):

Every 5 seconds, monks do a for-unit-in-range check. 

First, it will check for allied demigods. If it finds a damaged demigod, it will heal 10/12/13/15% of their max hp. If they are buffed by Healing Wind II, then they heal 15/17/19/22% of their max hp. It will then apply a debuff to the healed demigod that lasts 8 seconds and prevents them from receiving heals from MONKS OF THE SAME LEVEL. This means that both a Cleric and a Monk can heal the same demigod twice. But 2 Monks cannot. 

For this reason, if you are a general and there is a Sedna on your team, you should not purchase Monks as your first purchase. Instead, buy Banded + Scaled Helm, go farm on the mana side and have Sedna split her monks. Once you have 1500 gold, go purchase Clerics and give HER a Cleric. 

High Priests only heal 1% more than Clerics (an 8.3% improvement, ignoring their extra HP, armor and damage). For Sedna, they heal 2% more than Clerics (an 11.8% improvement). Bishops heal 2% more than High Priests (a 15.4% improvement). For Sedna, they heal 3% more than High Priests (a 15.8% improvement).

To maximize your % improvement, if there are 2 generals on your team, the Sedna should ALWAYS get the High Priests, and the other general should get Bishops. Never ever ever the other way around. (11.8 + 15.4) > (8.3 + 15.8). (12.9% more efficient).

The exception to this is if there is an enemy Sedna. In this case, stick with Monks/Clerics instead of High Priests/Bishops. 

If a Priest doesn't find a damaged demigod in range, it will then check itself to see if it is damaged. If it is and will not be "overhealed" (eg, if they only lost 5 hp, and the Monk heals for 200, there isn't much point for it to be healed since it will "overheal" by 195 hp). Priests heal for 200/230/260/290. If it won't overheal, it will heal itself.

Finally, it will go through all the regular units (including other monks), and check to see if they are damage and, if they are healed, will be "overhealed. This means that higher-level'd priests will less often "waste" their heals on grunts because it is easier for them to overheal. 

What this means:

In a 1v1 situation, 2 monks will usually be able to "optimally" heal the Demigod every 8 seconds, even with AoE abilities (because one monk will heal the other, which will then heal the demigod once the debuff expires). However, if there is only 1 monk, it is very susceptible to AoE. Any decent AoE (over 200) will reduce the frequency of the heals by 25% (from every 8 seconds to 10 seconds. It will heal the Demigod, apply the 8 second debuff. 5 seconds later it will heal itself. Then it has to wait 5 seconds to heal you). 

This is one of the reasons why it is worth it to "tag" the enemy monks with your monks, and one of the reasons why NR is so useful for Sedna, even one with Counter Healing. 

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July 20, 2010 8:05:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for posting this Hedgie, always looking for tips on how to play Sed.

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July 20, 2010 9:03:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No Journeymans or Hungarlians, ever?  I find Sedna to be irresistibly sexy when she's not only providing me with healing wind but a -25% mana aura.  Also I haven't played a ton of games that had you as Sedna in them, but it has to be at least 10, and you've never gotten Orb of Defiance you liar!   Maybe you could demonstrate how to use it with a replay from one of those 4 sedna games you won tonight? 

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July 20, 2010 10:00:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great guide, Hedgie. Thanks. I don't play Sedna much but this helps me understand her a lot better. And it is great to see any guides written with the current meta-game in mind.

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July 20, 2010 6:19:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting GM-McShane87,
No Journeymans or Hungarlians, ever?  I find Sedna to be irresistibly sexy when she's not only providing me with healing wind but a -25% mana aura.  Also I haven't played a ton of games that had you as Sedna in them, but it has to be at least 10, and you've never gotten Orb of Defiance you liar!   Maybe you could demonstrate how to use it with a replay from one of those 4 sedna games you won tonight? 

I don't like speed stacking... it's a personal thing, even though I do know it is viable, espiecially on 2v2. I tend to only get it against minion builds or if the other team has it and my other teammates are slow or have no interrupts (Queen, Rook, etc). If I'm floating that 6500 g I'd usually get Orb instead and then start saving for Girdle of the Giants.

My opinion on Journeyman's is you can drop it in exchange for Scailmail, but you can't really drop any other slot in your inventory

I do pick up Hungarlians from time to time but I find that other people tend to get it before me, and 2x Hungarlian is sort of useless. If I have mana-issues at level 18 when I have Pounce maxxed out then I'll pick up Hungarlians. But, typically I play with Thunder and Hungarlian's is "his" item. 

I pick up Orb pretty late, not like how Orcun gets it super early. Usually around/after Giants and usually only if I'm not locking down portals and stuff much. Basically, my logic is that I'm never going to get your portal (since you're good) and Orb lets me stall a pretty damn long time over a flag, which can let an ally port. I did get Orb in the third game, I think

I'll probably post up my other builds that I use in certain situations over the next few days... but they are pretty specialized. Mostly changes related to Rook/Occulus/Sedna where going that straight build may not be quite as effective.

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July 20, 2010 7:31:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog,

I pick up Orb pretty late... Basically, my logic is that I'm never going to get your portal (since you're good)

Oh well thanks, how nice of you to say. 

But now you're just being deceitful again, why is Thunder getting Hungarlians with his blade of the serpent TB?  Tell the imaginary Thunder who does this that he is crazy.

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July 20, 2010 9:46:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Most TBs, even BotS tend to run one helm. I'm confused by it as well, but... it's what everyone says to do! 

TBs tend to be rolling in gold anyway at that stage of the game... It's only 3k I think if you sell Vlemish. 

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July 20, 2010 9:52:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting GM-McShane87,

But now you're just being deceitful again, why is Thunder getting Hungarlians with his blade of the serpent TB?  Tell the imaginary Thunder who does this that he is crazy.

ROFL that's what I thought too.

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July 20, 2010 11:02:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

added builds, cleaned up formatting.

Will add last section tomorrow, then clean it up again probably the day after. 

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July 20, 2010 11:14:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

attaboy hedgie - my favorite is the batshite crazy speed assassin build though, which is a little different, but only works when you can solo. 

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July 21, 2010 12:22:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting GM-McShane87,

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 4
I pick up Orb pretty late... Basically, my logic is that I'm never going to get your portal (since you're good)

Oh well thanks, how nice of you to say. 

But now you're just being deceitful again, why is Thunder getting Hungarlians with his blade of the serpent TB?  Tell the imaginary Thunder who does this that he is crazy.

I think Hedgie and I tend to get into late game "Giant Attrition Wars" more than most people due to our playing styles and demigod choices.

When spamming Frost Nova III, Fire Nova II, and RoI IV, you actually can run out of mana way too often if you never get Inspirational Flame.  Remember, theres not always an enemy creep wave there when you need one...

Hungarling's is definitely a lower priority late game item than Journeyman's and some others, but I do remember one game in particular thinking "Jesus... what do we have to do to win this $%#@ing game!?"  Bought Hungarling's and game over in a few minutes... might have been a coincidence, or it might have been completely non-stop, magnificent presence enhanced ability spam after upgrading my facegaurd to a crown.

 

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July 21, 2010 12:18:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hedgie, I hope you don't mind this post.  It's my current build and it would be better to consolidate it into this guide than having a separate post.  If you want me to post it in another thread, I'll erase the response.

 

Blood-Tank:

(See above)

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July 21, 2010 3:09:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I welcome your feedback, SaulTigh. I know you're one of the few other people who main Sedna so I certainly appreciate your input. I'll put it into the OP now. I do usually pick up Bishops as my first purchase against super-AoE 2v2 teams (Occ, TB, Queen)

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July 21, 2010 3:24:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog,
I welcome your feedback, SaulTigh. I know you're one of the few other people who main Sedna so I certainly appreciate your input. I'll put it into the OP now. I do usually pick up Bishops as my first purchase against super-AoE 2v2 teams (Occ, TB, Queen)

 

Thanks!  I trimmed down my OP, now that it's in your main.

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July 22, 2010 12:44:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great post hedgie, thanks!

I have a quick question for you.  3v3 cataract 3 generals on your team.  Sed gets high priests, oak gets bishops.  What do you recommend the occulus get?(clerics or bishops)

Thanks!

j

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July 22, 2010 2:52:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

One of the most comprehensive guides I have ever seen for a DG.  Thanks for your efforts!

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July 22, 2010 7:04:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Jongalt26,
Great post hedgie, thanks!

I have a quick question for you.  3v3 cataract 3 generals on your team.  Sed gets high priests, oak gets bishops.  What do you recommend the occulus get?(clerics or bishops)

Thanks!

j

Assuming there is no enemy Sedna, Bishops. (Otherwise do monk,monk,cleric). Since you're going to be attached with one person, the 2x Bishops will almost never be together, which means the second person is benefiting more from their Bishops (instead of Clerics). The only time that you're going to be "inefficient" is when you have all three of you together. But then you have 4 Bishops to cover 3 people, plus 2 High Priests. 4 Bishops can optimally heal 3 people, especially once AoE gets in the monk-mob and forces them to heal themselves, and probably better than having the 2 Clerics.

On the other hand, 2x Bishops + High Priests is a LOT of gold. I would usually say it's better to just get units instead.

How it would work is (assuming no enemy Sedna):

Sedna buys monks. Oak + Occulus gets items (Occ on mana side).

Occulus gets Clerics. Oak buys mana items and saves for bishops (2 sets of monks are good enough for now)

Sedna sells monks to get High Priests. Oak buys Bishops.

That way the only "wasted" gold is Sedna's sold monks.

Against an enemy Sedna:

Sedna + Occulus get monks. Oak gets items (Occ on mana side).

First shop, Oak gets Clerics.

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July 22, 2010 8:45:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Silence is probably the strongest level 5 skill in the game, in my opinion.

I agree - and I'd take it a step further - It's probably the best skill in the game hands down as it pretty much instantly stops sigils from being cast, shields from going up, etc.  A good player that knows when to cast silence makes senda incredibly powerful. 

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July 22, 2010 9:59:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,

Silence is probably the strongest level 5 skill in the game, in my opinion.

I agree - and I'd take it a step further - It's probably the best skill in the game hands down as it pretty much instantly stops sigils from being cast, shields from going up, etc.  A good player that knows when to cast silence makes senda incredibly powerful. 

Power of the Tower.

Towers are pretty much invincible and deal great dps early game.

Tons of towers mid game allow a rook to hold a lane infinitely against non AoE characters.

Instant teleport spots through towers completely change the late game, and a tower farm can hold a portal very nicely.

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July 22, 2010 10:43:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Splitshadow,

Quoting OMG_pacov, reply 17
Silence is probably the strongest level 5 skill in the game, in my opinion.

Power of the Tower.

Towers are pretty much invincible and deal great dps early game.

Tons of towers mid game allow a rook to hold a lane infinitely against non AoE characters.

Instant teleport spots through towers completely change the late game, and a tower farm can hold a portal very nicely.

NOT A LVL 5 SKILL DOESN'T COUNT

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July 22, 2010 10:56:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Splitshadow,

Quoting OMG_pacov, reply 17
Silence is probably the strongest level 5 skill in the game, in my opinion.

I agree - and I'd take it a step further - It's probably the best skill in the game hands down as it pretty much instantly stops sigils from being cast, shields from going up, etc.  A good player that knows when to cast silence makes senda incredibly powerful. 
Power of the Tower.

Towers are pretty much invincible and deal great dps early game.

Tons of towers mid game allow a rook to hold a lane infinitely against non AoE characters.

Instant teleport spots through towers completely change the late game, and a tower farm can hold a portal very nicely.

You still have to keep investing in it. 1 point in towers does not have the same effect at level 20 at it does level 1.

1 point in Silence continues to scale as your opponents go from 5 to 20, because abilities and sigils and ports are always used and become more and more effective (making preventing them more powerful). The only time it is stops scaling is when auto-attack starts going off the charts very late game when you are artifact stacking. Other Level 5 skills don't scale to quite the same level except perhaps Surge of Faith. Not to say that other level 5's are bad (Batswarm, Boulder Roll and Grasp), just that they scale differently and most require additional points invested in them to continue to be as useful.

Yes, towers are strong. Very strong, no one doubts that. But it requires a heavy investment of skill points into a skill line that starts suffering once Catapults come out and as people begin to get more and more hp and armor. Towers are probably one of the strongest skill trees in the game. But it doesn't scale the same as Silence, instantly disqualifying it from the "best".

After all, what if there was a level 5 ability that let you INSTANTLY kill ANYONE on the map (in line of sight) for 1 mana. However, it only worked while you were level 5 and while you had that ability, you passively gained 10 XP per second. Most powerful skill in the game? Probably. But does it scale? Not at all. So probably not the best skill is it?

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July 23, 2010 12:50:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

..... ...... so like.. as long as you could see someone you could kill them?  kinda like snipe?  If so, then yes, definitely best skill in game.  3 insta kills is win, or else you could just take down multiple towers early on w/out fearing someone comes.  But I see where you're coming from

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July 23, 2010 7:28:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

After all, what if there was a level 5 ability that let you INSTANTLY kill ANYONE on the map (in line of sight) for 1 mana. However, it only worked while you were level 5 and while you had that ability, you passively gained 10 XP per second. Most powerful skill in the game? Probably. But does it scale? Not at all. So probably not the best skill is it?

Frankly, that depends on the cooldown. You could cap portals and tear down all their towers and win all your fights at level 5.

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July 23, 2010 12:46:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would still say the best L5 ability is DA's shadow swap.  When used correctly it is utterly devastating and impossible to counter.

'Correctly' is the operative word, though.  Using shadow swap badly will usually result in the DA getting killed, where using Silence incorrectly just wastes mana.

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July 23, 2010 3:56:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't know about most powerful ability but swap is definitely the most versatile ability. Silence is the one ability that negates sigils and those are the most powerful item in the game so if used correctly I might give it to silence just cause of that. 

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July 23, 2010 5:22:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Swap can be well countered by the two instant ranged interrupts, DF and Pent.

Nothing counters Silence because its counters everything.  You can also overlap it with stuns without getting the "immune" sign even though its essentially a stun itself... and the longest possible stun at that.

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